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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: tillyc on Monday 28 May 18 19:30 BST (UK)
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I would be grateful for a marriage look-up.
The marriage took place in July 1916 at All Saints Church, Cheritona St., Folkestone, Kent,
Between: Herbert Emery Smith and Priscilla Dew.
If possible I would like to know the name recorded for Priscilla's father and occupation. Also, the name of the witness.
TIA
Tilly
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She was Priscilla L W Dew but no birth reg so she may have been a widow.
When and where did she die and did she die as Smith?
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Hi Carole
She emigrated to Canada in about 1919, under the name of Smith. As I don't have a worldwide subscription I'm not able to confirm any details such as death or whether she remarried.
But what I really need is to ascertain whether this lady is the one I am looking for.
Tilly
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there is Priscilla Smith b Queenstown Leeds age 26 arrived Quebec 15/09/1922 departed Leeds on
ship Montcalm
Canada Ocean Arrivals
Suz
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But what I really need is to ascertain whether this lady is the one I am looking for.
Sticking with the original request:
I haven't found Folkestone parish registers online, so unless a Rootschatter has access to the PRs it may mean having to purchase a copy of the certificate. Details are:
Marriage Sep qtr 1916 Elham vol 2a p2401 - SMITH Herbert E, DEW Priscilla L W
Philip
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Address on outward passenger list was 20 Clifton Terrace Torry Rd Leeds
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She is on the 1901 as Smith born 1896 Leeds so is not your Priscilla
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From what I've found it looks like she gave herself the first name of Priscilla.
Born as Lily Winifred May Hamblin on 1/5/1891 Maisemore, Gloucester to Walter Henry Hamblin and Kate Brooks (married 1890). In 1901 she is living with grandparents and shown as Lillian.
She supposedly married an Albert Henry Dew ca.1909 (cannot trace) with whom she had 3 children: Albert Henry Dew b.1909, d.1923, Georgina May Dew b.27/5/1911, Winifred Kate Dew b.6/12/1912.
Census shows Albert bc.1890 London (cannot trace birth) and he died in Gloucester in 1913.
She then remarries as Priscilla L W Dew to Herbert Emery Smith (born 1894 Toronto, Ontario) who was part of Canadian Expeditionary Force. They had 5 children: Edna May Smith b.22/7/1917 Cardiff, Herbert John Smith b.17/6/1920 Toronto and William Lorenz Smith b.12/12/1921 Toronto, James Emery Smith b.10/10/1926 Toronto plus a further son.
Herbert Emery Smith died 1975 and supposedly she is said to have married again ca.1980 (when 89 years old??) and died in Toronto in 1986.
Found them on 1921 Toronto Census, and she's dropped 4 years off her age, shown as Priscilla and says she was born in USA!!!! (untrue), her father born England (true) and mother USA (untrue).
The Dew children seemed to remain in the UK but I don't know with whom.
Annette
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She is on the 1901 as Smith born 1896 Leeds so is not your Priscilla
Now I am utterly confused!
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for taking the time to help me with this conundrum. Like Philip I am completely baffled by this one.
Annette, you are spot on with Lilian's birth and 3 of her 4 children - no marriage found for Lily and Albert. However, I have a marriage in 1915 (Gloucester - have certificate) to George Holtham - there are several spellings of this surname. I can't find them on the 1939 register or a record of their deaths. Not sure where the children were between 1915 - 1939. However, they do show up in the 1939 register with two living in Gloucester, son Albert Henry died in 1923 Gloucester and one is in Oxford.
There are a few trees on ancestry with Priscilla Lilian Winifred May Dew marrying Herbert Emery Smith; which have my Lily's details with regard to her family etc...
I did see that findmypast are going to have the Elham parish records shortly, so will have to wait until then to fathom out this little puzzle.
Once again thanks everyone for your help.
Tilly
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Sorry for confusion. The 26yr old Priscilla Smith born Leeds found arriving Quebec 1922 is on the 1901 census with parents so was born as Smith.
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How intriguing - and, right now, more questions than answers.
So, Lily/Lillian Winifred May Hamblin has 4 children (how did I miss one) with Albert Henry Dew (no marriage traced) and after he dies in 1913 she remarries to a George Holtham in 1915. Can only see the banns online which show that she was a widow with all her 3 Christian names shown but on the marriage index it just shows her as plain Lillian Dew. No trace of a George and Lillian Holtham after the 1915 marriage.
Then we have a Priscilla L W Dew marrying Herbert Emery Smith in 1916 Elham, and a daughter Edna May born 1917 Elham (who I've just noticed has mmn as Dew!!).
So, if Priscilla L W Dew was a single lady, as daughter Edna's birth would suggest, where did she come from as no-one of that name in UK births or census?
BUT
If 'Priscilla' was actually Lily/Lillian Winifred May Hamblin as online tree states (which seems pretty well researched to me) it would explain why a) her Dew children remained in the UK (may well have abandoned them), b) she married Herbert Emery Smith as 'Dew' prefixing her name with 'Priscilla' and presumably omitting that she had married a George Holtham in 1915. Did she leave him as well as her earlier children? If so, quite a lot of subterfuge by this lady.
