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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: goatfish77 on Tuesday 16 October 18 15:29 BST (UK)
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I can't seem to find a birth record for my GGG Grandfather.
I think he may have changed his name between Johnson/Jonsey/Johnsey at some point possibly because he was in prison as I have found some Wiltshire records from 1835 and 1863 which mention an alias as johnson.
My Grandmother told me there was a name change in our family and was a little cagey about the possibility of me digging up some family history which she wasn't keen on people knowing so this could be it.
Henry married Eliza Barnes in 1844 in Cirencester, then the census returns show:
1841 I found a Henry Johnson age 20 living with the Whitman Family in S Cerney born Glous.
1851 Henry Jonsey - Labourer born S. Cerney, Glous, wife Eliza, children William, Richard, Job
1861 Henry Johnson - Butcher born in Shorncott, Wiltshire, wife Eliza, children William, Richard, Jobe, Sarah, Thomas, Isaac, Betsy & Cornelius
1871 Henry Johnsey - Labourer age 60 born Kempsford, Glous, wife Eliza (born Cricklade), children William, Job, Thomas, Isaac, Betsy, Cornelius, Archelaus & Selina
Sarah, Thomas, Isaac, Betsy & Cornelius
The best I match I have found are birth records for:
Henry Jones baptised 1820 son of John Jones & Hannah S. Cerney - The Whitman family from the 1841 Census are John & Hannah Whitman
Or Henry Johnsea baptised Kempsford 1817 son of William Johnsea and Sarah
Can anyone help me narrow this down?
Thanks in advance.
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Does the marriage certificate to Eliza Barnes give any helpful information
Marriage Mar qtr 1844
BARNES Eliza
JOHNSEY Henry
Cirencester 11 249
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He does seem a bit of a rogue ;D
There are quite a few articles on online newspapers that could fit him. It looks as though he may have a brother Job Johnsey according to some articles.
In 1841 there is a Job Johnsey - 20 -living in Shorncote wit a possible mother Sarah -60 not bn in County - of independent means
HO107 /1178 bk24 f2 p16
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From freereg
Shorncote, Wilts
Baptism 13 Jul 1820
Job
Father William
Mother Sarah
Father surname JONCEY
abode Shorncutt
Father occupation Labourer
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Marriage at All Hallows, South Cerney 18 March 1844
after banns
Henry Jonsey f/a bachelor labourer of South Cerney s/o William Jonsey labourer
Eliza Barnes f/a spinster of South Cerney d/o Moses Barnes sawyer
Witnesses: Job Jonsey
Anna Hall
[All make their mark]
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The Shortcut/Shorncutt Records on Ancestry (are incomplete with gaps - so assume they haven't survived).
Ancestry
Burials at Shortcote, Wiltshire
William JONCEY, residence: Shorncutt - 25 March 1833 (writing in margin - not sure if it belongs to William)
Sarah JOHNSY, residence: Shorncutt - 28 October 1849 - aged 73
Richard JOHNSEY, residence: South Cerney - 8 December 1847 aged 6 months
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Richard JOHNSEY christened at South Cerney - 27 August 1848, parents: Henry, labourer & Eliza
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----These notes are handwritten on the first page of the Burials
The population of the Parish of Shorncutt taken 28 May 1821
7 under 5 years of age
1 between 5 & 10
ditto between 10 & 15
4 ditto 20 & 30
5 ditto 30 & 30
2 ditto 40 & 50
1 ditto 50 & 60
3 ditto 60 & 70
1 ditto 70 & 80
Males 10
Females 15
Houses Six
and seven families
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Great work!
I found a William Johnsen who married Sarah Stop in Kempsford in 1815, then the baptism record for a Henry Johnsea in 1817 in Kempsford. So is it possible that they are my GGGG grandparents who then they moved to Shorncote where Job was born and William died?
Can anyone find any other children born to William & Sarah?
Can anyone find Henry in 1841 or is he most likely to be the Henry Johnson in S Cerney with the Whitman’s?
