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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: mcmacey on Saturday 22 September 18 16:58 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me anything about a street or building called Smith's Place in Govan? My great grandfather's birth certificate says he was born there on 28 December 1868. His sister was also born there two years previously. Other siblings were born in Port Glasgow or Greenock, which is where I understood the family had lived at that time - also, although he was born in Govan my great grandfather's birth was registered in Port Glasgow.
I can't find it on any old maps or street indexes so any information on where it was or what it was near to would be helpful.
Thanks in anticipation,
Betty Macey
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You can see Smith's Place on this map https://maps.nls.uk/view/74955253#zoom=5&lat=6884&lon=11775&layers=BT
Stan
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This map shows the same area with the modern view https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=55.8611&lon=-4.3054&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
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Very unusual to be born in one registration district and registered at another
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It's all about the "domicile" status I think, I've seen it before but yes Sancti, it is unusual.
The mother must have been a visitor to Smith's Place. (Never thought of sunny Govan as a holiday resort before!)
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Maybe a wee ferry trip to get the new year shopping at Asda, Govan
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Thank you for the maps. I was surprised to see just how undeveloped Govan was at the time. Smith’s place looks like an isolated building, not the tenement or close I was expecting.
I am still puzzled why Margaret Madden McInnes was there rather than at home in Greenock for the birth of two of her children. It’s possible that her husband Neil McInnes had work in the shipyards in Govan but both these birth certificates describe him as a ‘ship carpenter at sea’, which I think suggest that he was away at the time of the Smith's Place births. I have been working on the theory that she might have been staying with relatives, but so far as I can tell Neil’s family were all still in Greenock. I have less information on the Maddens. Margaret had family living in Houston in 1861 but I can’t find any of them in the 1871 census, although her married sister turns up again in Greenock in 1881.
A bit of a mystery!
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It's all about the "domicile" status I think, I've seen it before but yes Sancti, it is unusual.
The mother must have been a visitor to Smith's Place.
Yes Lodger, that would be correct.
McMacey, who were the children born Govan please? Edit, found them ;)
Just wondering where Neil McInnes' line originated?
Lodger & Sancti :D Maybe happened to be the 'Glasgow Fair' for the 1st birth :-\
Annie
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You can see Smith's Place on this map https://maps.nls.uk/view/74955253#zoom=5&lat=6884&lon=11775&layers=BT
I couldn't find Smith's Place on the VRs nor Main Road although there's a 'Main Road' as per the map.
However, Smith's Place may have come under 'Main Road' but recorded as 'Main Street' (in error) as it's a continuous road (on the map)?
There were 3 M(a)cInnes men there in 1865 possibly related to Neil?
1865
MACINNES ROBERT Tenant Occupier
HOUSE 197 MAIN STREET
GOVAN
VR010200141-
MACINNES ARCHIBALD, Occupier
MAIN STREET, GOVAN
VR010700037-
MACINNES JAMES Occupier
HOUSE MAIN STREET
VR010700037-
1875
Robert & James still there with the additions of 'an' Alexander & Neil.
Do you know if those names connect with your Neil?
Annie
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I expect what is Main Road on the map later became Govan Road.
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Thank you for looking at the VRs, Annie, although I don’t recognise any of those names from 1865. I have looked at census records for them this morning but I can see no obvious links eg birth places, family names to my Neil.
Neil Mcinnes was born in Islay in about 1833 (1841 census). His father was Hector McInnes who married Marion McCaffer at Kilchoman in 1822 but who, according to 1851 Census was born in Rothesay. His mother’s name was Mary Johnson (death cert) but I don’t have his father’s name and nor apparently did his eldest son!
There were Mcinneses in Rothesay at the time but I haven’t been able to link them so I don’t know anything of the earlier generation. Hector, Marion and family were living in Port Glasgow by the mid 1850s - he died there in 1856. (None of the Govan McInneses of 1861/1871 censuses seem to be connected to Bute or Islay).
I said in my earlier post that Neil’s family were still in Greenock but when I double checked, one of his brothers, Peter, was living in Partick by 1865. He too was a ship carpenter.
Neil himself took up residence in Govan with his third wife in the 1880s but there were still ties back to Greenock; even in the 1891 census my great grandfather Neil ( the one born at Smith’s Place) was staying with his cousin in Greenock while his wife and my infant grandfather were in Govan.
Thanks again for your helpful comments
Betty
I
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I expect what is Main Road on the map later became Govan Road.
As shown on the map in reply #2
Stan
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Scotlands Places refer to it simply as a dwelling house on the south side of Main Road as discussed https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/lanarkshire-os-name-books-1858-1861/lanarkshire-volume-28/55
Monica
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Hmm,
I noticed Monica's Scotlandsplaces ref. was dated 1858-61
Oddly enough Smith's Place is on the 1855 VRs but no Main Street ::)
There appears to be more than 3 houses as they're numbered 1 & 2 with the Proprietor as James Wilkie & a 3rd Mrs Margaret Smith (no no.) as well as several Tenants (No M(a)cInnes or Madden):
SMITH MARGARET MRS Proprietor
HOUSE AND SHOP SMITHS PLACE, GOVAN
VR010700003-
Not sure why I'm posting this (had been noting down as I searched) but may be useful to someone else at a later date :-\
Annie
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This has been very interesting - at least I know a bit more about old Govan. It’s pretty clear from the 1861 and 1871 censuses that Margaret Smith was in the business of taking in lodgers, so I have to conclude that Neil and Margaret must have been lodging at Smith’s Place.
Thanks to everyone who contributed.