I can see how important the 1916 Elham marriage is but at the same time has she fabricated the information she gave?
You say you have the marriage certificate to George Holtham in 1915 - what details does it give for him, are you able to identify who he was?
What a conundrum!
Annette
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So, Lily/Lillian Winifred May Hamblin has 4 children (how did I miss one) with Albert Henry Dew (no marriage traced) and after he dies in 1913 she remarries to a George Holtham in 1915. Can only see the banns online which show that she was a widow with all her 3 Christian names shown but on the marriage index it just shows her as plain Lillian Dew. No trace of a George and Lillian Holtham after the 1915 marriage.
You say you have the marriage certificate to George Holtham in 1915 - what details does it give for him, are you able to identify who he was?
(MODIFIED - Philip)
FreeBMD has marriage:
Sep qtr 1915 Gloucester vol 6a p906a HOLTOM George, DEW Lilian
Given the other marriage
Sep qtr 1916 Elham vol 2a p2401 - SMITH Herbert E, DEW Priscilla L W
I am beginning to wonder if Lilian and Priscilla are two different people.
I do think we need the information from the 1915 marriage to see what we can learn about the parents. There is a possible death
Mar qtr 1971 Gloucester C vol 7b p1158 HOLTHAM George Frederick, born 17Au1884
but without more information I have no idea if this is connected.
Philip
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However, I have a marriage in 1915 (Gloucester - have certificate) to George Holtham
If she was born as Hamblin then her fathers name on the 1915 cert should be Walter Hamblin. Is it?
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I do think we need the information from the 1915 marriage to see what we can learn about the parents. There is a possible death
Mar qtr 1971 Gloucester C vol 7b p1158 HOLTHAM George Frederick, born 17Au1884
but without more information I have no idea if this is connected.
Philip
[/quote]
7 Aug 1915 in the Parish Church , Maisemore:
George Holt....( name is illegible ) 29, bachelor, labourer of Gloucester, father John Holt....
Lilian Winifred May ( surname not given under name and surname) 24 , widow of Maisemore , father Henry Hamblin , labourer
signatures : George Holtom and Lilian Winifred May Dew
The Clergyman has entered a correction in the margin , confirming Lilian's full name.
EDIT : the correction is dated Nov 8 1916
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So - father Henry not Walter - interesting!!
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There is a possible death
Mar qtr 1971 Gloucester C vol 7b p1158 HOLTHAM George Frederick, born 17Au1884
but without more information I have no idea if this is connected.
George Frederick Holtham married Norah Kembery Berry in Gloucs 1910 and she only died in 1966
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So - father Henry not Walter - interesting!!
Her father was actually Walter Henry Hamblin but seemed to use second name.
Annette
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DUH - missed that one - sorry!!
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There is a possible death
Mar qtr 1971 Gloucester C vol 7b p1158 HOLTHAM George Frederick, born 17Au1884
but without more information I have no idea if this is connected.
George Frederick Holtham married Norah Kembery Berry in Gloucs 1910 and she only died in 1966
Well, it was a long shot!
So what happened to George HOLTOM/HOLTHAM who, if he was 29 in 1915, should have been born c1885-86?
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There is a death in 1958 Cheltenham for George Holtham born about 1885
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The 1916 Marriage is Elham Registration District not Elham parish. Elham PRs are held at Canterbury Archives and have been on FindMyPast for a number of years. There is no marriage for Herbert Emery Smith appearing in the parish from a search on FindMyPast. The page number on the BMD index entry is high so could be register office, non-conformist chapel or less likely a parish which hasn't deposited its PRs yet for then. You would need to purchase the marriage certificate to confirm the details.
For information, the Kent PRs due on FindMyPast from later this year are from Kent County Archives at Maidstone and mainly cover the west of the county (but not all as there are three other Archives covering that area too not including parishes now part of London and held at the London Metropolitan Archives).
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Suspect the 1916 marriage was in a Register Office especially with Herbert Emery Smith being a Canadian - as wartime probably by licence. As already said, only way to get the details is by purchasing the certificate.
Think I could have identified George Holtom (as he signed) bc.1886, son of John.
The spelling of surname varies in the various records - birth reg'd as Holton (mmn Hunt) in Mar.qtr.1886 Northleach, baptised 24/2/1886 Turkdean, as Holtum (parents John Holtum and Dinah Hunt shown as living together but not married).1891 Census as Holtom, 1901 and 1911 as Holton although latter mistranscribed I think.
Annette
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Priscilla Smith 23 with daughter Edna 2 arrived in Quebec on 6/7/1919 on the 'Metagama' - destination Toronto.
Priscilla and daughter (un-named) left the UK on 27/6/1919 - Ancestry's transcribed index just shows both as simply 'Smith' but original passenger list shows Priscilla was named.
Annette
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Well you have been busy in my absence - Sorry I didn't get back to you with the marriage details something urgent came up.
Everything that has been recorded is exactly what I have in my file... Annette you are again spot on with your detective work.
In my original post I have the date of the marriage (taken from the ancestry tree) which also states that the marriage took place in July 1916 at All Saints Church, Cheritona St., Folkestone. It looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get the certificate...
Thank you to everyone who has helped with this puzzle.