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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: warpo on Tuesday 24 April 18 14:36 BST (UK)
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My nanna's brother was called George Eric Cook Wilmore. My nanna and all her siblings had the surname Wilmore as obviously it was their fathers name. However, George was born two years after the father Wilmore had died, so he couldnt have had the same father and must've been a step-brother. I assume he was named Wilmore after his mothers married name.
Father Wilmore died 9th July 1915.
George was born 30 Sep 1916.
Mother Wilmore married Whitney 29 June 1919.
Its the middle name Cook that intrigues me. I'll have his birth certificate in a couple of days but wondered peoples thoughts were on it.
Would Cook be considered a normal name, or would you think im right to think it is possibly a fathers name?
He was born to late to really be a Wilmore, and 2-3 years previous to marriage to Whitney.
Thanks in advance
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Yes it is possible that Cook is his birth father's name
But don't set too much store in finding any more info from his birth certificate -- for illegitimate births, the father's name can only be entered if he attended the registration of the baby along with the mother
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However, George was born two years after the father Wilmore had died, so he couldnt have had the same father and must've been a step-brother. I assume he was named Wilmore after his mothers married name.
If George was an illegitimate son of the mother's then George would have been a half-brother to the children from Wilmore marriage not step-brother.
You haven't mentioned the mother's name but the 1916 birth for George E.C. Wilmore gives mother's maiden name as Major (FreeBMD).
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I got started on this crazy game 3 years ago, trying to find out why my grandfather had an unusual middle name, Sedcole. Firstly I found out he was actually my great grandfather and then I found the unusual middle name was his mother's sister's husband's surname. They must have been desperate for names.
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If George was an illegitimate son of the mother's then George would have been a half-brother to the children from Wilmore marriage not step-brother.
You haven't mentioned the mother's name but the 1916 birth for George E.C. Wilmore gives mother's maiden name as Major (FreeBMD).
Yes half-brother. Sorry my bad. And yes his mother was Ethel Major. Married to Wilmore then remarried to Whitney a couple of years after becoming a widow.
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I got started on this crazy game 3 years ago, trying to find out why my grandfather had an unusual middle name, Sedcole. Firstly I found out he was actually my great grandfather and then I found the unusual middle name was his mother's sister's husband's surname. They must have been desperate for names.
My husband's grandfather also had his father's sister's husband's surname as a middle name
Tho as he was later heard to say "it never did him any good as they never left him owt"
In some cases a baby can be given a god-parents name -- I don't know if this is the case for my husband's grandfather
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But don't set too much store in finding any more info from his birth certificate -- for illegitimate births, the father's name can only be entered if he attended the registration of the baby along with the mother
How about George's marriage cert?
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Same will apply to the marriage certificate - it will greatly depend on what he knows about his birth father
He may give his step-father's name (Whitney)
He may give his mother's first husband's name (Wilmore)
He may give his birth father's name if he knows it
He may give a fictitious father's name
He may give no father's name at all
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My family have scots naming tradition where children inherit grandparents firsj name and surnames. So firstborn would be same as fathers fathers name s
Second born mothers father s names
Third after father
4th born son takes great grandfathers name
Looks like you already had Cook in the family
Do the other children have middle names ?
Could be following this pattern
Ore
were there any George or eric Cook something in the area at the time who could have been his dad ...check electoral rolls ....dna would be the ultimate proof .
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Well, his birth certificate came this morning. Didn't know you can get them for £6 as a pdf now.
I was so excited....
What was the Cook all about....
Really excited....
Forgot my password, had to reset it....
Eventually got the PDF, opened it....
Really excited....
Name of Father....
A Bloomin Line for no father recorded.
I'll try to get the Marriage Cert and see if that helps, else i'm out of options.
Thanks for all your replies everyone.
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Sadly I suspect that, if he was born to an extramarital relationship, the naming of his true natural father is the least likely scenario on the marriage certificate.
More likely will be either a blank again, or the use of the deceased Mr Wilmore’s details (making things look straightforward if he also used surname Wilmore), or the use of Mr Whitney’s details (if he had brought him up).
If Mr Whitney had been the natural father one would have expected the parents to marry sooner than 1919.
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Hi
Do you actually have Mr Wilmore's death certificate and not just a handed-down date?
Ray
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Yes, where did Frederick Alexander Wilmore die?
I see that he joined the Lincolnshire Regt on 31 Aug 1914, aged 29, and was discharged medically unfit (due to displaced cartilage) on 30 November 1914.
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Hi
I think that there is a possibility that he lived on.
Poss marriage to Alice E, child C......
Anyone else spot them on 1939 in Glanford?
Ray
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. . . . . and Alice's surname is ? :o
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Hmmm... no I think he died in the North Sea on 9 July 1915, according to GRO records of marine deaths.
Fred A Wilmore aged 30, born Canterbury, 2nd Engineer on the Yarmouth registered at Grimsby.
Died: North Sea, 9 July 1915, no cause stated.
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Quite happy to knock that family off
Well done for finding that.
R
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I can see that widowed mother might have this child, but this would have her pregnant six months after her husband died. Obviously it is possible, but sounds less common.
"..My nanna and all her siblings had the surname Wilmore"
What second given names do the other children have.....any?
On the birth certificate, 1916, where and when was the birth....where and when was the birth registered....who was the informant.
Have you located a christening record for George b. 1916?
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Frederick Alexander Wilmore committed suicide on the 9th July 1915. George was born 30th Sep 1916. Thats 14 months (certainly got over her husbands death quick). Definitely not the father.
