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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: humanracer on Thursday 12 July 18 22:55 BST (UK)
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Sorry if I am posting in the wrong forum. Not sure which one to post in. Have done my family tree I am now researching my house which I believe dates back to the 18th Century. I have contacted Registers of Scotland who, for a fee, provided me with the "Sasine search sheets" from 1879 until the 90s when it became part of the Land Register.
I believe NRS has records dating back to the 17th Century. How easy would it to be to find my house using the information I have already. The problem is that until recently my house had no number and there seems to be no common reference number on the search sheets I have.
Any help would be appreciated.
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It should be possible to work back, starting with the sasine that was recorded when you bought the house, because normally any sasine will refer to the previous one relating to the same property.
Ideally you would go to the Historical Search Room in General Register House in Edinburgh where you can search the annual calendars for each county. It's not usually necessary to look at the whole of the original document because the listing in the annual calendar will give you all that you need to know.
Generally speaking you can search the sasines between 1780 and the mid-19th century by the name of a property, but this doesn't work so well if it is a house in a street. Also the digitised system can be a little temperamental, and on occasion infuriatingly slow.
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It should be possible to work back, starting with the sasine that was recorded when you bought the house, because normally any sasine will refer to the previous one relating to the same property.
Ideally you would go to the Historical Search Room in General Register House in Edinburgh where you can search the annual calendars for each county. It's not usually necessary to look at the whole of the original document because the listing in the annual calendar will give you all that you need to know.
Generally speaking you can search the sasines between 1780 and the mid-19th century by the name of a property, but this doesn't work so well if it is a house in a street. Also the digitised system can be a little temperamental, and on occasion infuriatingly slow.
Thanks. The search sheets I have refered to the following Sasine from 1818:
James Lawson, Smith, Limekilns, and Elizabeth Taylor, his spouse, seised, in fee & liferent respectively, Feb 18, 1818- In these Tenements of land & Houses with the office houses and yard thereto adjecent being part of the lands of CAIRNEYHILL & PITDINNIES on the north side of the high road leading from Crossford to Torry, extending in whole to 50 falls of ground & Teinds par Carnock; on Disp by Peter Taylor, Minister of the Associate Congreation at Ceres, Aug 21 1817
so question is how do I go back?? who owned it before Lawson?
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It should be possible to work back, starting with the sasine that was recorded when you bought the house, because normally any sasine will refer to the previous one relating to the same property.
Ideally you would go to the Historical Search Room in General Register House in Edinburgh where you can search the annual calendars for each county. It's not usually necessary to look at the whole of the original document because the listing in the annual calendar will give you all that you need to know.
Generally speaking you can search the sasines between 1780 and the mid-19th century by the name of a property, but this doesn't work so well if it is a house in a street. Also the digitised system can be a little temperamental, and on occasion infuriatingly slow.
Thanks. The search sheets I have refered to the following Sasine from 1818:
James Lawson, Smith, Limekilns, and Elizabeth Taylor, his spouse, seised, in fee & liferent respectively, Feb 18, 1818- In these Tenements of land & Houses with the office houses and yard thereto adjecent being part of the lands of CAIRNEYHILL & PITDINNIES on the north side of the high road leading from Crossford to Torry, extending in whole to 50 falls of ground & Teinds par Carnock; on Disp by Peter Taylor, Minister of the Associate Congreation at Ceres, Aug 21 1817
so question is how do I go back?? who owned it before Lawson?
Peter Taylor, Minister of the Associate Congregation at Ceres. Odd that it doesn't refer to the sasine recording him acquiring ownership.
To go back further you will need to access the earlier stuff in the Historical Search Room.
If Peter Taylor acquired Cairnyhill and Pitdinnies after 1780, you would open the RAC tool on a terminal in the HSR, select Fife, and then search either for Peter Taylor or for one of the place names, 1810 plus or minus 10 years, and see what comes up. If nothing does, try again using 1790 plus or minus 10 years.
If that doesn't produce anything, or if it has produced the name of whoever owned it in 1780, you then get out the printed index book for Fife for c1720-1780 and look for that person. This is when it gets more tricky because the printed index doesn't name the property that changed hands, and you have to make a note of the volume and page number, then convert that to the reference of the 'Virtual Volume' and plough through the handwritten legalese on your terminal.
There's an index for the 17th century to c1720, which is much the same as the c1720-1780 one. If you get back to the 1600s you're doing very well. Of course you may not need to go all the way back, depending on when the house was built. And if your house is in a street, you may find that the whole street, or a large chunk of it, was sold or inherited together, in which case individual houses won't be listed separately.
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It should be possible to work back, starting with the sasine that was recorded when you bought the house, because normally any sasine will refer to the previous one relating to the same property.
Ideally you would go to the Historical Search Room in General Register House in Edinburgh where you can search the annual calendars for each county. It's not usually necessary to look at the whole of the original document because the listing in the annual calendar will give you all that you need to know.
