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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: agray1949 on Thursday 05 April 18 16:17 BST (UK)
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I am currently researching my 3 x great grandmother Jean Milne who I think was born in 1794 in Rhynie & Essie Aberdeenshire. Parents Alexander Milne & Christain Cummine.
I know she married George Kelman in 1814 & had 4 children in Rhynie & Essie between 1814 & 1824 (so am assuming that is where she was born)
The 1841 census shows her husband George living at Belhinney, Rhynie & Essie with his father William & his daughter Christian but there is no mention of Jean.
I am assuming she died between 1824 ( youngest son James) & 1841 when the census was taken.
Several family trees show her as dying at Keig, Aberdeenshire in 1841 but I have found an entry from a booklet about Kirkyards of Keig & the Jean Milne there looks to have been married to Peter McCombie.
I am trying to find a death or burial information as I do not trust family trees to be always correct.
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JEAN MILNE GEORGE KELMAN Married 9/04/1814 Rhynie and Essie
Children: Alexander 1814, Christen 1818, George 1820, James 1824
1841 – George, Christen & Jean age 9 assume granddaughter. James age 17 in the area. George junior not on 1841 but in area 1851. Alexander?
However there are no death records for Rhynie and Essie 1794 – 1854 on SP, so Jean could have died there. It might be possible to find a burial book at the local history library?
Jean Milne was a common name and there were a large number of marriages.
A Peter McCombie married a Jean Milne Dec 1789 Lonmay, they had 3 daughters, 1 son, 1 unknown born there
Another Peter McCombie also married a Jean Milne 10 April 1826 Coull.
No children noted in Scotland.
No death records for Keig 1774 – 1854 on SP. So the record for Jean buried there probably came from the booklet.
Colin
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Thanks Colin
I have a list of all the Jean/Jane Miln/Milnes who died between 1824 & 1841 so i will have to go through them & try & work out which ones died near to Rhymie & Essie & hopefully one of them will be the answer.
I will also try to get up there sometime to have a good search in local libraries for any more info.
There was another son William who was born in 1816 which I have just found out about.
Alan
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I have just had a thought from another source that a Jane Milne died in Keith 27/4/1841 which was just before the 1841 census.
This could possibly be correct & that George was staying with his father, daughter & grandson at Rhynie at the time of the census.
Does anyone have any information regarding this Jane which could contradict my reasoning.
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The online index to the MI booklets published by ANESFHS confirms that the Jean Milen in Keig is on a stone that also mentions Peter McCombie.
SP has a burial of Jean Milne in Keith on 27 April 1841, but there's no corresponding listing on LIBINDX, so there isn't a stone. But why would someone who spent all their life in Rhynie and Essie suddenly go and die in Keith? It's not exactly next door, and the rest of the family were still in Rhynie and Essie, so it doesn't make sense.
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Thanks Forfarian,
I am just trying to eliminate any instances where I can & all suggestions are welcome.
At present I am looking at a death between 1824 (last child born shown on OPR) & 1841 census.
Various trees have another 2 daughters born in 1826 & 1831 which if true would narrow the search even more but no one that I have contacted has any details of births & I cannot see them on the OPR which is strange if all the other children are shown.
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Various trees have another 2 daughters born in 1826 & 1831 which if true would narrow the search even more but no one that I have contacted has any details of births & I cannot see them on the OPR which is strange if all the other children are shown.
Maybe Jean, aged 9 in 1841, is the one born in 1831?
On the other hand, the FreeCEN transcription of the 1841 has three separate households containing a Kelman at Belhinney. One has Willm Kelman, 85, George Kelman, 50, Christian Kelman, 20, and George McLean, 2. The second has Christian Grant, 80, Margt Milne, 50 and Jean Kelman, 9. The third has George Meldrum, 55, Jane Meldrum, 60 and Ann Kelman, 15. James Kelman, 17, is at Smithstown and Margt Kelman, 40, is at Bruntland.
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Thanks Forfarian,
I have not used Freecen before but looking at what you have said it looks really helpful.
The entry with Willm Kelman 85, George Kelman 50, Christian Kelman 20 & George McLean are the correct ones as far as my ancestors go with George being my 3 x great grandfather.
Looking at another tree I saw that Jane 1831 married a John Shand in 1860 at Fordyce, Banffshire. So I took the plunge & ordered a copy of the marriage cert. from S/P which shows her father as George Kelman Feur (I think) & her mother as Margaret Kelman, maiden name Milne, deceased. Could this be a mistake or an alternative for Jean. Jane Shand allegedly died in 1917 in Toronto, Canada.
Interestingly one of the other families mentioned in the 1841 census at Belhinnie had a Jean Kelman 9, living with Margt. Milne 50.
Could there be a connection or coincidence as I could not see a marriage for a Margaret Milne & George Kelman between 1810 & 1830.
