RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: keithjd27 on Sunday 14 October 18 13:45 BST (UK)
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Greetings Nice People,
My Grandmother was born and brought up on two farms in a place called "Uchlawcoed".
It is supposed to be in the Rhymney area but I can't find it. My grandmothers' name was
Mary Elias and her fathers name was Daniel Elias. She was one of eight children according
to the 1881 census , but the family were also mentioned in the 1871 census in the same area.
Obviously I am tracing my family tree but after 3 years I have only found about
one twigs worth so any ideas on where I can find records on this area would be great.
I have just joined "The Geneologist" and finding things a bit different.
Thanks and kind regards - Keith
Just to confirm , They were all one family I believe - ty
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What do you already know? It will avoid a duplication of effort. It will also help if you can be a little more specific in your request.
Were your grandmother's parents Daniel Elias and Mary Evans, whose names appear on the same page of the Bedwelty marriage register in December 1864?
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is it Uchlawrcoed you're looking for or the specific farms?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3751394
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Could Uchlawcoed be Uwchlawreoed :-\ https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Bedwellty
Kay
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it should be Uchlawrcoed but does seem to appear as Ushlawrcoed in some sources.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/879
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I think there are two hamlet - Uchlawrcoed and Ishlawrcoed. Uch being derived from Uwch - upper and Ish from Is/Isaf - lower. In the local dialect "Is" was often pronounced as "Ish" They're part of Bedwellty
I found the family on 1881. Ancestry transcribed the farm as Penbrynon, but some digging about suggests it was Penbryn-oer. An address on the previous page of the census is Nantymelyn pit, and there's a Nantmelyn Pit within a kilometre of Penbryn-oer. this will show yu where it was - fairly sure the area has long since been opencast and is now on the edges of Brynbach Park
https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/c2d1879e-37eb-47d9-ba59-0cb4e8f75325
And this newpaper notice seems to confirm it - first item under "Liqudations by arrangement"
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3332945/3332949/42/
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Here's some more - I guess the daughter who had the accident here may be Annie, from the age and date (1880)
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3420290/3420292/23/
Did Daniel also have a daughter Jane? There's a Jane, mentioned here (Welsh article). Daughter of the late Daniel Elias of Bryn Oer, Rhymney, recently married to a Mr Arthur English of the New York Observer. They were visiting the welsh community in Scranton, Pennsylvania
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3540459/3540462/37/
I can also find mention of a Thomas Morris of Rhymney, who married Catherine Elias daughter of Daniel of Bryn Oer, who died in Spring Brook Pa, in 1900. As it says they came to the Us many years ago, I wonder if this is a previous Daniel? (although I see a tree on Ancestry suggesting Jane & Catherine are Daniel's daughters from a previous marriage)
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1871 census has the family at what looks like Bryn Ore but Bryn Oer makes more sense.
;)
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Greetings Nice People,
My Grandmother was born and brought up on two farms in a place called "Uchlawcoed".
It is supposed to be in the Rhymney area but I can't find it. My grandmothers' name was
Mary Elias and her fathers name was Daniel Elias. She was one of eight children according
to the 1881 census , but the family were also mentioned in the 1871 census in the same area.
Obviously I am tracing my family tree but after 3 years I have only found about
one twigs worth so any ideas on where I can find records on this area would be great.
I have just joined "The Geneologist" and finding things a bit different.
Thanks and kind regards - Keith
Just to confirm , They were all one family I believe - ty
For reference purposes. I assume this is the family in question in 1871/1881 census:
1871 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V55Z-L1V
1881 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2WM-YFL8
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Did Daniel also have a daughter Jane? There's a Jane, mentioned here (Welsh article). Daughter of the late Daniel Elias of Bryn Oer, Rhymney, recently married to a Mr Arthur English of the New York Observer. They were visiting the welsh community in Scranton, Pennsylvania
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3540459/3540462/37/
I can also find mention of a Thomas Morris of Rhymney, who married Catherine Elias daughter of Daniel of Bryn Oer, who died in Spring Brook Pa, in 1900. As it says they came to the Us many years ago, I wonder if this is a previous Daniel? (although I see a tree on Ancestry suggesting Jane & Catherine are Daniel's daughters from a previous marriage)
Jane's marriage to Arthur S English.
