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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Ayashi on Wednesday 09 May 18 00:08 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather was a shipwright. I knew that he was involved with the admiralty during the war but had always assumed that he worked out of London, where he was before and after the war. The 1939 Register places him in a boarding house, 11 Marlborough St, in Bath, Somerset. My great grandmother and the two youngest children (the eldest three are serving) are in Cornwall with her sister.
I don't know a great deal about his wartime activities- just family rumour. The proverbial little birdie says that he was involved with PLUTO, outfitting the tug boat Britannic.
A quick Google didn't give me any useful results. Does anyone know anything about the admiralty dockyards in Bath? Apparently there was a big building but other than that I know nothing! Is there a link between Bath's shipyards and the Britannic?
His father and his son both served in wars and I have their service records and medals, but my great-grandfather, as a civilian, doesn't have those records.
Just wondered if anyone was knowledgeable on that area!
Thanks in advance
Ayashi
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Bath is about 22 miles from the nearest large body of water so I would assume that it was very unlikely to be an admiralty dockyard there.
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The two links below have information about the Admiralty moving ship design from London to Bath in WW2:
http://royalcrescentbath.co.uk/HistoryBathatWar.htm
http://www.coleshillhouse.com/admiralty-3-warminster-road-bath-auxiliary-unit-patrol.php
Tony
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There are/were a number of military, including naval, establishments in the Bath area, often engaged in classified operations. Is it possible he may have been involved in planning or research?
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Thanks all.
I'm not sure why I thought Bath was next to the sea, maybe the watery name! Obviously something was there.
Of course, it is entirely possible he moved elsewhere to work on PLUTO if he was involved in the physical side of things, I haven't yet found out where the ship side of things was based. The war was six years long after all! In an article in Norwood News in 1948 it says that Walter and his wife had lived at their address in Upper Norwood for sixteen years. Bath is a significant place in my family- after speaking to mum, turns out my great grandfather's third son also worked at the Bath admiralty and so did my grandmother- that's how my grandmother ended up meeting my grandfather (and the rest, as they say, is history).
If he was involved with the planning rather than the manual labour that is certainly an additional piece of the puzzle for his wartime career, but again I don't know if there is any way of actually finding out solid information on what he did. A lot of the time, including the 1939 Register and his son's marriage in 1948, Walter is down as a "civil servant" but other documents specify his ship work.
Shipwright apprentice Govt Dockyards (1911)
Shipwright HM Dockyard (1917 and 1919)
Assistant Naval Constructor- admiralty, retired (1953)
Assistant Naval Constructor (retired) (1978)
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An apprenticeship in those days in a specialised industry was an established career path, leading to management or technical specialist in design, so I see no reason why he should not have moved to bath for the duration of the war to work in the drawing office or similar work.
My relative followed a similar path in heavy electrical engineering, and on the railways it was almost the only way to become an engineering specialist or works manager.
Mike
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I believe that some of the design work for the Mulberry Harbours used in D-Day landings were designed at Bath. Kingswood School was taken over and used by the Admiralty for some of their design work on this project.
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There was family rumour that he was in line for a promotion that would have come with a knighthood except he was ineligible/blocked because he went to a public school. Could be nonsense of course. Or perhaps embellishing on the fact that he was involved in important work.
I haven't heard anything of Mulberry Harbours being mentioned but then again my mother wasn't even born when Walter died so her sisters or our cousins might have heard different things.
If he moved to Bath for the war, unless the newspaper was mistaken about how long they had lived continuously in Norwood (the problem with census and the register being that it was one night only, no idea how long his wife was in Cornwall for) do you think he would have had reason to conceal the fact that he was in Bath from the people back home?
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Operation Pluto; https://youtu.be/RqKxeYZLNmU
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Thanks Tug. :)
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Just before WW2 was declared a large body of Admiralty workers were moved into what were (I think) Blocks of buildings originally intended for WW1 as hospitals. My father moved from Devonport Dockyard in 1939 to work in Bath in the construction and design of ships etc during the conflict. The offices were by the end of the war spread over three site at Ensleigh, Foxhill and Warminster Road. All are gone now with the now MoD working on a site on the edge of Bristol. Huge employer for the city in those days. I worked there, as did an uncle, cousins and sister.
