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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Paulo Leeds on Saturday 10 November 18 15:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Saturday 10 November 18 15:50 GMT (UK)
Dorothy Hallas born 1933 Leeds
Possibly daughter of Percy & Gertrude but not so sure now....

1939 causes major headache
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 10 November 18 15:59 GMT (UK)
This one  :-\


Births Mar 1933   
Hallas     mmn Ward   
Leeds South    9b   623

Marriage Dec qtr 1931 
Hallas    Percy   
Ward    Gertrude    (spouse Hallas)
 Leeds South    9b   966

Have you located them on the 1939 register - what does it say
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 16:03 GMT (UK)
Can we assume that Dorothy is deceased?

From FreeBMD - birth registration - March quarter 1933 - Leeds South - Dorothy Hallas - mmn is Ward

From FreeBMD - marriage registration December quarter 1931 - Leeds South - Percy Hallas married Gertrude Ward
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: lydiaann on Saturday 10 November 18 16:08 GMT (UK)
I see your problem.  Apparently, if a person is still showing on the 1939 Register, it is probable that they are no longer on this earth.  Obviously she married, as her surname now shows as Richards.  You could try and trace her forward from this, starting around 1953-ish when she would have been 20.  I suspect that the Register is actually showing the residents of a children's home as the previous records all show "This record is officially closed", indicating they are possibly all still living.  However, why she should be in a children's home on the outskirts of Wakefield while her presumed parents are alive and living in Leeds is a mystery.  There is a record of a Dorothy Hallas marrying John E Richards in 3Q1952 in Lower Agbrigg, which is a suburb of Wakefield.  It might be worth sending for this marriage record which should give the father's/mother's name.  I notice that there are a lot of Dorothy Hallases around on the BMDs and all in Yorkshire...could be tricky!
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 16:11 GMT (UK)
So Dorothy is not in the household of Percy and Gertrude in 1939 (although she does appear on the 1939 Register) - could that be because there is a new member of the Hallas family born 1938, plus the death of a child, born 1934, in 1938?

Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Saturday 10 November 18 16:14 GMT (UK)
I have:

Percy Hallas married to Gertude Ward (both deceased)

A son, Rowland Hallas (1934-38)

Then I have:

Dorothy Hallas and one other (male) born 1938

I'm not not sure if both of the second two children are Percy's
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 16:17 GMT (UK)
You may have to purchase a birth certificate then  :-\
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: medpat on Saturday 10 November 18 16:18 GMT (UK)
Would children from Leeds be evacuated - found it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/49/a2792649.shtml

possible reason why parted.
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 10 November 18 16:19 GMT (UK)
I'm not not sure if both of the second two children are Percy's

The birth certificate should confirm it.  As Percy & Gertrude were still together in 1939 why do you think the were not Percy's children.

Don't forget that the 1939 register like the census was just a snapshot of where people were staying on one night (29th September 1939).
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Pheno on Saturday 10 November 18 16:19 GMT (UK)
I guess you are wondering what the relationship of Dorothy Hallas b. 1933 is to Annie W Rodgers B. 1903?

I think the answer lies in the page numbering.  The pages seem to go from 122 to 126 so I think the head of the household for that property in John Street is probably on pg 124, of which there doesn't appear to be an image on FindMyPast.

pg 124 is on Ancestry but every record on the page is marked officially closed - peculiar.

Think you might have to investigate Mrs. Annie W Rodgers in more detail.

Pheno

Sorry crossed with all the other posts of same time.
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Saturday 10 November 18 16:53 GMT (UK)
I guess you are wondering what the relationship of Dorothy Hallas b. 1933 is to Annie W Rodgers B. 1903?

I think the answer lies in the page numbering.  The pages seem to go from 122 to 126 so I think the head of the household for that property in John Street is probably on pg 124, of which there doesn't appear to be an image on FindMyPast.

pg 124 is on Ancestry but every record on the page is marked officially closed - peculiar.

Think you might have to investigate Mrs. Annie W Rodgers in more detail.

Pheno

Sorry crossed with all the other posts of same time.

Lots of closed pages there  ???
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 16:57 GMT (UK)
1946 and 1947 Electoral Roll - Hemsworth - 15 John Street:

Annie W Rodger
Clarence P Rodger
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 10 November 18 17:09 GMT (UK)
Hi the Dorothy who married the Richards appears to be still alive in 2002 Electoral Register in Leeds with her husband?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Saturday 10 November 18 17:18 GMT (UK)
Did a Dorothy Hallas marry a John Rodgers at some point, 1957?
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 17:18 GMT (UK)
For what it's worth:

Percival Clarence Rodger married Annie W Oddy - Hemsworth - 1927

Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 10 November 18 19:03 GMT (UK)
Hi the Dorothy who married the Richards appears to be still alive in 2002 Electoral Register in Leeds with her husband?
Keyboard86

I cannot work out why this appears to be Dorothy, but their is a death in 2001 Leeds of a Dorothy b 17th January 1933?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 10 November 18 19:38 GMT (UK)
BUT when was the 2002 list compiled?  If that was prior to November 2001  :-\
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 11 November 18 07:44 GMT (UK)
Did a Dorothy Hallas marry a John Rodgers at some point, 1957?

