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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Cockneyrebel on Wednesday 31 October 18 12:33 GMT (UK)
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The above appears to have married Thomas Buchan but I can find no record of it. At 1871 they were living at 25 Priorden Ave, Brighton, he was a cow keeper aged 60 born Scotland and Fanny was 23-big difference in ages! They had 2 sons but only 1 appears to have lived beyond birth, he was Thomas James Vallance Buchan b q2 1871 bapt 20 Aug 1871 Brighton, the other son was Thomas Vallance Buchan b and d q1 1870.
Fanny appeared as a widow at a hospital in Leith, Midlothian, as a patient, occupation recorded as charwoman. No record of Thomas's passing or of the son since his baptism?
Complete mystery?
Cr ???
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Another child?
Robert George Buchan birth 22 Feb 1873 Colinton, Midlothian
Parents Thomas Buchan and Frances Gurr
(Source Familysearch.Org)
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Maybe trish but forgot to mention that Fanny was in Leith in 1881.
Cr
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Scored a bullseye trish, Robert was their son and gives their date of marriage as 31/12/1869 at Brighton. Thank you.
Cr
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Sorry noticed you had information on marriage :P
Rosie
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Yes I saw Fanny in Leith in 1881.
May be a red herring but there is a Robert Buchan born 1873 North Leith, Edinr in the Poor House North Junction St, Leith in 1881 also.
+ a Andrew age 5
Cant find a birth for Andrew
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Paths crossed, excellent result ;D
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Doesnt seem to be a FreeBMD Marriage Reg though 1st Qtr 1870!
Thomas's 1868 Birth Reg Mothers mn Gur
Death Reg's
BUCHAN, THOMAS age 0
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in BRIGHTON Volume 02B Page 123
BUCHAN, THOMAS VALLANCE age 0
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in BRIGHTON Volume 02B Page 156
Trish :)
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I have numerous BCs where father registered birth & gave wrong date/yr for marriage i.e. worth checking other yrs (assuming they did marry).
Annie
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Another bullseye, trish, Andrew b 27/4/1876 at View Place, Lieth, father now stableman was gardener when Robert born.
Cr
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What was the date/place of marriage on Andrew's birth?
Annie
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Marriage was 31/12/1869 Brighton.
Cr
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Do you think the name Vallance was maybe Thomas's mother's mn?
Cr
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Might be worth checking the death for Thomas Buchan in Leith South RD in 1877 - age given as 67 (as per free search on SP).
Added - I also note a death for a Fanny Buchan age 47 in Peebles in 1891. The 1891 census has a Fanny Buchan age 46, born in England and a widow - she is an inmate in Peebles workhouse.
William
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Well spotted Millmoor, it was Thomas who passed away 8 Jan 1877 of pneumonia at 3 View Place, Leith, his parents were Andrew Buchan, labourer and Catherine nee Haddow. Fanny was the informant.
So I guess no wonder the 2 boys ended up in the poor house in 1881 but what about Fanny-would she have passed away too or maybe married again?
Cr
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There is a death for a Thomas Vallance Buchan 1881 in Leith aged 10 years
Rosie
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[
Added - I also note a death for a Fanny Buchan age 47 in Peebles in 1891. The 1891 census has a Fanny Buchan age 46, born in England and a widow - she is an inmate in Peebles workhouse.
William
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Would say so William looks a good match
Rosie
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There are some births of interest in Newlands, Peebles
Thomas Buchan 2 Dec 1809
George Buchan 26 Sept 1811
Katherine Buchan 19 Dec 1817
Parents; Andrew Buchan and Catherine/ Kathrine/ Katherine Haddow.(Cannot see a marriage for them).
George Buchan can be followed in the censuses upto 1881 and is living in Colinton in Edinburgh.(Note earlier post that Robert George was baptised in Colinton in1873).
William
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I wonder if this is Andrew and Catherine in 1841:
Address Primrose,Glencorse, Midlothian
Andrew Buchan 74 Overseer
Catherine Buchan 66
James Buchan 34 Forrester
All born Scotland
1851 has this
Address Auchendinny,,Midlothian (in Glencorse CP)
James Buchan 45 b Newlands
Margaret Buchan 45
Ann Buchan 12
Mary Ann Buchan 9
Catherine Buchan Mother 78 b Newlands.
James can be followed in the censuses until 1891.He died 29 May of that year. His death cert.names him as the widower of Margaret Trail.His parents are named as Andrew Buchan(deceased) farm grieve and Catherine Buchan (deceased) m/s Haddow-informant John Hamilton son -in - law.
If the occupation of Andrew Buchan shown on Thomas Buchan's death cert is farm grieve,overseer or similiar this would help to confirm the link.
There is a death in the OPR's for an Andrew Buchan 9 May 1844 in Glencorse age 80. I cannot see a death for Catherine and woud assume that she died between 1851 and the start of civil registration in 1855.
William
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Do you think the name Vallance was maybe Thomas's mother's mn?