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.... 11 Marlborough St, in Bath, Somerset.
I have no idea if you are still active on these forums Ayashi, as I note your post I have quoted dates back over 7 years, but...
My Grandfather was also a civil servant employed by the MOD, specifically the Royal Navy. He spent time as an enlisted man at the outbreak of WW2 but was then mysteriously released to become a "civil servant". It was during this period of the war that he married my Grandmother and my mother was born. We know that he never talked about his work, even with my Grandmother, they went on to divorce just after the war finished. We know that before the war he was amongst other things listed as a "radio engineer". His marriage certificate to my Grandmother has him recorded as an "Electrical H.F. Engineer", for my Uncle's birth certificate he is a "Admiralty Radar Worker (H.F. Engineer Wireless Firm)".
My Grandfather then spends his entire working life in secret, he marries again and goes on to have children with his second wife. He ends up retiring as a "Senior Scientific Officer - MOD - Navy", that's what his death certificate says.
My Grandfather was a whizz with electronics of the day by all accounts and was a keen ham radio enthusiast. Purely by luck, another enthusiast asked me what his Ham radio call sign was, I gave it to him and the most astonishing thing happened, we were able to find which address he lived at from 1947 right up until his death. The radio directory for call signs was published each year and we have a complete history of where he lived. We have corroborated these addresses with birth and marriage certificates from his second family.
Interestingly, from 1961/62 until 1973/4 he lived at 11 Marlborough Lane, Bath. Now I realise your great Grandfather was at 11 Marlborough Street, not Lane, but I felt I had to post!
Did you manage to find anything more out? My hunt so far is pointing to MOD Fox Hill or MOD Ensleigh.
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Hi!
I'm still here.
Unfortunately I've since had confirmation that my great grandfather's admiralty records were destroyed in 1990 (100 years after his birth, per instruction). So there's a lot I'll never know.
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I was told that the personnel records of civil servants were destroyed after the individuals 75th birthday. But a lot of records have been transferred to the National Archives at Kew.
Bath no longer has a Ministry of Defence presence. The offices that existed are now new housing and the Spa Hotel is just that
The Empire Hotel is luxury apartments. The main employer in Bath is 2 universities and tourism
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Hi!
I'm still here.
Unfortunately I've since had confirmation that my great grandfather's admiralty records were destroyed in 1990 (100 years after his birth, per instruction). So there's a lot I'll never know.
Okay, that's interesting, I wasn't aware that you could request Admiralty records. May I ask how you went about it?
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By annoying a lot of the wrong people over the course of many years until I found the Defence Business Services. I'm at least glad that I got an answer about where the records were and that at the time they were destroyed I was still knee-high to a grasshopper so I had no chance of ever finding them.
Their actual response:
"Further to your request for information relating to your great grandfather, I am sorry to have to inform you that despite an extensive search having been carried out of our Civilian archive records, there are no documents held by the Department. Records relating to civilian employees are only retained for 100 years from date of birth (following guidance from The National Archives) and unfortunately after conducting an extensive search for any additional records, there are no records held. Civilian employee records are only retained for 100 years from date of birth and then destroyed without copy, however it is possible that National Archives may hold some information and hopefully you will receive a response in due cause." - DBS Information Records Management
The National Archives didn't give me any response whatsoever.
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By annoying a lot of the wrong people over the course of many years until I found the Defence Business Services. I'm at least glad that I got an answer about where the records were and that at the time they were destroyed I was still knee-high to a grasshopper so I had no chance of ever finding them.
Made me smile! That's pretty much the stage I'm at, I've annoyed quite a few so far... ;D
I think I shall have a go, I should get the same response as you, but if I never try I'll never know. ;) ;D
Thank you for taking the time to reply. 8)