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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Avondale16 on Tuesday 03 July 18 13:58 BST (UK)
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This photo was amongst my grandparents photo album but I have no idea what connection if any it would have to them - does anyone have any suggestions for the reason behind this gathering on the beach?
Keith
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It's Edwardian so could be Coronation or maybe Empire Day.
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Thanks Jim
Keith
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Just did a quick cleanup of the photo, in particular the stage to see if any more details can be made out. More detail in that crest/logo above their heads is now visible with an H and a B seeming to interweave with the letter W. Hope you enjoy!
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Just did a quick cleanup of the photo, in particular the stage to see if any more details can be made out. More detail in that crest/logo above their heads is now visible with an H and a B seeming to interweave with the letter W. Hope you enjoy!
You are the master of the quick clean up DrDude - thanks so much.
Keith
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There may be a bit more to this photo than initially meets the eye. There seems to be a clear Irish connection - the structure has shamrocks at the top, and the large flag (seen in reverse) appears to be the Green Ensign.
There's some controversy about who actually used this flag and in what context, and getting to grips with that might give more clues as to what this gathering was. They're clearly not out-and-out nationalists (there's a large Union Flag on the edge of the stage), but they're also happy to display Irish symbolism. So who could they have been?
(And because of all this, I'm not certain that it's an end of WW1 event.)
There's more on the Green Ensign at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ensign
and
https://fotw.info/flags/ie-colon.html
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Thanks so much for your thoughts Arthurk - I marked the post as 'completed' as (after posting) I found a note tucked into the back of the family album in my grandfather's hand which said "celebration concert to mark the end of WW1". After reading Jim's comments & your own I'm thinking that maybe I was too hasty & as you say there is more to this image.
Keith
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I wouldn't rule out the premise that it was a concert to mark the end of the War. Timing wise, since it was on the beach (and having regard for the clothing), I'm assuming it took place late spring or summer of 1919, would that be correct?
I imagine that concerts of the era would have had a strong element of humour, and current affairs was as popular a target for satire then as it is today.
Following on from the armed uprising against British rule in Ireland in 1916, Sinn Féin won a landslide victory in 1918 and formed a breakaway Government in January 1919. I wonder if there was a skit on stage about the goings-on in Ireland as part of the concert?
Edited to add: Is it HB or possibly HR for Home Rule?
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The clothes are totally wrong for 1918-9. As Jim says, definitely Edwardian, pre 1914
Steve
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The more comments that are made (Gaffy & Steve) & the more that I stare at the photo the more I am intrigued by it.
My grandfather's note said it was taken on a beach somewhere - are those bathing huts to the right of the photo? I can see a man in a sailor's uniform but the crowd seems to be mainly women & younger men.
Also can anyone make out what the object is to the right of the stage which the young girl dressed all in white is standing in front of?
I am always wondering if their is any significance in the way that the shorter man on stage is dressed compared to the others?
Keith
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Is it a Dutch flag along the side of the stage, or just coincidence that it looks like it?
I don't know if it's ever used in parades etc, but a liking for the Dutch flag might indicate a connection to the Orange order.
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Is it a Dutch flag along the side of the stage, or just coincidence that it looks like it?
I don't know if it's ever used in parades etc, but a liking for the Dutch flag might indicate a connection to the Orange order.
Good spot arthurk - seems to be a definite Irish link to this image.
Keith
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You might get a more accurate dating from the hats on some of the women, plus their dresses.
Also, note a sailor at the bottom, front.
Men on the stage could be dressed like that for a skit - not necessarily their usual mode of dress ???
Dawn M
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You might get a more accurate dating from the hats on some of the women, plus their dresses.
Also, note a sailor at the bottom, front.
Men on the stage could be dressed like that for a skit - not necessarily their usual mode of dress ???
Dawn M
Hi Dawn - yes I noticed the lone sailor & I agree the men on the stage appear to be performers of some sort. What a mishmash of clues in this photo :-\
Keith
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Just to clarify the date, it's not WW1.