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2442-P81
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Hello Nice people - Thank you to the ones who have helped me already - I realise I have a lot to learn.
Things that may help: I think - Daniel Elias 16Oct1820 to 10May1886 married Mary Ann Evans
27May1835 to 1888 in late 1864. Ann or Annie:- 1866- ?, either married Caleb Evans in 1883, went to N.Y. 11/May-1/Jun1889 and then married Arthur English as Jane but probably was in the accident Mabel found and survived. Gwenlillian:- 1868 I think she died in early 1893, no idea how. Phoebe 12jan1869 married Joseph Williams late 1887. He may have been a soldier and I think the whole family went to Oz on a troop ship. Elias:- 1870-1899 he was a miner(Where?) Elizabeth 1872 and Esther (1880) I have no idea. Hannah:-1875 married William Thomas Hamer in 1891 and had 2 sons Josiah 1895 nothing at all and Horace 1899 who died at the Somme aged 19.Leaving my Grandmother Mary:-1877 - she is suppoesd to have met my Grandfather while she was in service in Cardiff. He came from Cardiganshire and I have no idea how he get there or really anything before they in London married , running a Dairy in Clerkenwell. It's all a bit vague so if anyone can confirm any of this or pad it out or has ideas how I would appreciate the help.
Have fun people!
kind regards - Keith
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1871 census
1 Bryn Oer Uchlawrcoed RG10/5329 folio 76 pg 19
Daniel Elias head mar 49 farmer of 60 acres of land b. Rhymney
Mary wife 35 b. Breconshire
Anne dau 5 b. Rhymney
Gwenn dau 4 b. Rhymney
Elias son 1 b. Rhymney
Samuel Parry 40 farm labourer b. Breconshire
1881 Penbrynoer Farm RG11/5248 folio 106 pg 20
Daniel Elias head mar 59 farmer
Mary wife 45 b. Breconshire
Gwenllian dau 13
Phoebe dau 12
Elias son 11
Elizabeth dau 9
Hannah dau 6
Mary dau 3
Esther dau 1
1891 1 Nantymelyn Row RG12/4359 folio 160 pg 13
Gwenllain Elias head 24
Elias brother 21 haulier
Mary sister 14
Esther sister 10
all born Rhymney
1901 3 Nanymelyn Row RG13/4942 folio 51 pg 17
Esther Elias21 living on own means
Mary Jane Howells visitor widow 28
Cecilia Howells visitor single 19
death reg Gwenllian Elias 25 march qtr 1893 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 69
death reg Elias Elias 29
possible marriage dec 1894 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 187 for Elizabeth Elias to Frank Burns or Abraham Harris
Esther Elias marriage june qtr 1901 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 197 to David White or Ebenezer Williams
all born Rhymney
The marriage for Hannah Elias in 1891 is online and she is not from this family as her father according to the parish register is Thomas Elias, a collier and she was 18 and living in Sirhowy.
But there is a possible marriage march qtr 1899 for Hannah Elias to Abraham Harris or John Williams vol 11a pg 166.
I think Elizabeth married Abraham Harris and then died march qtr 1898 - Elizabeth Harris 25 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 62 and Abraham married his sister in law, Hannah, in 1899.
1901 22 Carno St RG13/4942 folio 58 pg 8
Abram Harris head mar 28 coal hewer
Hannah wife 26
Ebenezer E son 3
Daniel E son 1
all born Rhymney
birth reg Ebenezer Elias Harris march qtr 1898 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 108 mmn Elias so Elizabeth possibly died as a result of childbirth
family in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P7-FBW
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sept 1900 Esther winning a prize for pigs
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3746534/3746540/143/
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Hello Nice people - Thank you to the ones who have helped me already - I realise I have a lot to learn.