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I think he had a 'relative' William JOHNSEY - who is on the 1841 Census at North Cerney - listed as Willm JOHNSEY - his marriage is on Ancestry to Jane - just had a look at the marriage - which lists an Ann JOHNSEY witness
William has sons, named amongst others called Henry & Job (family names) -
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For starters, here's the marriage at North Cerney - 23 February 1828
William JOHNSEY - bachelor
Jane GREGG - spinster
witnesses: Henry GEGG and Ann JOHNSEY
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Sarah JOHNSY - was aged 73 when she was buried 28 October 1849 = c1776
This is the 1841 Census for North Cerney (with I think family names)
JOHNSEY
Willm 35 - Ag Labourer - born in County
June (Jane) - 30
Ann - 13
Henry - 11
Mary - 9
Jane - 7
Elizabeth - 5
Job - 4
Moses - 2
Johnsey infant - 6 months
(on the 1851 census, William says he was born CALESBOURN, Gloucestershire)
There is a baptism of a William JOHNSEY - at Colesborne, 12 September 1802 - parents: Thomas & Ann.
? Marriage at Withington, Gloucestershire 5 August 1801: Thomas JOHNSEE and Ann SMITH
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Can anyone see any more detail on the marriage of William Johnsen who married Sarah Stop in Kempsford in 1815?
Or Thomas Johnsee who married Ann Smith in Withington 1801?
I wonder if they were related.
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Can anyone see any more detail on the marriage of William Johnsen who married Sarah Stop in Kempsford in 1815?
Have you tried Ancestry, they have some Gloucestershire marriage registers :-\
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Ancestry has a copy of the marriage: Sarah signs here name as : Sarah STOPP - William JOHNSEA signed with an X
witnesses: William GILLETT and William DAFTER? - there are DAFTER'S in Kempsford
There is a Robert STOP(P) - marrying at Kempsford, 26 August 1805 to Sarah MILLER
Can't find any more children of Robert & Sarah -
? possibly Sarah STOPP was a widow - but it doesn't say so.
They had a son William christened at Kempsford 27 October 1805 and William was buried 5 May 1806.
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I don't have a subscription to Ancestry can anyone look for me?
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William GILLETT - signs a number of marriages at Kempsford.
William DAFTER (the witness) was buried at Kempsford, 9 November 1840 aged 69 - c 1771 - and his Widow then remarries a John GOSLIN.
The Widow Elizabeth DAFTER aged 50 - lists her father as William MULCOCK, a labourer.
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Ancestry: Gloucestershire England Prison Records 1728-1914
Henry JOHNSEY - of South Cerney (labourer)
Age: 31
Birth Year: about 1817
Conviction or Committal Date: 2 January 1848
The County Goal, Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Discharge Date: 10 January 1849
Height: 5 foot 4 and a half inch
Dark Brown Hair
Hazel Eyes
Oval Visage
Common Complextion
Large Long Nose
(along with Charles PETERS age 33, of South Cerney, Carpenter)
Charged with feloniously stealing at Liddington on the 26 December 1848, certain Ash, Maple and Buckthorn Wood the property of Charles WOOD.
Native of South Cerney - married 1 child worked for Jno MILLS 6 months before that for Jon STONE
By what Authority: Order of the Court
Two Calendar months hard labour in the House of Correction Lawford Gate
Orderly
Church
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Ancestry: Gloucestershire England Prison Records 1728-1914
Henry JOHNSEY - of South Cerney (labourer)
Age: 31
Birth Year: about 1817
Conviction or Committal Date: 2 January 1848
The County Goal, Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Discharge Date: 10 January 1849
Height: 5 foot 4 and a half inch
Dark Brown Hair
Hazel Eyes
Oval Visage
Common Complextion
Large Long Nose
(along with Charles PETERS age 33, of South Cerney, Carpenter)
Charged with feloniously stealing at Liddington on the 26 December 1848, certain Ash, Maple and Buckthorn Wood the property of Charles WOOD.
Native of South Cerney - married 1 child worked for Jno MILLS 6 months before that for Jon STONE
By what Authority: Order of the Court
Two Calendar months hard labour in the House of Correction Lawford Gate
Orderly
Church
Brilliant! Thank you.
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Ancestry has a copy of the marriage: Sarah signs here name as : Sarah STOPP - William JOHNSEA signed with an X
witnesses: William GILLETT and William DAFTER? - there are DAFTER'S in Kempsford
There is a Robert STOP(P) - marrying at Kempsford, 26 August 1805 to Sarah MILLER
Can't find any more children of Robert & Sarah -
? possibly Sarah STOPP was a widow - but it doesn't say so.
They had a son William christened at Kempsford 27 October 1805 and William was buried 5 May 1806.
So William Johnsea’s father is not given?
And did you mean Sarah & Robert Stop had a son named William?