The other daughter Ann born 1826 apparently died in 1910 in Glasgow having worked as a servant/maid in Oyne Aberdeenshire most of her life. This is from another tree again (with census transcripts) & also the death register does not show a mother's maiden name so I am not sure if it will help as her parents may not have been known to the informant. (Curiosity will probably get the better of me later & I will get the death cert.)
If Jean/Jane was the daughter of George Kelman & Jean Milne then my search for a death for Jean Milne will now be narrowed down to between 1831 & 1841. Apparently there are cash books which may have an entry for a mortcloth at Rhynie between 1823 & 1835 so fingers crossed I may get lucky there.
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the marriage cert. from S/P which shows her father as George Kelman Feur (I think) & her mother as Margaret Kelman, maiden name Milne, deceased. Could this be a mistake or an alternative for Jean.
It's possible.
Jane Shand allegedly died in 1917 in Toronto, Canada.
What does the Canadian death certificate say her parents' names were?
The other daughter Ann born 1826 apparently died in 1910 in Glasgow having worked as a servant/maid in Oyne Aberdeenshire most of her life. This is from another tree again (with census transcripts) & also the death register does not show a mother's maiden name [/quote]If you mean the deaths index on SP, mothers' maiden names were not originally included in the index until 1974. SP has been gradually adding mothers' maiden names to the early death indexes but they have only got to about 1870 so there are about 100 years of deaths with no mother's maiden surname in the index. In most cases the information is on the certificate so if I were you I would get that certificate.
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I am not sure about how I would get the Canadian death cert. but the one for Ann in 1910 I did decide to get it & it showed her as a former servant (single). Her parents were shown as George Kelman & Jane Mill both deceased. Strangely the informant was her son * Lawson of 456 Gairbraid road.
So this looks like a good match & now I have a bit more to go on when looking for the mortcloth details.
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I am not sure about how I would get the Canadian death cert.
Ontario deaths 1869-1937 are at www.familysearch.org
the one for Ann in 1910 I did decide to get it & it showed her as a former servant (single). Her parents were shown as George Kelman & Jane Mill both deceased. Strangely the informant was her son * Lawson of 456 Gairbraid road.
Yes. Mill and Milne are interchangeable.
The 1915 valuation roll (on SP) lists James Lawson as the tenant of 456 Gairbraid Street, Glasgow.
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The Margaret Milne who is with Jean Kelman (b abt 1831) in 1841 looks like she died in 1861 in Rhynie, aged 73 - there's a death registration with mother's maiden name Cumming (sic). This seems way too much of a coincidence for this Margaret not to have been another daughter of Alexander Milne and Christian Cummine - so perhaps a sister to your Jean Milne?
This Margaret Milne appears at Balhinney in 1851 (aged 61) and 1861 (aged 72), unmarried, born Rhynie.
There are two baptisms for a Margaret Milne to Alexander Milne and Christian Cuming/Cummine in Rhynie - the first in 1789 and the second in 1791 - so we could assume that the first Margaret died.
I'm tempted to think that Jean Kelman, b 1831 was the illegitimate daughter of Margaret Milne and George Kelman - which would explain the absence of a marriage or baptism record...
Ruth
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The Canadian death certificate has blanks for her parents which is shame but I think she is the correct person.
Margaret Milne could very well be the sister of Jean but I will investigate some more.
I have a theory which is slightly different as regarding the birth of Jean.
What if her Georges wife Jean Milne died in infancy & Jean born 1831 went to live with her Aunt Margaret who appears to be living next door in Bellhinie in 1841. That could also explain why Ann was not at home with her father in 1841 although she was a servant for the Meldrums also in Rhynie.
I am now tempted to contact "Old Scottish.com" & get them to do a search in the cash books for 1831 - 1835 & see if there is a record for a mortcloth hire.
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The Canadian death certificate has blanks for her parents which is shame but I think she is the correct person.
Oh dear:(
Have you found her marriage certificate?
I have a theory which is slightly different as regarding the birth of Jean.
What if her Georges wife Jean Milne died in infancy & Jean born 1831 went to live with her Aunt Margaret who appears to be living next door in Bellhinie in 1841.
Possible.
That could also explain why Ann was not at home with her father in 1841 although she was a servant for the Meldrums also in Rhynie.
I don't think you can read anything into a teenage girl working in another household. It was very common indeed for girls to go into service when they were in their early teens, initially quite near home but further away as they got older.
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I did find the marriage cert. for Jane as shown earlier.
I also meant to say in my theory regarding Jean that if she went to live with her aunt when her mother died & was brought up by Margaret then she may have always thought of her as her mother & that is why it says Margaret on the marriage cert.
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I did find the marriage cert. for Jane as shown earlier.
So you did. Apologies.
I also meant to say in my theory regarding Jean that if she went to live with her aunt when her mother died & was brought up by Margaret then she may have always thought of her as her mother & that is why it says Margaret on the marriage cert.