Things that may help: I think - Daniel Elias 16Oct1820 to 10May1886 married Mary Ann Evans
27May1835 to 1888 in late 1864. Ann or Annie:- 1866- ?, either married Caleb Evans in 1883, went to N.Y. 11/May-1/Jun1889 and then married Arthur English as Jane but probably was in the accident Mabel found and survived. Gwenlillian:- 1868 I think she died in early 1893, no idea how. Phoebe 12jan1869 married Joseph Williams late 1887. He may have been a soldier and I think the whole family went to Oz on a troop ship. Elias:- 1870-1899 he was a miner(Where?) Elizabeth 1872 and Esther (1880) I have no idea. Hannah:-1875 married William Thomas Hamer in 1891 and had 2 sons Josiah 1895 nothing at all and Horace 1899 who died at the Somme aged 19.Leaving my Grandmother Mary:-1877 - she is suppoesd to have met my Grandfather while she was in service in Cardiff. He came from Cardiganshire and I have no idea how he get there or really anything before they in London married , running a Dairy in Clerkenwell. It's all a bit vague so if anyone can confirm any of this or pad it out or has ideas how I would appreciate the help.
Have fun people!
kind regards - Keith
I descend from Catherine Jane Elias (my ggm), the daughter of Thomas Elias.
Catherine’s sister was Hannah Elias who married William Hamer.
There seem to be two different families being merged in this thread.
I am in the process of trying to untangle them.
I believe that Jane English and Catherine Morris are siblings to my ggm Thomas Elias.
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Hello, Thank you for your reply,
Having had a quick look at your reply I know that Hannah was the sister of my grandmother Mary and she did marry William Hamer and they had 2 sons Josiah and Horace. Now the sad bit, she died when she was only 26, leaving two young boys. I don't know what happened to William or Josiah but I know that Horace died in April 1917 at the Somme - he was 19. He had also been to Gallipoli but came back from there only to sent to the Somme. They lived in Dukestown.
They had another sister Phoebe who married a soldier (Joseph Williams) and went out to Oz with they're family and lived in North Sydney - she died in 1931.
I think my ggd Daniel married twice and that your ggm may be in the 1st family whereas my gm was in the 2nd. Good luck with the search and if I can help please ask - thanks and regards - Keith
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Hi Keith
I have Hannah’s marriage certificate in front of me. She married William Hamer at Bedwellty Parish Church on 4th April 1891. William is 19 and Hannah is 18 (ie - born c. 1873).
William’s father is William Hamer Snr (a Collier).
Hannah’s father is Thomas Elias (also a Collier).
Is that the same info that you have?
Thanks
Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
Thank you for information and I think you're right and my Hannah married in 1899 because my ggd was definitely Daniel not Thomas - so, it's back to the drawing board for me!
My gggd was Elias Elias who lived in the same area.
If I find out anything that could be useful to you I get back to you.
Thanks again - Keith
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Thanks Keith
What dated do you have for Elias Elias?
Who have you got as his spouse?
I have an Elias Elias as my 4xggf so we may have a common ancestor.
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Hi Stephen,
my Elias Elias was born in 1790 and died in 1862.
he married Jane Jones 17/September 1814 in Llangynidr, Brecon
she was born in1795 but there isn't a date of death yet.
Their first son was Thomas born in 1817 and died on 30th Oct 1880.
he married Phoebe Lewis in 1836 in Bedwellty, Mon.
she was born in 1819 and died in 1881.
I'm taking this info from FamilySearch done by Teejay so I can't be certain it's all
good but it makes sense to me. There is no mention of Thomas and Phoebe having children
but may just mean no-ones looked yet.
I have a few household problems that I've been ignoring that I must do so I may be a bit
quiet for a while but I will be back soon
If you find anything out still let me know and I'll get back to you when I can.
Happy Hunting - Keith
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Hi Keith
Hope you manage to sort out the household issues.
Sounds like we are cousins if the Elias Elias/Jane Jones ancestors prove correct. I have them as my direct ancestors too.
Best wishes
Stephen