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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: Adam Summerfield on Saturday 14 April 18 00:06 BST (UK)
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I've recently discovered that my grandmother's name was Florence Hargrave when she gave birth to my father in Drypool, Hull, 1947.
After searching BMD, her birth year was probably 1917. No middle name of hers is provided on my dad's birth certificate, so I assume she didn't have one.
Does anyone have any suggestions how I might pinpoint more details about her?
Something called the "Sutton Diocese" was also mentioned as being related to my father's birth in Hull, does anybody know what that is? Googling has provided me with nothing on that.
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Is any address shown for her on your fathers birth cert?
Was he adopted after birth? If so - has he ever applied for sight of his adoption records in case there are any more details about Florence?
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I see some info was given by you on this post from reply 178 onwards which mentions orphanage and adoption
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=268058.msg6280043#msg6280043
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Thanks Carole, yes my father has recently seen his birth certificate. There's no information about his father anywhere. We're waiting to hear back from social services to see if there's an address for the house she was at when she gave birth to him and if we can get her birth certificate too, but that might not happen. The only information that might relate to where he was adopted from (after birth) is "Drypool" and "Sutton Diocese".
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Might be best to wait and see whether there is any further info about Florence herself on the adoption records. If she was born 1917 she was 30 at the time of the birth and may not have been born in Hull - just went there to have her baby.
If your father has recently seen his birth cert - there should be an address where he was born and an address for Florence at the time of registration.
There is another birth in 1920 in Scarborough and a marriage there in 1952 - just a thought. That Florence died in 2005 in Scarborough
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The Florence Hargrave born in Hull in 1917 with mmn Robinson is likely to be a daughter of this marriage:
Ernest W Hargrave
Mary J Robinson
Jun qtr 1914 Hull 9d 525
Unfortunately the family appears to have suffered a major tragedy during the war as civilian casualties of enemy action on 19 March 1941. The following were all killed at 38 Lissett Grove (which as you will see was not their home address):
Ernest William Hargrave aged 50
Mary Jane Hargrave aged 48, wife
Doris Hargrave aged 19, daughter
Ernest William Hargrave aged 15, son
Stephen Hargrave aged 13, son
Jean Hargrave aged 11, daughter
All of 42 Watton Grove.
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Death notice: Hull Daily Mail, 21 March 1941
HARGRAVE - By enemy action, Ernest William, aged 50; also Mary Jane, aged 47, the dearly beloved wife of the above; also Doris, aged 19; Ernest William, aged 15; Stephen aged 13; Jean aged 12, daughters and sons. - The blow was hard, the shock severe. To lose all those we loved so dear. - Loving daughters Evelyn, Florence, Nancy, and in-law Bill, and Uncle Smithson. Good night, God bless. - Grandma, granddad, aunties and uncles, Beryl and Brian.
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I think “loving daughter Evelyn” was Sarah Evelyn Hargrave mmn Robinson, birth reg Mar qtr 1915 Hull.
Her marriage:
Sarah E Hargrave
William H P Hitchin <<< presumably “in-law Bill” from the death notice
Sep qtr 1935 Hull
Death registered in Beverley Dec qtr 1999 as Sarah Evelyn Hitchin, birthdate 4 Feb 1915.
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“Nancy”, another surviving daughter, may have been born under a variant first name in 1924.
(Further details deleted as I can see a marriage but not a death).
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Something called the "Sutton Diocese" was also mentioned as being related to my father's birth in Hull, does anybody know what that is? Googling has provided me with nothing on that.
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Hi Adam...As Sutton is village on the outskirts of Hull...it's most likely this:
https://www.achurchnearyou.com/church/19212/more-information/
http://www.suttonstjames.org/
Carol
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My goodness - thank you so much! I had already found her mother's maiden name was Robinson, but how did you find the rest!?
The Florence Hargrave born in Hull in 1917 with mmn Robinson is likely to be a daughter of this marriage:
Ernest W Hargrave
Mary J Robinson
Jun qtr 1914 Hull 9d 525
Unfortunately the family appears to have suffered a major tragedy during the war as civilian casualties of enemy action on 19 March 1941. The following were all killed at 38 Lissett Grove (which as you will see was not their home address):
Ernest William Hargrave aged 50
Mary Jane Hargrave aged 48, wife
Doris Hargrave aged 19, daughter
Ernest William Hargrave aged 15, son
Stephen Hargrave aged 13, son
Jean Hargrave aged 11, daughter
All of 42 Watton Grove.
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There is another birth in 1920 in Scarborough and a marriage there in 1952 - just a thought. That Florence died in 2005 in Scarborough
Thanks Carole, I had already found this and figured it might be her, but it's good to hear someone else also worked it out.
She married James Wright, but so far I haven't found any record of a Florence Wright living in Scarborough.
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I think “loving daughter Evelyn” was Sarah Evelyn Hargrave mmn Robinson, birth reg Mar qtr 1915 Hull.
Her marriage:
Sarah E Hargrave
William H P Hitchin <<< presumably “in-law Bill” from the death notice
Sep qtr 1935 Hull
Death registered in Beverley Dec qtr 1999 as Sarah Evelyn Hitchin, birthdate 4 Feb 1915.