In my own experience of surnames as middle names I have found they follow through from the maternal line as the surname follows from the paternal line although this does differ at times although I haven't seen it too often.
Annie
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Has anyone looked at that death certificate of the 47-year-old Fanny Buchan in Peebles in 1891? I see that the index does not give another surname for her, so it may be that whoever registered her death didn't know who her parents were.
Also, if she was in Peebles workhouse in the 1891 census, the Peebles Parochial Board would have had extensive details about her, which might include where she was born and possibly where her husband was born. I have no idea whether the records of the Peebles Parochial Board have survived, but I would certainly recommend asking. They may be catalogued as Poor Law Records.
Start at https://www.liveborders.org.uk/archives.
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Lots of work done, well done everyone :)
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Thank you everyone, excellent research. I got the death certs for Thomas Vallance and Fanny Buchan, the informant for Thomas was a neighbour and he passed away at 14 Citadel St, Leith, 11/9/1881. As for Fanny it was her son, Andrew who lived at 52 Old Town, Peebles, gave her age as 47 whereas she was 43 in fact as on the 1891 poor house census; she passed away there 12/10/1891. I guess as he was only 15 at the time, he wouldn't have known her correct age or father's details as he was a baby when Thomas passed away?
Cr
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Looks like Andrew remained in Peebles - he married Mary Geddes Dodds in Peebles 17 June 1898.His parents are named as Thomas Buchan and Fanny Buchan m/s Gurr. He died in 1947 - there is a grave for him and Mary showing in Peebles Cemetery on Findagrave.
Going further back there are births showing for an Andrew Buchan 30 May 1794 and Anne Buchan 5 Sept 1892. Parents Andrew Buchan and Catherine Haddow. in Symington, Lanarkshire.( Not far from there to Newlands). I believe this is the same couple who had children later in Newlands, Peebles. There is a death for Ann Buchan mmn Haddow in 1859 in Leith - her married name was Thom. She can be identified in Currie, Midlothian in the 1841 and 1851 census. In the latter her p.o.b is given as Newlands -her niece Catherine Buchan is recorded with her in that census.
William
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Yes Millmoor I found that gravestone too, also the same couple on the 1901 census with 2 sons, one was killed in action 5 Mar 1916.
Wondering about Robert George now?
Cr
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There is a death for a Robert Buchan in Peebles in 1886 - age 13.
William
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Yes Millmore that is him passed away 1/2/1886 in the poor house.
Also found Andrew and Mary nee Dodds at 1911 with 9 children but the one that was killed in action isn't there unless they're mixed up, Mary's parents and siblings are at the same address?
Is there a cheaper way of getting the other 7's dob's, etc without paying on SP?
Cr
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Is there a cheaper way of getting the other 7's dob's, etc without paying on SP?
There's no way of getting certificates without someone paying something to SP.
You could try http://www.sctbdm.com/index.php but they only have tiny proportion of what is available. It relies on people who have paid for certificates providing the details.
Some people who have put trees online have added copies of certificates bought from SP, even though this is in breach of copyright. Again, the chances of someone having done this with one the certificates you want is very small unless they are researching the same family.
The cheapest way to get certificates is to go to the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh* for a day. You pay £15 and you can transcribe any certificate you like at no further charge, or print off pre-cutoff certificates (births over 100 years ago, marriages over 75 years ago, deaths over 50 years ago) for a small additional charge - I think it's about 30p per certificate.
*Or Glasgow, Inverness and Hawick, though their opening times may be shorter than Edinburgh's.
If you can't get to Edinburgh, you could hire a professional searcher to find and transcribe or print off the certificates you want. This might be cheaper than downloading the images, depending on what the searcher charges.
At £1.50 per certificate, they are much cheaper than English ones (£6) and a lot cheaper than certificates in most other countries.
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I wonder if this is Thomas Buchan pre 1871
There is a marriage of a Thomas Buchan to Janet Henderson in Penicuik 8 June 1838
1841 census has Thomas and Janet Buchan in Penicuik - both 30
1851 census has a Thomas Buchan b Scotland about 1808, a servant in Woodlee House, Patcham, Sussex - he is a coachman and gardener, showing as married presumably to Janet Buchan b c 1806 Scotland, a dairymaid. (Also in the household is an Alison Henderson b c 1825 Scotland, a cook.
The 1861 census seems to have them transcribed as Bucar
Thomas Bucar 52 b Scotland Cow Dealer
Jeanette Bucar 54 b Scotland
Jeanetts Gurr 15 b Brighton servant.
Address is Providence Place as in 1871 (he also appears in the electoral registers at 25 Providence Place 1861 - 1873).
There is this death in 1867.
Jane Henderson Buchan b c 1808 died Q4 1867 Brighton.
William
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Very interesting Millmoor, Alison Henderson mentioned is one of my ancestors but her sister Janet was b 1825, so perhaps this one b earlier is a relation of hers? Difficult to check though as marriage transcript doesn't show her or his parents-it's the old style marriage list?
