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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: fionajka on Wednesday 21 November 18 23:09 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
Now that I have narrowed down the years between which William ARNOLD more than likely would have been transported to Australia I was trying to verify a convict record that has been linked to him - one William ARNOLD arrived in 1845 to Van Diemens land onboard the Pestonjee Bomanjee, but his conduct record states that he is 18 years old. Which can't be correct as he is a married man with 5 children.
I know that in 1841 he is listed in the Cutsdean Census as a hatter with wife Elizabeth and 3 children. 1843 and 1845 his wife had two further children. In the 1851 Cutsdean Census, wife Elizabeth is Head of the household and listed as a Widow. In 1853 she and all children immigrate to Hobart Tasmania Jas Radcliffe as the applicant.
So upon searching the Tasmanian Convict Names Index, and other sources I reach a dead end, presumably because the name may be not listed / transcribed as ARNOLD. Alternatives searched have been ARNOL / ARNEL / YARNOLD / YARNELL.
So I was wondering if there are any court records or transportation records at the beginning end that could shed some light on this man's move to Australia.
Cheers,
Fiona
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What makes you think he was transported?
What were his parents’ names?
Jamjar
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"William ARNOLD arrived in 1845 to Van Diemens land onboard the Pestonjee Bomanjee,"
This convict is 18 years old, a weaver, with native place Bermondsey.
If you are researching this family......
".. In 1853 she (Elizabeth ARNOLD) and all children immigrate to Hobart Tasmania Jas Radcliffe as the applicant."
Can you name the children please. Why do you believe that Elizabeth ARNOLD is the widow of a convict?
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"Great Tasmania" arr. 27 Jan 1857
ARNOLD Elizabeth 52yrs
ARNOLD William 24years
ARNOLD George 22yrs
ARNOLD Sarah 18yrs
ARNOLD Emma 14yrs
ARNOLD John 12yrs
NP for all is Worcestershire
Can you please identify this family in the 1841 and 1851 census record .
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William ARNOLD arrived in 1845 to Van Diemens land onboard the Pestonjee Bomanjee, but his conduct record states that he is 18 years old.
His indent shows that he was aged 18, single, father William, mother Mary, native to Bermondsey.
Debra :)
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"Great Tasmania" arr. 27 Jan 1857
ARNOLD Elizabeth 52yrs
ARNOLD William 24years
ARNOLD George 22yrs
ARNOLD Sarah 18yrs
ARNOLD Emma 14yrs
ARNOLD John 12yrs
NP for all is Worcestershire
Can you please identify this family in the 1841 and 1851 census record .
This family seem to be the ones in Cutsdean as mentioned in Fiona's opening post. Same children - ages fairly similar - all born Cutsdean, Worcs.
Cutsdean was in Worcestershire then from 1844 in Gloucestershire.
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"Great Tasmania" arr. 27 Jan 1857
ARNOLD Elizabeth 52yrs
ARNOLD William 24years
ARNOLD George 22yrs
ARNOLD Sarah 18yrs
ARNOLD Emma 14yrs
ARNOLD John 12yrs
NP for all is Worcestershire
Can you please identify this family in the 1841 and 1851 census record .
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-7
page 62 - 63
Baptist ... non conformist, and adult baptism, so do not anticipate finding baptisms for the children.
JM
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If it is not yours, I presume you have seen the tree on Familysearch?
William born 1807
marries Elizabeth Poole - 24 oct 1829 Worcestershire
died 14 July 1893 Spring Bay Tasmania
Elizabeth b 1803 chr 3 July 1803 Cutsdean "Gloucestershire"
died 17 Feb 1870 Spring Bay Tasmania
Both sets of parents are named but no earlier generations.
Unless you know otherwise, have you considered that William may have been a free settler? He may have arrived before the family in order to set up home. I think Elizabeth being a "widow" in the 1851 census might be confusing the issue. Might this be an error? :-\
Do you know who Jas Radcliffe is? Could he be William's employer?
Have you looked for other convict records such as ticket of leave?
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Ok to flesh it out a little....