This is the only child with Cook in the name. Children were:
Audrey Lillian Wilmore; Reginald Frederick Alexander Wilmore; Alice Ann Wilmore; George Eric Cook Wilmore.
When Ethel Wilmore nee Major married Whitney, they all became Whitney.
Living in Grimsby when Frederick died. Ethel went back to Kings Lynn where George was born in Fleece Yard, Friars Street.
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Hi
Frank, Ethel and Alex Whitney appear on 1939 register together.
Ray
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Warpo, your situation is not that rare. I have a widow giving birth to a son roughly 18 months after the death of her husband. Looking at photos, he looked very different to the other children, they were all fair while he was dark haired. He died in 1917 in WWI. Fortunately for me there are no descendants to have to explain the situation.
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Hi
Frank, Ethel and Alex Whitney appear on 1939 register together.
Ray
Yes they returned to grimsby
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Yes, perhaps Ethel did "get over" Frederick's death quickly in order to produce another child just 14 months after his death - she's definitely not the first to do that, nor the first to be duped by a male who was NOT a "gentleman". You also have to remember that she had 3 young children to look after, the eldest being 5, AND there was no welfare state to support the family.
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. . . . . she may have been the reason he committed suicide, as in that she was already in a new "relationship" ?
Ray
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Yes, Ray, another possibility.
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. . . . . she may have been the reason he committed suicide, as in that she was already in a new "relationship" ?
Ray
It has crossed our mind. Plus there was another fiasco going on with Fredericks father. I have about 4 possible reasons as to why he ended his life. Unfortunately, i'll never know.
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I'll try to get the Marriage Cert and see if that helps, else i'm out of options.
This is the only child with Cook in the name. Children were:
Audrey Lillian Wilmore;
Reginald Frederick Alexander Wilmore;
Alice Ann Wilmore;
George Eric Cook Wilmore.
When Ethel Wilmore nee Major married Whitney, they all became Whitney.
Not that these details help with finding out who might be his father ???
when Audrey L & Alice A married (1930 & 1932) their surname was WILMORE
when Reginald F A & George E married (both in 1941) their surname was WHITNEY
For info. note sure if you have these details so have posted just in case........
George Eric Cook Whitney Death Age: 64
Burial Year: 1981
Burial Place: North Thoresby, Lincolnshire, England
Cemetery: St Helen
Also his Wife Madge b1923 d1983 and son
https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=344117
Ethel b1890 d1957 & Frank Whitney b1895 d1964
https://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=384859
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Yes, perhaps Ethel did "get over" Frederick's death quickly in order to produce another child just 14 months after his death - she's definitely not the first to do that, nor the first to be duped by a male who was NOT a "gentleman". You also have to remember that she had 3 young children to look after, the eldest being 5, AND there was no welfare state to support the family.
.... and it was WW1. Life was short, no time to waste. It's possible the real father was a war casualty.
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George was born in 1916 at Fleece Yard Friars Street. Kings Lynn.
Just out of curiosity i saw on the 1901 census a William Ernest Cook born abt 1883 at Linays Yard. I cant see him in 1911.
Very good possibility, but I suppose I will never get to know.
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Sorry for dragging this out, but one final question please.
I was thinking it would be interesting to see the baptism record, but with him being born in 1916, records online seem to stop around the 1897-1900 years.
If I wanted to view his baptism record, would I need to travel to the parish personally. If so, how could I find out which church it would be in the first place?
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George was born in 1916 at Fleece Yard Friars Street. Kings Lynn.
Just out of curiosity i saw on the 1901 census a William Ernest Cook born abt 1883 at Linays Yard. I cant see him in 1911.
Very good possibility, but I suppose I will never get to know.
There's always DNA. My great great grandmother was Elizabeth Jane Uglow HAMLEY. Her mother's brother married an UGLOW the year after and we had our suspicions that one of her brothers might have been responsible. My mother took a DNA test on Ancestry and I ended up finding multiple matches to members of the Uglow family, although we may never know which brother was responsible. If a descendant ended up doing DNA and they get matches to members of the COOK family, especially the chap above named, you might find that you can put forward a likely theory.
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Sorry for dragging this out, but one final question please.
I was thinking it would be interesting to see the baptism record, but with him being born in 1916, records online seem to stop around the 1897-1900 years.
If I wanted to view his baptism record, would I need to travel to the parish personally. If so, how could I find out which church it would be in the first place?
Norfolk Record Office should be your first port of inquiry, to see what registers have been deposited there.
http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk
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Hi
So, she was in Grimsby around the time of conception?
Just recording that there is a George E Cook of the "right/slightly older" age in Grimsby in 1939.
I am not inferring that he is/was involved at all, and it is well after the event.
Just something for your notes pile.
Ray
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As George was born in Kings Lynn, I automatically assumed she went straight back to parents. I never thought she'd stay in Grimsby a little. Thank you for pointing it out, and your find of Cook in Grimsby.
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Sorry for dragging this out, but one final question please.
I was thinking it would be interesting to see the baptism record, but with him being born in 1916, records online seem to stop around the 1897-1900 years.
If I wanted to view his baptism record, would I need to travel to the parish personally. If so, how could I find out which church it would be in the first place?
Look at GENUKI website for churches in the area. Also county Online Parish Clerks project. Even if county OPC haven't yet transcribed baptisms for the years you want, the website may have information about churches such what years they were open. Do you know denomination of church other children were baptised at? Baptism entry may or may not give you any more information.