There is a marriage, registered in Leeds - March quarter 1957 - Dorothy Hallas and John Rodgers/Sweaney.  If you look for Dorothy Hallas then the entry states that she married Rodgers or Sweaney.  John is only indexed under Rodgers.
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: lydiaann on Sunday 11 November 18 09:30 GMT (UK)
As I mentioned in my earlier post, there are many Dorothy Hallases in the records, all marrying different people (obviously!).  However, the 1939 register does state that her name became Richards somewhere along the line and the only marriage is the one I have described.  Of the puzzle regarding all the closed records, I am still firmly of the opinion that it was a children's home; it could be because, as you say, of the death of a sibling earlier and they put Dorothy 'into care' for a short time.  However, Dorothy did stay in the Wakefield area by the looks of things as that is where the marriage to John Richards took place. Either a birth certificate or a marriage certificate - or both - would probably solve a lot of the mystery. It might also be worth checking whether the address in question was a residential property or a children's home; I am sure some Chatters live within that area and could help?
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 11 November 18 10:02 GMT (UK)
BUT the 1939 shows Annie Rodgers as No: 2 in the household, and Dorothy as No: 3.  :-\ at 15 John Street.  The electoral register says that John Street is in the Parliamentary Constituency of Hemsworth, Polling District of Cudworth East, and Township of Cudworth.

If you search by address, there is no No: 13 John Street, so the possibility of an institution is feasible.  Addresses go from 11 and then 15.

Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Gibel on Sunday 11 November 18 15:49 GMT (UK)
John Street is in the village of Great Houghton. Just before all the backed out entries is listed as Thurnscoe Lane and Ebenezer Street both of which are in Great Houghton. Great Houghton is near Cudworth but nearer Thurnscoe. The area is now in Barnsley MBC in South Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 11 November 18 15:55 GMT (UK)
Yes, I had realised, but not got round to notifying the thread.   :-X
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 11 November 18 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi all, can we agree on at least one thing, the Dorothy in the "Childrens Home" in 1939 married the John E Richards?
Two of the births of this couple are living approx 2 miles from them in 2002 Electoral Register?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 11 November 18 17:02 GMT (UK)
Dorothy Hallas born 1933 Leeds
Possibly daughter of Percy & Gertrude but not so sure now....

1939 causes major headache

Do we need Paulo Leeds to come back and tell us exactly what he does know - excluding living names?



Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 12 November 18 17:23 GMT (UK)
Can we assume that you are no longer interested in this line of enquiry  :-\

Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Monday 12 November 18 18:03 GMT (UK)
Dorothy Hallas born 1933 Leeds
Possibly daughter of Percy & Gertrude but not so sure now....

1939 causes major headache

Do we need Paulo Leeds to come back and tell us exactly what he does know - excluding living names?

sorry guys, I don't know much else, but trying to facebook some people who know Dorothy's son
will get back to you
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 12 November 18 18:39 GMT (UK)
Thank you for coming back to us  :D
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 14 November 18 03:06 GMT (UK)
The Dorothy's sons surname may help in your quest ? but with your limited knowledge of Dorothy's life,? as to being a marriage woman with her husbands surname post 1939 or a spinster as Dorothy Hallas with an illegitimate child/children . It would seem your don't know if Dorothy (who would be 85 years old now ) is still alive or deceased as now.

We are not supposed to converse on Rootschat forums about living people or if its unknown if the person is living or deceased...………..?

Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Wednesday 14 November 18 16:53 GMT (UK)
The Dorothy's sons surname may help in your quest ? but with your limited knowledge of Dorothy's life,? as to being a marriage woman with her husbands surname post 1939 or a spinster as Dorothy Hallas with an illegitimate child/children . It would seem your don't know if Dorothy (who would be 85 years old now ) is still alive or deceased as now.

We are not supposed to converse on Rootschat forums about living people or if its unknown if the person is living or deceased...………..?

Dorothy is deceased
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 14 November 18 17:24 GMT (UK)
Hi again, "Dorothy is deceased" under what surname?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Wednesday 14 November 18 18:23 GMT (UK)
Hi again, "Dorothy is deceased" under what surname?
Keyboard86

This i don't know
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 14 November 18 18:32 GMT (UK)
 :) OK so who told you Dorothy was deceased?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Wednesday 14 November 18 18:58 GMT (UK)
:) OK so who told you Dorothy was deceased?
Keyboard86

her grandson, apparently
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 14 November 18 19:06 GMT (UK)
 :) This is getting a bit ifs/buts and maybes, it was a straight question, did the Dorothy in the "Childrens Home" in 1939 that you started this thread marry the Richards or not?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: dobfarm on Wednesday 14 November 18 22:32 GMT (UK)
:) OK so who told you Dorothy was deceased?
Keyboard86

her grandson, apparently

 ???
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Thursday 22 November 18 14:07 GMT (UK)
:) This is getting a bit ifs/buts and maybes, it was a straight question, did the Dorothy in the "Childrens Home" in 1939 that you started this thread marry the Richards or not?
Keyboard86

I have no idea
Title: Re: Can someone help me with someone please? (pulling my hair out)
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 22 November 18 20:22 GMT (UK)
Dorothy Hallas born 1933 Leeds
Possibly daughter of Percy & Gertrude but not so sure now....

1939 causes major headache

Do we need Paulo Leeds to come back and tell us exactly what he does know - excluding living names?

sorry guys, I don't know much else, but trying to facebook some people who know Dorothy's son
will get back to you

If you can find more info (from other sources - not Rootchat) on Dorothy's known son should be your best option to trace back from:- any info he knows like his birth certificate info - if he will tell you anything  ???
Title: Re: Dorothy Hallas Leeds
Post by: Paulo Leeds on Friday 30 November 18 14:35 GMT (UK)
so I spoke to her 'known' son who said he didn't have a grandad called Percy (Hallas)

so I must have the wrong person with the same name, strangely