Born 1807, Winchcomb, Gloucestershire to William and Hannah
1841 Census
Name: Elizabeth Arnal
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Bredon
Hundred: Oswaldslow (Middle Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Winchcomb
Sub-registration district: Guiting
William Arnal 30
Elizabeth Arnal 35
William Arnal 9
George Arnal 7
Sarrah Arnal 2
1851 Census
Name: Elizabeth Arnold
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Cutsdean, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Cutsdean
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Registration district: Winchcomb
Sub-registration district: Guyting
Elizabeth Arnold 48
William Arnold 18
George Arnold 16
Sarah Arnold 12
Emma Arnold 9
John Arnold 6
As to how I know William was a convict - in short, I don't. I am trying to verify what has been found by others. I have not been able to locate an immigration record for him, or a Pardon/Ticket of Leave for him either.
It is the 'Widow' label (no mistake on that one), on the 51 census that threw me onto thinking about him being away from the family unintentionally.
I'm also aware of "Cutsdean was in Worcestershire then from 1844 in Gloucestershire". Which naturally confuses things a tad. But since his son was born in 1845 I chose Gloucestershire to focus on.
I don't know who Jason Radcliffe is yet - he's another line of enquiry that I need to follow.
Like I said, I'm trying to verify info because I am yet to find the details of William's mode of arrival in Tasmania. I know he's with his family in 1841, Elizabeth is a 'Widow' in 1851, she and children migrate and meet up with him Tas, so I'm trying avenues on both sides of the world.
Thanks for your help though
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On the list of immigrants link pasted by majm, the 'name of the person on whose application sent out' is 'Jas Ratcliffe'
James Ratcliffe looks to has been a property owner at Swanport on Tasmania's east coast, which fits with there being Arnold family registrations for 'Spring Bay'
"in the service of James Ratcliffe, Swanport"
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article203387395
On an online tree, this has been noted as Elizabeth's death in 1870 - reg Spring Bay
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-39p150j2k
M
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......she and children migrate and meet up with him Tas, so I'm trying avenues on both sides of the world.
What do you have that places William in Tasmania?
Debra :)
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So Elizabeth's youngest child as per 1851 census was born 1843, 1844 or 1845 (aged 6)... and she is recorded there as a widow aged 48. Have you sought (just in case not Baptists) any baptism records for the younger children to check if the clergy noted any possible margin notes re any punative father ...
Not every person who arrived in Van Diemens Land was a person under the sentence of a civil court ... there were the soldiers who came as garrison forces, the administrative staff, the clergy, the surveyors, the settlers, many people came to VDL by sea who were not convicts.
If a female with children to support is found recorded as a Widow on the 1851 census I can appreciate that the word 'widow' may have a broader meaning than a person whose marriage has ended with the death of her lawful husband. So it may be possible that the marriage had ended by a sentence of transportation beyond the seas, or he may well have simply moved on, to a different town/county or migrated to a different country ... 1851 ... Gold Fever in California commenced in January 1848 ... Non conformists supported the Wakefield Emigration schemes ... New Zealand in the 1840s, or the Colony of South Australia .... or just about anywhere within the realm of the Empire...
JM
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https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-7
page 62 - 63
Baptist ... non conformist, and adult baptism, so do not anticipate finding baptisms for the children.
JM
majm notes that the family were Baptist, this page says that Cutsdean had a Baptist chapel from 1838, but probably not a graveyard
http://churchdb.gukutils.org.uk/GLS1200.php
If William did die in Cutsdean, where else may he have been buried?
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8774968 Colonial Times, Hobart 8 December 1853
AUDIT OFFICE, 3rd December, 1853.— Accounts for contingent expenses sent to the Colonial Treasury for payment between the 25th ultimo and this date : ......................... Towner and Townley, Thompson and Co, W. Jackson and Co., I. G. Reeves, G. F. Evans, Boys and Hall, A. Nicholas, The Immigration Agent, Hobart, repayment, &c. ; J Radcliffe, &c., assessments ; M. Fitzgerald, rent ; S. Hall, lime ; R. Pedrick, sweeping chimneys ; .....
JM
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Baptists could be with Methodists, or other Protesting denominations, or C of E but not likely to be with Roman Catholic.
