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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: philipsearching on Tuesday 09 October 18 20:17 BST (UK)
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I am struggling to find the maiden name and first marriage of Sarah.
On 10 Oct 1814 John WALTERS, bachelor, married Sarah CONDROW, widow, by banns in St Lukes, Chelsea. Both were of the parish (although I don't know how long they had been in the parish). Witnesses were Thos Eaton and John Fagan - I have not found a family link to either of these men.
John and Sarah's known children were Ann (b 12 Feb bap 12 Mar 1818 Shoreditch) who married James LYON, and Caroline (b 15 Jun bap 11 Jul 1820 Shoreditch) who married Amos MILLS. John might have been buried 13 Jul 1828 St Pancras age 39, but I don't know for sure if this was him.
On the 1841 census Sarah WALTERS is living in Hooper Street, Shoreditch, near the LYON family, age 50, born in county. No trace of John.
I haven't found Sarah on the 1851 census, so I can't find a more accurate age or birthplace. She may have been buried 16 Jul 1845 St Lukes aged 56, but I haven't got an image of the PR or death cert).
So, - that's all the information I have for Sarah. She was probably born in Middlesex c1790 and she married a CONDROW who died before 1814. Given that Sarah's second husband was a shoemaker (as per Ann's baptism record) she was most likely working class (or possibly lower-middle class).
Can anyone help find Sarah's marriage to CONDROW c1800-1814?
Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any help/ideas.
Philip
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Shown as Condron on another web site.
Jennifer
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Shown as Condron on another web site.
Jennifer
Thank you for responding.
Is that for the 1814 marriage to John WALTERS? Which website?
Philip
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Anc....y
Jennifer
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Shown as Condron on another web site.
Jennifer
Thank you for responding.
Is that for the 1814 marriage to John WALTERS? Which website?
Philip
Anc....y
Jennifer
Difficult to tell if the final letter on the surname is a W or an N with a loopy ending. ???
I have tried fuzzysearches on Anc**** and FamilySearch to match a marriage for Sarah and a possible death for the spouse. All I came up with was one on FamilySearch which did not convince me:
Marriage 10 Jul 1803 St Botolph, Bishopsgate John CONDON to Sarah Hughes
Death 9 Feb 1814 St Botolph, Aldgate John CONDON age 63
Philip
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Is this your WALTERS - AMOS marriage -
Caroline WALTERS M. Amos MILLS 25 Dec 1838 St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney
living 2 Amelia Place, father Richard WALTERS, waterman
witnesses Samuel CRABB, Ann WALTERS
Ann WALTERS m. James LYON 9 Aug 1840 St Johns Evangelist Lambeth
living Hooper Street, father John WALTERS, shoemaker
witnesses John WALTERS and James GREEN (John GREEN name appears often)
Signature for Ann WALTERS witness, and Ann WALTERS, bride, are a good match to be the same person.
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Using the 1841 age and allowing for rounding - Sarah could have been born 1787-1791. If born 1787 she would have been barely 16 in 1803. Have you tried looking for Condron/Condrow births pre-1814 with a mothers name Sarah?
The only one I can find on FS is 1809 Essex - parents Andrew Condron and Sarah Bones
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Is this your WALTERS - AMOS marriage -
Caroline WALTERS M. Amos MILLS 25 Dec 1838 St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney
living 2 Amelia Place, father Richard WALTERS, waterman
witnesses Samuel CRABB, Ann WALTERS
Ann WALTERS m. James LYON 9 Aug 1840 St Johns Evangelist Lambeth
living Hooper Street, father John WALTERS, shoemaker
witnesses John WALTERS and James GREEN (John GREEN name appears often)
Signature for Ann WALTERS witness, and Ann WALTERS, bride, are a good match to be the same person.
Oh boo! Two Carolines! (or more)
Caroline WALTERS b 15 Jun bapt 11 Jul 1820 St Leonards Shoreditch parents John and Ann.
Caroline WALTERS b 18 Aug bapt 16 Sep 1825 St Leonards Shoreditch parents Richard and Clara.
I assigned the Amos MILLS marriage to the wrong Caroline.
(ADDED) And an extra boo! I missed the 1840 marriage indication that John WALTERS was still alive.
Philip
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Using the 1841 age and allowing for rounding - Sarah could have been born 1787-1791. If born 1787 she would have been barely 16 in 1803. Have you tried looking for Condron/Condrow births pre-1814 with a mothers name Sarah?
The only one I can find on FS is 1809 Essex - parents Andrew Condron and Sarah Bones
I saw the marriage on FamilySearch Andrew CONDRAN and Sarah BONES 1808 Essex, but couldn't find a death for Andrew before 1814. I hadn't looked for baptisms.