1905-10. Agree there's an Irish flavour to it & I thought the logo was possibly Harland & Wolff but could be wrong.
I still go with Empire Day or Coronation.
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are those bathing huts to the right of the photo?
There's an old bathing machine backed up to the stage - you can see one of its wheels.
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I thought the logo was possibly Harland & Wolff but could be wrong.
Good thought - however, I've just had a closer look at it and I think it's a 'BW' or 'WB' monogram, whatever that might stand for.
I'm thinking that the wheel sticking out at the back of the stage structure might actually be an integral part of it, so could this be a troupe of travelling entertainers, with a stage that folds out from a kind of gypsy caravan? They themselves seem to have an Irish vibe to them, but could they also have travelled and performed in other parts of the UK?
The ladies seem to be quite smartly dressed, so it might be something fairly special (for them, at least) - would an Empire Day or Coronation celebration have had more in the way of banners and explicit references to the occasion?
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Just to clarify the date, it's not WW1.
1905-10. Agree there's an Irish flavour to it & I thought the logo was possibly Harland & Wolff but could be wrong.
I still go with Empire Day or Coronation.
Thanks again Jim - I have ruled out WW1.
I've had a look at the Harland & Wolff logo at is looks a different style to the one in the photo.
Keith
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are those bathing huts to the right of the photo?
There's an old bathing machine backed up to the stage - you can see one of its wheels.
I agree Shaun & I thought I could see more wheels by the huts to the right. I'm still intrigued by the object that appears to be on top of a pedestal :-\ (on the right of the stage & in the crowd)
Keith
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The Union Flag is upside down or back to front by the way, deliberate or accident - who knows!
MaxD
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The Union Flag is upside down or back to front by the way, deliberate or accident - who knows!
MaxD
Thanks Max - I hadn't noticed that before - blimey there's a lot going on with this image.
Keith
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Has someone already mentioned it's the Green Ensign?
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Has someone already mentioned it's the Green Ensign?
Yes - Reply #5
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are those bathing huts to the right of the photo?
There's an old bathing machine backed up to the stage - you can see one of its wheels.
I agree Shaun & I thought I could see more wheels by the huts to the right. I'm still intrigued by the object that appears to be on top of a pedestal :-\ (on the right of the stage & in the crowd)
Keith
It seems to be directed towards the stage, and have a kind of chimney on top. Could it be a portable limelight to direct lighting onto the stage (covered to protect it from the weather, but with a vent). Since it is daylight, presumably it is not in use so not dangerous to stand next to.
None of the audience seem to carry flags or pins, (nor smiling that much at all!), so I don't think its a celebration like Empire Day or a Coronation. The lack of young men also suggests it wasn't a 'holiday', but probably a normal working day with some Irish touring troupe (called "W.B.") entertaining people on a beach somewhere. It could have been a political lecture with entertainment thrown in to draw the crowds.
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It seems to be directed towards the stage, and have a kind of chimney on top. Could it be a portable limelight to direct lighting onto the stage (covered to protect it from the weather, but with a vent). Since it is daylight, presumably it is not in use so not dangerous to stand next to.
None of the audience seem to carry flags or pins, (nor smiling that much at all!), so I don't think its a celebration like Empire Day or a Coronation. The lack of young men also suggests it wasn't a 'holiday', but probably a normal working day with some Irish touring troupe (called "W.B.") entertaining people on a beach somewhere. It could have been a political lecture with entertainment thrown in to draw the crowds.
The only person I can see who is smiling (I think) is the shorter man on stage. The more I look at him the more wonder if he was an escapology act (are his arms pinned behind his back?) Houdini was said to be 5ft 5ins - I think I'm getting a bit carried away now ??? :P
Keith
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I'm wondering if the initials could be "WB"...a brewery maybe...Watneys...Worthingtons?
Carol