As to SP looks as though I'll have to 'bite the bullet' and keep buying using the credit system; I know it's a lot cheaper than the GRO here but when there are a lot of children, it's still expensive!
Cr
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5 certs. on SP is less than the cost of 1 full price cert. from GRO, it's also downloadable there & then, no waiting on snail mail delivery, cheaper than anywhere else in the world with more info. than any I know of.
Annie
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Not disputing the value of SP's certificates, just that with big families and me being a not rich pensioner, it gets expensive.
Cr
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The 1861 census seems to have them transcribed as Bucar
Thomas Bucar 52 b Scotland Cow Dealer
Jeanette Bucar 54 b Scotland
Jeanetts Gurr 15 b Brighton servant.
The original reads
Thomas Bucan
Jeanett Bucan
Jeantt Gurr
Never trust a transcription (not even mine!) - see the attachment.
The site where I got that has transcribed them as
Thomas Bucan
Jennet Bucan
Jennet Gure
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The 1861 census
Thomas Bucar 52 b Scotland Cow Dealer
Jeanette Bucar 54 b Scotland
Jeanetts Gurr 15 b Brighton servant.
There is a birth of a Janet Gurr, mmn Henderson, Q3 1846 Uckfield RD which would cover Nutley. Henderson is also the mmn of Fanny Bennet Gurr on gro so I guess this is her sister as a servant with the Buchan family. Henderson strikes me as a Scots name so maybe there is a relationship between the Buchans and the Hendersons somewhere up the line which might have something to do with the move from Scotland to Brighton.
Pheno
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My post was written in order to help others to locate the census in question, Forfarian. I would be surprised if an experienced researcher such as yourself did not understand that.
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This is proving to be a most interesting topic as it appears that Thomas Buchan seems to have married Fanny after the passing of Janet, so presumably there must be a link to another part of the Henderson family in Scotland as you said Pheno.
Cr
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Another Henderson connection?
The 1871 census has Margaret Gurr age 7, a visitor with Thomas and Fanny Buchan.
Groindex has this birth Dec Q 1863 Uckfield Margaret Gurr mmn Henderson
There is also a baptism of a Margaret Gurr 13 Nov 1863 Danehill,Sussex. Parents Henry Gurr and Margaret.
Frustratingly I cannot see any Gurr/Henderson marriages :-\
William
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Yes Millmoor, Margaret (bapt 13 Nov 1863 private) was the sister of Fanny; their mother, Margaret nee Henderson passed away 10 days after the birth of Margaret in 19/11/1863.
Cr
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My post was written in order to help others to locate the census in question, Forfarian. I would be surprised if an experienced researcher such as yourself did not understand that.
I understand that perfectly.
I was attempting to make the points that (a) transcriptions can never be relied on and (b) different transcriptions contain different errors.
Neither the transcription you quoted nor the one I quoted renders all three names correctly.
An inexperienced researcher using the site I used would not have found the relevant listing using the transcription you quoted. Also, I have failed to find Thomas as either Bucan or Bucar or anything else on two further sites that have transcriptions of the England 1861 census.
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For information Thomas Buchan is transcribed in the 1861 census as Thomas Buran on Familysearch and, therefore , FindMyPast.
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For information Thomas Buchan is transcribed in the 1861 census as Thomas Buran on Familysearch and, therefore , FindMyPast.
QED :)
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My cousin believes that Janet Henderson was one of our original Henderson's and the aunt of Alison and Fanny. There is in fact a 2 year gap between the children of James Henderson b 1767 and Janet nee Idington b 1768 and there isn't another Janet in their family, so would go with the Scottish naming tradition of naming after the mother.
So thank you all.
Cr
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Hi all, sorry to join the party a little late. I am the 3X Great Grandson of Thomas Buchan's
Older Brother John. Thomas's parents were Andrew Buchan and Catherine Haddow.
Here is a wee list of names and DOB's of his siblings.
Anne 5/9/1792 Symington Lanarkshire.
Andrew 30/5/1794 also Symington.
Edward 2/4/1796 Newlands Peeblesshire.
John c 1800 ?.
James 8/1/1806 Newlands Peeblesshire.
George 26/9/1811 Newlands.
Edward Robert 30/3/1813 Newlands.
Robert 25/2/1815 Newlands.
Katherine 19/12/1817 Newlands.
Thomas married Janet Henderson in Penicuik 8/6/1838.
1841 census the Buchans are living at Old Cornbank Penicuik. He is employed as a farm labourer. After that he disappears until I read this thread.
It maybe of interest to you to know that two of his brother's, Andrew and Edward Robert moved to America in the early 1830's and were among the earliest settlers in what now is Wisconsin.
Regards David B.
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Thank you Tucbuchan and as you say being late at the 'party' you've confirmed what has been found out on here already. The part about his siblings is of little interest to me as his family is not directly related to my Hendersons'.
Cr