Therer are various entries on FamilySearch for CONDROW/CONDRON etc in Ireland, but I couldn't see a good match.
Philip
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Caroline MILLS nee WALTERS might be of use to you. Because I am seeing the Ann WALTERS, witness, to be your Ann, there is a likely WALTERS connection here.
Look at the signatures and see what you think.
Following Caroline, full age at marriage, might further your search for Sarah.
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Caroline MILLS nee WALTERS might be of use to you. Because I am seeing the Ann WALTERS, witness, to be your Ann, there is a likely WALTERS connection here.
Look at the signatures and see what you think.
Following Caroline, full age at marriage, might further your search for Sarah.
That is a nice idea - thank you. I had a quick look for Amos and Caroline on FamilySearch 1841-61 censuses but didn't spot them. I will probably end up ordering the pdf for the 1845 death to see if that is my Sarah. The burial transcript on FamilySearch 16 Jul 1845 St Lukes, Middlesex, gives her address as Bunhill Row
The parents and siblings of John WALTERS are on my "to find" list (it's a very long list!), but I haven't started on them yet. It's the "who was Sarah before 1814" question that has me bamboozled.
Philip
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Is this your WALTERS - AMOS marriage -
Caroline WALTERS M. Amos MILLS 25 Dec 1838 St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney
living 2 Amelia Place, father Richard WALTERS, waterman
witnesses Samuel CRABB, Ann WALTERS
Ann WALTERS m. James LYON 9 Aug 1840 St Johns Evangelist Lambeth
living Hooper Street, father John WALTERS, shoemaker
witnesses John WALTERS and James GREEN (John GREEN name appears often)
Signature for Ann WALTERS witness, and Ann WALTERS, bride, are a good match to be the same person.
I have the marriage cert for LYON/WALTERS 1840, but I can't see an image for the MILLS/WALTERS marriage. I'm probably missing something obvious, but which site is it on?
Philip
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I assumed this is where you were seeing the marriage details -
"Ancestry......BDM.......London" then select "marriages and banns 1754 - 1932" from right hand side
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I assumed this is where you were seeing the marriage details -
"Ancestry......BDM.......London" then select "marriages and banns 1754 - 1932" from right hand side
Aha! Found it! (I was looking in the wrong list). Many thanks
Caroline daughter of Richard and Clara born and bapt 1825 is definitely not the bride (she was single, with parents on the 1841 census). So there is another Caroline daughter of Richard to account for.
Philip
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At your reply #13, with two images -
Caroline WALTERS m. Amos MILLS 1838, signature of Ann WALTERS, witness.......this is the image that I see.
Ann WALTERS m. James LYON 1840, signature of Ann WALTERS, bride.... this is not the image that I see for the WALTERS - LYON marriage, 1840. The image I see is St Johns Waterloo, Parish of Lambeth, is record #248 on page 124
The index finds it as St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
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There are a couple of other possible siblings for Ann & Caroline....
Baptised at St Margaret Westminster to John & Sarah Walters (shoemaker)
1823 - Elizabeth Caroline of New Fol???? Street
1828 - Benjamin of Dukes Place (possible death in 1833, age 5, of 3 Deans Place).
Jo :)
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At your reply #13, with two images -
Caroline WALTERS m. Amos MILLS 1838, signature of Ann WALTERS, witness.......this is the image that I see.
Ann WALTERS m. James LYON 1840, signature of Ann WALTERS, bride.... this is not the image that I see for the WALTERS - LYON marriage, 1840. The image I see is St Johns Waterloo, Parish of Lambeth, is record #248 on page 124
The index finds it as St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
Many thanks for your help - it is greatly appreciated.
The snippet I posted with the groom's mark and the bride's signature is from the 1840 marriage certificate I got from GRO a few years ago. James LYON to Ann WALTERS St John Waterloo, Lambeth, 9 Aug 1840. All the information is the same, but on my copy the entry number is handwritten (not printed as in the register book) and the size of the words is different. It seems the copy I got from GRO may be a transcript ??? The signatures in the marriage register books (on Anc****) do look like a reasonable match.
Philip
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There are a couple of other possible siblings for Ann & Caroline....
Baptised at St Margaret Westminster to John & Sarah Walters (shoemaker)
1823 - Elizabeth Caroline of New Fol???? Street
1828 - Benjamin of Dukes Place (possible death in 1833, age 5, of 3 Deans Place).
Jo :)
Many thanks for this info. Which website is it from?
Philip
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Findmypast :)
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Benjamin WALTERTS' baptism has what looks like n.r. and n.p. in the right margin. This is not shown on other baptisms on the register page. Does anyone know what it means?
not resident??