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I've found the connection to the WHITEMAN's
Charles PETERS married Susannah WHITEMAN (father : John WHITEMAN) at South Cerney
September 14th 1839
and that's who Henry is living with on the 1841 census : John WHITEMAN and his family -
John WHITMAN married Hannah HAYWARD - 20 December 1814 South/North Cerney
Robert & Sarah STOPP had a son William who died.
STOPP is not a common Gloucestershire name.
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Great, thanks. That helps confirm Henry Johnson as the right person in 1841 as I wasn’t sure about that one and I think there is an interesting story there with the Prison records. I wonder if I should tell my Grandma!
I’d still like to find out where & when William Johnsea (Kempsford/Shorncote) was born and see if there is a connection to Thomas & Ann Johnsey parents of William Johnsey of North Cerney. There also seem to be a lot of Johnsey’s in Compton Abdale.
Thank you all for your help though.
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Had a quick look at William & JANE JOHNSEY/JOHNSEY etc at North Cerney - for the baptism of their children.
they were residing at Woodmancote -
There are people from South Cerney - having children christened at North Cerney and there was Jasper & Mary WHITMAN - from South Cerney having a baptism 7 October 1832 at North Cerney.
When William & Jane JOHNSEY - son's was christened 17 February 1839 - at North Cerney - William was occupation was a Shepherd - which would account for moving around!
? baptism at Coberley, Gloucestershire 14 January 1780
William JOHNSEY, parents: James & Mary
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Your local library would probably have free access to Ancestry - our local one does.
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Charged with feloniously stealing at Liddington on the 26 December 1848, certain Ash, Maple and Buckthorn Wood the property of Charles WOOD.
Unimportant, I know, but I think that would be Charles Wood of Siddington, a parish neighbouring South Cerney. (He shows up in my husband's tree, though not a direct ancestor. He was a farmer and fairly well connected in the area, so probably not someone to get on the wrong side of. )
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Had a quick look at William & JANE JOHNSEY/JOHNSEY etc at North Cerney - for the baptism of their children.
they were residing at Woodmancote -
There are people from South Cerney - having children christened at North Cerney and there was Jasper & Mary WHITMAN - from South Cerney having a baptism 7 October 1832 at North Cerney.
When William & Jane JOHNSEY - son's was christened 17 February 1839 - at North Cerney - William was occupation was a Shepherd - which would account for moving around!
? baptism at Coberley, Gloucestershire 14 January 1780
William JOHNSEY, parents: James & Mary
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Your local library would probably have free access to Ancestry - our local one does.
Can you see the original image of that Baptism at Coberley in 1780?
I have found one similar but with a different transcription I guess....
I am mainly looking on Findmypast.co.uk and they have this record for baptism at Coberley 1780:
First name(s)
William
Last name
Ribbins
Gender
Male
Birth year
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Birth place
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Baptism year
1780
Baptism date
14 Jan 1780
Place
Coberley
County
Gloucestershire
Country
England
Father's first name(s)
James
Father's last name
Ribbins
Mother's first name(s)
Mary Johnsy
Mother's last name
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Record set
England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category
Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory
Parish Baptisms
Collections from
England, Great Britain
Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl
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Great, thanks. That helps confirm Henry Johnson as the right person in 1841 as I wasn’t sure about that one and I think there is an interesting story there with the Prison records. I wonder if I should tell my Grandma!
I’d still like to find out where & when William Johnsea (Kempsford/Shorncote) was born and see if there is a connection to Thomas & Ann Johnsey parents of William Johnsey of North Cerney. There also seem to be a lot of Johnsey’s in Compton Abdale.
Thank you all for your help though.
I may be barking up the wrong tree but there is a William and Mary Johnsey in Compton Abdale who have had children named:
Jane Joncey 1750
Hester Joncey 1752
William Joncey 1755 - died?
Mary Johnsee 1757 baptised in neighbouring parish of Hampnett - died?
William Johnsey 1760
Mary Johnsy 1762
Rich(ar)d Johnsey 1764
Thomas Johnsy 1767
Could this Thomas have gone on to marry Ann Smith in 1801 producing the William of North Cerney b 1802 who marries Jane Gregg/Gegg 1828?
And one of the other siblings produced the William Johnsea who married Sarah Stopp in Kempsford in 1815?
I feel like I am missing a generation with William Johnsea's parents and I am confused by the baptism in Coberley in 1780 which I mentioned in my last post.