Thank you, yes, this is what Ancestry.com appears to be telling me.
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If your father has recently seen his birth cert - there should be an address where he was born and an address for Florence at the time of registration.
At the moment we are waiting to hear back (possibly after many weeks) from a court whether it is known what Florence's birth date was and what her address was at the time of my father's birth (10 Oct 1947).
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https://www.achurchnearyou.com/church/19212/more-information/
http://www.suttonstjames.org/
Carol
Thanks Carol, that's quite close to Lissett and Watton Grove, where the family of the Florence Hargrave who was born in 1917 lived/died.
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If your father has recently seen his birth cert - there should be an address where he was born and an address for Florence at the time of registration.
At the moment we are waiting to hear back (possibly after many weeks) from a court whether it is known what Florence's birth date was and what her address was at the time of my father's birth (10 Oct 1947).
While you are waiting, there should (as Carole says) be useful address information on the certificate itself. If your father was not provided with a copy of it, it is open to you/him to order it from the GRO in the usual way, using the index information available from FreeBMD.
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I've determined that Florence Hargrave born in 1917, who's family was killed in the Blitz, was indeed my grandmother. Not any other Florence.
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That is good news (though a sad family story). Are you able to share with us how you have made the positive link? Obviously no need to say if it is too sensitive.
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“Nancy”, another surviving daughter, may have been born under a variant first name in 1924.
Nancy moved to France, her son died in a car crash 19 years ago. Could you tell me the details of her marriage certificate please?
Could you also link me to that Hull Daily Mail death notice too please?
Thanks, Adam.
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I can’t link to the Hull Daily Mail but you can find it in the newspapers on Findmypast.
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Nancy was born Annie W Hargrave, mother’s maiden name Robinson, Sep qtr 1924 Hull vol 9d p481.
She married Albert Hamon in Hull, Dec qtr 1945 vol 9d p683. You would need to order thr marriage certificate from GRO Online for more details.
For future reference you can get these and other index details from www.freebmd.org.uk.
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Nancy died last year in France. :( :'(
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That is good news (though a sad family story). Are you able to share with us how you have made the positive link? Obviously no need to say if it is too sensitive.
Yeah, some sensitive data. I saw a picture of someone, who I found thanks to the information you posted here, and he looks like my dad and brothers.
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[comment no longer necessary]
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[redacted]
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[redacted]
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Adam you need to delete the names of living people as it is against RootsChat privacy rules.
Carol
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I spoke to Beryl from the death notice on Sunday. Florence and their family ran into their neighbour's bomb shelter and they shouldn't have done. Florence broke her leg, the rest were killed.
I'm now interested in finding Harold Good, a wholesale merchant in Hull in the 1940s. Judging by Florence's diary, which I obtained on Sunday, he is my granddad.
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Maybe he was the H. Good from Hull born 1898, died Sep 1964.
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What amazing information :)
Maybe he was the H. Good from Hull born 1898, died Sep 1964.
No, that was a different Harold Good (builder’s labourer).
Harold Good, a partner in a wholesale grocer’s, was born 18 Dec 1890.
He married (1921 Sculcoates) Sarah H Thompson, born 2 Oct 1894.
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Possible death for Sarah H Good aged 54, Sep qtr 1949 Hull.
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Florence kept multiple letters written to her in December 1941 by a George who bought her a ring. She mentions a George in her diary in 1947 as well. In the 1941 letters, he gives his division:
"Same kid,
H.Q.R.A,
15(S) Division,
Home forces"
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That sounds a bit specialist - you might want to take that snippet to the Armed Forces board to see whether they can get anywhere with it. WW2 stuff still too recent to be easily researched, though.
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For some reason Florence kept the attached newspaper clipping in the same tin as her diary and the photos of my dad that my grandma sent her. Her family found the tin when she died and started looking for my dad. I'm going to have to upload it in two parts.
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Second part. The rest is all the names of business partners who went to the funeral.
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Probate was granted 2 Feb 1962 on the estate of Harold Good of Wincroft, Tanby Lane, Swanland, Yorkshire. he died at the Royal Infirmary (Sutton Branch), Kingston-Upon-Hull on 1 Feb 1861.
Executor: Mary Good, widow.
Effects: £24,427 14s.
He was aged 70 at death, consistent with the age of the Harold Good I mentioned at reply #29.
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I have found Harold Good b 18 Dec 1890 = Sarah H his wife b 2 Oct 1894 living at 3 The Oval, Kingston upon Hull in1939 No one living with them unfortunately.
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It seems like he had two wives in his life? I also found Sarah, who he married on 9 June 1921.
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The Sarah I mentioned was with him for the 1939 index - thats where I got the address from etc.
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Yes, if his executrix Mary Good was his widow (as opposed to a widow from elsewhere in the Good family) then he must have got together with her after Sarah’s likely death in 1949 - posted upthread.
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Thank you. It appears Harold married Mary Needler in 1953 in Leeds.
Harold also had a sister, Florrie Good, born 1895, who married the Reverend John Milton Borrow (born 1889) in 1932. They were present at Harold's funeral, and I found their names from the newspaper cutting my grandma kept.