Generally speaking you can search the sasines between 1780 and the mid-19th century by the name of a property, but this doesn't work so well if it is a house in a street. Also the digitised system can be a little temperamental, and on occasion infuriatingly slow.
Thanks. The search sheets I have refered to the following Sasine from 1818:
James Lawson, Smith, Limekilns, and Elizabeth Taylor, his spouse, seised, in fee & liferent respectively, Feb 18, 1818- In these Tenements of land & Houses with the office houses and yard thereto adjecent being part of the lands of CAIRNEYHILL & PITDINNIES on the north side of the high road leading from Crossford to Torry, extending in whole to 50 falls of ground & Teinds par Carnock; on Disp by Peter Taylor, Minister of the Associate Congreation at Ceres, Aug 21 1817
so question is how do I go back?? who owned it before Lawson?
Peter Taylor, Minister of the Associate Congregation at Ceres. Odd that it doesn't refer to the sasine recording him acquiring ownership.
To go back further you will need to access the earlier stuff in the Historical Search Room.
If Peter Taylor acquired Cairnyhill and Pitdinnies after 1780, you would open the RAC tool on a terminal in the HSR, select Fife, and then search either for Peter Taylor or for one of the place names, 1810 plus or minus 10 years, and see what comes up. If nothing does, try again using 1790 plus or minus 10 years.
If that doesn't produce anything, or if it has produced the name of whoever owned it in 1780, you then get out the printed index book for Fife for c1720-1780 and look for that person. This is when it gets more tricky because the printed index doesn't name the property that changed hands, and you have to make a note of the volume and page number, then convert that to the reference of the 'Virtual Volume' and plough through the handwritten legalese on your terminal.
There's an index for the 17th century to c1720, which is much the same as the c1720-1780 one. If you get back to the 1600s you're doing very well. Of course you may not need to go all the way back, depending on when the house was built. And if your house is in a street, you may find that the whole street, or a large chunk of it, was sold or inherited together, in which case individual houses won't be listed separately.
Thanks again. On the search sheet I got from ROS, it lists two descriptions: the "tenements of houses" and then "II. Dwelling House. Later searches refer to no II. I am assuming the means at some point the house (mine) was finally sold separately?
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I wonder, as this was a Sasine abridgement, whether to view to the full Sasine?
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I possess the 1771 Valuations of Fife and Pitdinnie was held by Sir Peter Halkett of Pitfirrane. He held two properties the second is not identified. Since he died in 1792 perhaps the next Sir Peter decided he was in need coin. Taylor could have been the intermediator, the established value in 1771 was £688
Don
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I possess the 1771 Valuations of Fife and Pitdinnie was held by Sir Peter Halkett of Pitfirrane. He held two properties the second is not identified. Since he died in 1792 perhaps the next Sir Peter decided he was in need coin. Taylor could have been the intermediator, the established value in 1771 was £688
Don
Thanks but from what I understand, no one held the whole of Carineyhill and Pitdinnie? It's possible Peter Taylor just had part of the land?
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It is interesting why Peter Taylor of Ceres had interests in Cairneyhill.
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On the search sheet I got from ROS, it lists two descriptions: the "tenements of houses" and then "II. Dwelling House. Later searches refer to no II. I am assuming the means at some point the house (mine) was finally sold separately?
Yes, very probably.
BTW 'tenement' doesn't mean a large block of flats, as in contemporary city centres. It is originally a piece, usually a strip, of land, on which the feuar or tenant is expected to build a house. You get tenements in the 20th century sense when someone builds a block that takes up all or most of the original tenement.
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I wonder, as this was a Sasine abridgement, whether to view to the full Sasine?
The full thing will be fairly wordy and repetitive, but it might contain a more detailed description of the land and houses involved.
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Sorry, Halkett owned it all; £688 is the highest value of any property in the Parish.
The only other landowners were Adam Bruce, John Erskine, Adam Stobie, George Chalmers of Pittencrieff and Lord Yester who held the Mill.
The Fife valuations do not include small land holders or portioners - less than 20 roods/rods (about 5 acres).
I took another look at your description of the land and it states 50 falls which is less than 1/2 acre.
Large enough for a house, garden and shop and not much more. Or...a tenement all in Cairniehill (which is a village) and lays within the boundaries of the estate. If it didn't it would have been listed separately.
Don
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Sorry, Halkett owned it all; £688 is the highest value of any property in the Parish.
The only other landowners were Adam Bruce, John Erskine, Adam Stobie, George Chalmers of Pittencrieff and Lord Yester who held the Mill.
The Fife valuations do not include small land holders or portioners - less than 20 roods/rods (about 5 acres).
I took another look at your description of the land and it states 50 falls which is less than 1/2 acre.
Large enough for a house, garden and shop and not much more. Or...a tenement all in Cairniehill (which is a village) and lays within the boundaries of the estate. If it didn't it would have been listed separately.
Don
Thanks
My house has a "burden" which says that any coal and stone found under the property is reserved to Sir Peter Arthur Halket of Pitfirrane, his heirs and successors.