ADD, sorry I was not clear, the above comment is in respect of where a possible burial for William the husband of Elizabeth if he died in Cutsdean ... :-[ :-[ :-[
JM
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So Elizabeth's youngest child as per 1851 census was born 1843, 1844 or 1845 (aged 6)... and she is recorded there as a widow aged 48. Have you sought (just in case not Baptists) any baptism records for the younger children to check if the clergy noted any possible margin notes re any punative father ...
Emma and John were baptised together in 1846. Father William a labourer of Cutsdean.
I assume that this is John's birth reg from FreeBMD:
Births Sep 1844
ARNOL, John
Winchcomb
11 489
However I am having trouble finding it on the GRO indexes. As they are using the original registrations and different indexing rules, this may mean that there is something irregular about it. I might just be blind too 8)
Debra :)
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I cannot see anyone named William ARNOLD or variatons whose personal details match in the criminal registers as being transported.
Most of the immigration records that survive are for the port of Hobart only.
Debra :)
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Perhaps you have forgotten this old post:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327166.msg3269125
He was transported as William HARNOLL on the Palmyra in 1846, and yes, he was assigned to James RADCLIFFE/RATCLIFFE.
You will find all of his convict records digitised here:
https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/?
Just put the name in the search box and then choose 'convicts' from the left hand menu.
Image of conduct record comes up straight away.
Description list is image 38.
Indent is images 52 and 53 (2 pages)
Debra :)
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Well sorted, Debra.
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This is likely William's death in 1893 aged 85
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-62p187j2k
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Debra you are a star.
I HAD forgotten that communication....thanks for putting back on the right track :)
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Hi all,
I too have the same dilemma with William Arnold.
Information I have, but can't verify, is he was convicted on 6th Jan 1845 for sheep stealing, sentenced to 10 years at Quarter Sessions Gloucester.
He supposedly arrived on the (Lady) Palmyra on 23 August 1846 where his occupation is stated as Slater and Plasterer (matching 1841 census). He was assigned to James Radcliffe at Spring Bay on 1st December 1847 and James Radcliffe was also the sponsor for Elizabeth Arnold when she arrived per the Great Tasmania in 1857.
Any information greatly appreciated.
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Hi all,
I too have the same dilemma with William Arnold.
Information I have, but can't verify, is he was convicted on 6th Jan 1845 for sheep stealing, sentenced to 10 years at Quarter Sessions Gloucester.
He supposedly arrived on the (Lady) Palmyra on 23 August 1846 where his occupation is stated as Slater and Plasterer (matching 1841 census). He was assigned to James Radcliffe at Spring Bay on 1st December 1847 and James Radcliffe was also the sponsor for Elizabeth Arnold when she arrived per the Great Tasmania in 1857.
Any information greatly appreciated.
:) Click on the live links that Debra has reminded all of us about at her post here:
Perhaps you have forgotten this old post:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327166.msg3269125
He was transported as William HARNOLL on the Palmyra in 1846, and yes, he was assigned to James RADCLIFFE/RATCLIFFE.
You will find all of his convict records digitised here:
https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/?
Just put the name in the search box and then choose 'convicts' from the left hand menu.
Image of conduct record comes up straight away.
Description list is image 38.
Indent is images 52 and 53 (2 pages)
Debra :)
and also read back through this thread and the thread mentioned above, and click on the live links provided
You should be able to view actual images :) of historic records and newspapers among those threads.
:D
JM
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Hi
About the only name you didn't explore may be https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/harnoll/william/28005. Arrived on the Lady Palmyra.
Like you have been searching for some time now and just did a wider search on pronunciation.
Fits all my other information on him from convict indents.
Regards
Lyn
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Hi
About the only name you didn't explore may be https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/harnoll/william/28005. Arrived on the Lady Palmyra.
Like you have been searching for some time now and just did a wider search on pronunciation.
Fits all my other information on him from convict indents.
Regards
Lyn
:D that earlier thread that Debra found was started over ten years ago and they found your William's transportation eight years ago.
:D
JM
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Thanks to all for information that finally completed William Arnold for me.
Regards
Lyn