Possible. But then would she not have questioned why her father and Margaret weren't living as man and wife?
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The 1915 valuation roll (on SP) lists James Lawson as the tenant of 456 Gairbraid Street, Glasgow.
I think this is James Lawson. He looks to have been the illegitimate son of Ann Kelman and George Lawson, carpenter. Born in Rhynie about 1846. He’s with his grandfather, George Kelman, and his aunt, Christian Kelman in Keith in 1851:
1851
Regent Street, Keith
Adam Beattie, 26, Head, Insch, Aberdeenshire
Christian Beattie, 27, wife, Rhynie, Aberdeenshire
George Maclean, 10, step-son, Rhynie, Aberdeenshire
Unnamed son, 1m, Keith, Banffshire
George Kelman, 62, Fa-law, Macduff, Banffshire
James Lawson, 5, boarder, Rhynie, Aberdeenshire
George Maclean is the same George Maclean that is with George Kelman and Christian Kelman in 1841 at Balhinney. Christian Kelman married Adam Beattie in 1850 in Rhynie.
Back to James Lawson, I can’t find him in 1861, but in 1864, he enlisted in the Gordon Highlanders, aged 18. He turns up again in the census in 1891 in Aberdeen, where he’s married to Jessie Forsyth, who he married in 1886 in Enzie, Banffshire - he was 40 and she was 23 - and two children, James and Jessie.
By 1901, the family are in Maryhill, and there are two more children, Elizabeth and Margaret. In 1911, they are at 456 Gairbraid St in Maryhill. There's a death for a James Lawson, 75, in Maryhill in 1920, which may well be him.
Ruth
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This has certainly expanded quite a bit from my original enquiry trying to find a date of death for Jean Milne.
Now that I am sure the 2 daughters Ann & Jean are correct I have narrowed my search of the Rhynie cashbooks to the years 1831 - 1835 (5 year searches).
The 1851 census I only had the Ancestry transcription which is pretty abysmal (quite often). There was a reference to a James Pawson which I did not take a lot of notice about originally but it now makes sense.
Adam Beattie must have been a fairly generous person having his father in law & 2 illegitimate children living under the same roof.
Where can I get any information about Belhinney, Rhynie & Essie from do you know
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Where can I get any information about Belhinney, Rhynie & Essie from do you know.
What sort of information are you looking for?
The 1855 valuation roll on SP lists George Kelman as tenant, Croft of Belhenny, Estate of Warthill. There are 10 tenants there and the proprietor is the Duke of Richmond. I believe that the estate papers of the Dukes of Richmond and Gordon are or were held at Goodwood House in the south of England, but I could be mistaken, or they might have been moved.
Photographs http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ4627 or (bigger images) http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=110437720
First edition of the six-inch Ordnance Survey map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.3381&lon=-2.8857&layers=5&b=1
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Basically what you have just said Forfarian. I wasn't sure whether it was just a house or street as there were a few names there in 1841.
I have looked at the recent photos & they are quite interesting.
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Basically what you have just said Forfarian. I wasn't sure whether it was just a house or street as there were a few names there in 1841.
No, not a street, definitely rural. Looks as if it was a farm that was divided into several crofts.
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Thank you.
I will let you know how I get on with the mortcloth search.
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Ruthleen,
Where did you get the information about James Lawson being the illegitimate son of Ann Kelman & George Lawson (carpenter) as I cannot see it on S/P.
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From his marriage to Jessie Forsyth in 1886:
'George Lawson, carpenter (journeyman)(deceased) and Ann Kelman, domestic servant'
Ruth
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Thanks Ruth.
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In my quest to find a date of death for Jean Milne which I believed to be between 1826 (birth of Ann) & 1841 (no entry in census) I decided on a search of the Rhynnie parish cash book to see if there was an entry for a mortcloth. I did not find anything for Jean but there were 10 entries for other Milne's.
22 August 1825 Sacramental Distribution to Janet Milne, Tuichens - 8 shillings (p.13)
22 April 1827 Distress payment to Isabel Milne, Old Meldrum,- 5 shillings (p 21)
22 August 1827 Distribution to Janet Milne, late in Tuichens - 7 shillings (p 23)
20 April 1828 Distribution to Isabel Milne as per day book - 5 shillings (p 27)
18 November 1828 Distribution to Janet Milne, Tuichens - 8 shillings (p 31)
21 May 1829 Distribution to Janet Milne, late in Tuichens - 18 shillings (p 37)
17 October 1830 Collection "Penalty Milne & Stuart" no amount entered (p 42)
12 June 1831 Collection "Penalty Milne & Stuart as per day book" - £1 (p 46)
22 August 1832 Distribution to Janet Milne 10 shillings (p 53)
1 December 1833 Distribution " by Do. [funeral] Do. [expenses] Janet Milne £1 (p 59)
If they are useful to anyone's research then be my guest.
Alan