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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: iwccc on Tuesday 01 May 18 01:16 BST (UK)

Title: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Tuesday 01 May 18 01:16 BST (UK)
Does anyone have any ideas/clues about the widespread use of lead as roofing, pipes etc. in the 17/1800's in Britain.  How would it compare for costs against wages.  Why did it become such an easy target for stealing?  Was it put on roofs by roofing men or some other trade?   If it was roofing lead wouldn't that be hard to steal once it was put on the roof?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 01 May 18 10:30 BST (UK)
Plumbers fitted lead pipes and roofing.
The name plumber comes from the latin for lead; plumbum. Originally a plumber was a worker in/of lead.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 01 May 18 10:33 BST (UK)
Lead is easy to steal from roofs because you can cut it with a knife. It also weighs a lot so scrap price of quantity is high in comparison to other materials.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: cati on Tuesday 01 May 18 10:40 BST (UK)
Lead was used - until relatively recently, amazingiy enough! - for water pipes and small cast toys, eg toy soldiers, among other things.  It's quite a soft metal, so not too difficult to lever off roofs (she says from experience, hastening to add that I know this because dad's a plumber, not for any nefarious reason). It's also remarkably heavy, and most scrap dealers bought by weight, so quite a nice little earner...

Cati
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: stanmapstone on Tuesday 01 May 18 11:37 BST (UK)
From the Bury and Norwich Post - Wednesday 05 February 1845

Stan
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: stanmapstone on Tuesday 01 May 18 11:47 BST (UK)
From the Hull Advertiser and Exchange Gazette - Saturday 19 March 1803

Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 01 May 18 12:58 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lzp/
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Wednesday 02 May 18 13:02 BST (UK)
Thanks Youngtug,  I appreciate your two. posts.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Wednesday 02 May 18 13:03 BST (UK)
Sorry Youngtug,  Your 3 x posts!
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Wednesday 02 May 18 13:05 BST (UK)
Thanks Stanmapstone,   I am not sure what all these terms mean.  I guess it is different types of lead.
I appreciate your help
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Wednesday 02 May 18 13:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Cati,  I am glad that we have now worked out the danger of lead.   I guess the softness and easy cutting of lead made it an easy target for stealing.  The price seems to be good for resale.  No wonder it was a common thing for theft.  Thanks again
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 02 May 18 13:51 BST (UK)
Red and white lead  come in powder form. Red lead is lead oxide, white lead is lead carbonate. Both have many  uses. Litharge is also  a lead oxide. Black lead I think is another name for graphite, so not lead. Apart from graphite the others are highly poisonous and being in powder form dagerous to use.
When I was an apprentice we used red lead mixed with oil to make a thin paste which was used as a marker for bedding in metal surfaces but it as uses in pottery and glass making. White lead was used in paint and face makeup.  :o
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:00 BST (UK)
It was not until 1986 that lead solder was banned from being used on potable water supply pipes. If you had a heavy handed  plumber then there could be a large area of the inside of the pipe coated with lead solder. If every joint was the same you might as well have a lead pipe
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:13 BST (UK)
You also get Low Background Lead, Antimony Lead, Lead Came etc.
The price at present is about £1.00 per kilo. (I but several kilos per year for making fishing weights.)
When stolen, it is very easliy disguised due to it's low melting point, so it can be very hard to prove where it came from.

Malky
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:27 BST (UK)
Use smart water;https://www.ecclesiastical.com/churchmatters/churchguidance/churchsecurity/smartwater/general-information-faqs/index.aspx
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:33 BST (UK)
Roofing lead and lead flashing lead comes in several thicknesses [numbered] You buy it by the square foot. or metric equivalent.
A table of thicknesses and weights; http://chestofbooks.com/home-improvement/construction/plumbing/Plumbing-Estimates-Contracts/Estimating-Sheet-Lead-Work.html
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: Viktoria on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:40 BST (UK)
As an evacuee in Shropshire I lived in a lead mining village,the waste was all around us.
We actually played with the creamy white waste left after the ore was washed and ground( then smelted.) It made lovely mud pies.
Our food was grown in heavily contaminated soil as the fumes from the smelthouse blew all over the place when t he mine was still in production       
The cottage where I lived had the highest rate of contamination in the garden soil but we had lovely vegetables and fruit. We had no idea at the time.
Our drinking water came from "The level",a galvanised pipe running straight out of the mine adit.
It was "filtered through sand and charcoal and was icy cold and lovely,all through the year.
We carried it in buckets on a yoke over our shoulders,like a milk maid.
Tests done in the late 1950`s proved the very high level of contamination and it was banned, a big grille put cross the adit and it was chlorinated water from somewhere else. All the village mourned the lovely fresh taste.
The village had a good proportion of people who could be termed very intelligent,some good sensible practical people and only one young woman that I can recall who had some special needs.
Teachers ,nurses, osteopaths,builders Head teachers,,musicisns,farmers and University lecturers.A general cross section of careers.
My hypothyroidism seemingly is linked to the lead I came in contact with in my childhood.
How we survived I don`t know--.
I had a lovely childhood, lead waste and all.
My garden has lots of lovely stones,barytes and some galena pieces.All from the waste site near the crushing floor, some perhaps taken out by my G.Grandfather,a shot blaster.Circa 1866-1885
after which production slowed down somewhat.
We played on the mine site,jumped on the cage suspended over the shaft on a rusting cable(I shudder now )messed about on the little saddle tank engine,changed the points and danced on the crushing floor and slid down the rusty jigger grille which sorted the size of ore.
We hung from the hook on the crane whilst the big boys wound up the big hook up again on a rusting cable.
The mine had stopped production in the early 1900s.
It is a miracle we are still here to tell the tale.
Viktoria.

Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 02 May 18 14:45 BST (UK)
As you are specifically enquiring about the 1700-1800s, I think your answer could have something to do with firearms for war and hunting.  Every so often owners of antique blunderbuses, rifles and pistols will appear on antique roadshows and one of the gadgets shown is often a small portable mould for making leadshot/bullets by pouring molten lead into it.

Historically lead was used to make drinking cups which was overtaken by pewter when it was realised lead affected the brain, bones and all other organs of the body.  Unfortunately it was only a few decades ago that it was realised that ordinary household paint was having an adverse affect on children due to its content of lead.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: Old Bristolian on Wednesday 02 May 18 16:39 BST (UK)
I have many plumbers in my ancestry, going back to the 1760s. The earlier ones were normally all "plumbers and glaziers" - they worked on the leaded windows which were so common at the time owing to the cost of plate glass. They would also work on outside pipework and roofing as well as painting with white lead paint. Inside pipework was relatively uncommon in all but the wealthiest households.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Thursday 03 May 18 13:39 BST (UK)
thanks OldBristolian,  Good to learn about the work that was carried out by plumbers.  I appreciate your input.
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Thursday 03 May 18 13:41 BST (UK)
thanks Rena, Very interesting post.  I am actually interested in why lead was so often stolen.  It seems lots of things were made of lead - so hence a ready market for stolen property
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Thursday 03 May 18 13:42 BST (UK)
Hi Viktoria,  What an interesting post.  Thank you so much for sharing
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: iwccc on Thursday 03 May 18 13:44 BST (UK)
Hello Flattybasher9,  Thank you for your input to this post.  Very interesting.  I remember my Dad making what we call sinkers for fishing with lead in moulds.  I had forgotten about that. Good memories.  I appreciate your reply
Title: Re: The use & cost of lead
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 03 May 18 14:18 BST (UK)
I don't think cups/mugs were made from lead, it is too soft. Pewter used to be made with lead being a constituent of the alloy, some still are, even today. Acid drink or food will leach the lead from the vessel, also lead glazed pottery .