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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: xsalamak on Wednesday 26 December 18 21:55 GMT (UK)
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Could anyone please help with the translation of the attached lines.
They are part of a much larger document from the Bishops Register of my local Church, St Marys Newchurch in Pendle, Lancashire, and date between 1579 and 1646.
I recognise the term Capale de Penhill or Pendill? which is a description used for the former chapel of ease in this village.
I am particularly interested in what appear to include either local place names or perhaps family names.
Geoff
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Ex parte honestoru(m) et discretoru(m) viroru(m) Jacobi Hargreaves Edmundi Stevenson Iconomo(rum)
hamleti de Goldshaue[?] Joh(ann)is Monknnolls[?] Will(el)mi Bulcocke Iconomo(rum) hamlet(i) de Barlee et
Whitley respective Joh(ann)is Hartley Millonis Nutter Iconomo(rum) de Rughley et Joh(ann)is Robinson
Iconomi de Oldland infra p(re)cinctu(m) dicte eccl(es)ie sive Capelle de Pendill constitut(i) nobis simil(iter) ...
On behalf of the honest and prudent men James Hargreaves, Edmund Stevenson, churchwardens of the hamlet of Goldshaw; John Monknnolls[?], William Bulcocke, churchwardens of the hamlets of Barley and Wheatley respectively; John Hartley, Milo Nutter, churchwardens of Roughlee; and John Robinson, churchwarden of Oldland [= Old Laund?], within the precinct of the said church or chapel of Pendle, likewise appointed by us ...
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I’ve translated iconomus as 'churchwarden', but in a more general sense it can just mean ‘steward’ or ‘manager’.
I checked out the local place-names here ...
https://www.genuki.org.uk/gazetteer/nearby?place=LANNewchurchinPendle
... and some of the personal names (or variants) can be found amongst the OPC indexed transcripts ...
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Newchurch-in-Pendle/index.html
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Good Morning Bookbox,
My grateful thanks, super job!!
The names would relate to church wardens (of the Booths of Goldshaw, Barley and Wheatley, Roughlee and Old Laund that make up the parish) and remain as local families today. There is a Manknowles Farm in Barley, and depending on the date of the document, a strong possibility that both William Bulcock and Milo Nutter were related to the "Pendle Witches" hanged at Lancaster.
If I were to send you a further extract of the beginning of the document I wonder would you be kind enough to translate it. This may then give me an idea what the document relates to and possibly a date. Actually, if I also enclosed the signature on the document I may be able to establish the date if it is signed by a Bishop.
Geoff
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You're welcome to post further extracts on this same thread. Several members can read Latin, and someone will no doubt help in due course.
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Thankyou Bookbox,
Grateful thanks.
Attached scanned image (1 of 2 as sent from Chester Archives). This first page includes the script that you have already translated.
Also attached are the last lines of the second page which includes the signature.
Geoff
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It’s a copy-document (written out and signed by a Notary Public, William Hill or Hall) confirming the consecration of the chapel-at-ease at Pendle by John Bird, the first Bishop of Chester, on 1 October 1544. The chapel was established in recognition of the inconvenient distance of Pendle from the parish church at Whalley.
The section that I translated above is the only part that mentions any individuals by name (the churchwardens). The rest is standard ecclesiastical wording for this kind of record from a bishop’s register.
I might have time to do a translation tomorrow, if you need one. The Latin is heavily abbreviated, and it will be much quicker for me to give you just the English, rather than provide a full transcription of the Latin with all the expanded word-endings.
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Hello Bookbox,
Thankyou, that would be good if you good precis the gist of the text in English. I have attached the remainder of page 2 if perhaps you could take a look to see if there is anything significant there, a date perhaps.
I really appreciate your efforts for this.
Geoff
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I have scanned the last image.
No date is mentioned other than the one in the second last line, already translated by Bookbox in Reply #5.
I can see only one thing that is new - a mention of the Chapel of the Castle in Clitherowe in the seventh last line.
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Hello horsleydown, thankyou.
Could you please enlighten me as to the context of wording around the Chapel of the Castle in Clitheroe please. The Church within the Castle walls no longer exists but there are extant remains of the Castle and approach.
What is the significance and meaning of a number of individual "words" in bold letters please?
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What is the significance and meaning of a number of individual "words" in bold letters please?
The words in the "bold" script signify the beginning of a section of the text. In themselves they are not particularly meaningful:
Preterea = besides, in addition
Ulterius = finally, lastly
In cuius (rei testimonium) = Standard beginning of the concluding clause of a Latin deed.
See: https://dictionary.thelaw.com/in-cujus-rei-testimonium/
Could you please enlighten me as to the context of wording around the Chapel of the Castle in Clitheroe please. The Church within the Castle walls no longer exists but there are extant remains of the Castle and approach.
I would prefer to leave this to Bookbox to answer. It's beyond my limited skill at Latin translation to give you an accurate answer.
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Thankyou again, thats most helpful.
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Here's an abstract, the best I can do ...
Consecration of a Chapel or Church in Pendle
To all interested parties, John [Bird], first bishop of the Diocese of Chester by the King’s authority, bids you greeting, grace and benediction. This is to notify you that we have recently consecrated a new Chapel of the Blessed Mary in Pendle within the parish of Whalley, in the county of Lancaster, in our diocese of Chester, because of the long distance from there to the parish church, so that divine service may be celebrated for the glory of God in a suitable chapel. To avoid any conflict that might arise between the Vicar of Whalley and certain inhabitants of Pendle, we have appointed as churchwardens James Hargreaves and Edmund Stevenson, of the hamlet of Goldshaw; John Monknnolls[?] and William Bulcocke, of the hamlets of Barley and Wheatley respectively; John Hartley, Milo Nutter, of Roughlee; and John Robinson, of Oldland. We have been asked to ratify this with a binding agreement that the income due to the chapel should be used to maintain a suitable chaplain to celebrate divine service there, on occasions determined by the churchwardens, unless otherwise instructed by the parish of Whalley. The Rector of Whalley will still receive the income due to him from the parish of Whalley, but the Vicar of Whalley is exonerated from duties of care within the boundary of Pendle. The churchwardens will furnish the chaplain of Pendle with everything he needs to carry out his duties. If outsiders who do not live in the hamlets repeatedly attend the chapel at Pendle and make use of its facilities to the extent that others are denied them, the churchwardens and the Pendle chaplain, and by special licence the chaplain of Clitheroe Castle, are authorised to prevent these people from attending at Pendle. Issued according to the customary rights of the Cathedral Church of Chester, saving the rights of anyone else etc. Sealed with the seal of our Vicar in charge of spiritual and general affairs, because our own seal is not to hand. Dated 1 October 1544, in the 36th year of the reign of [Henry VIII], and in the 3rd year of our Translation.
Agrees with the original
<signed> William Hill/Hall, Notary Public
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As horselydown86 has said, there is no further date here. It is a copy, signed by a notary, of the original bishop’s decree of 1544 and inserted in the bishop’s register, which you say is dated 1579-1646. To narrow down the time-frame, it would probably be best to ask Cheshire Archives to inspect the documents either side of it in the register.
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Bookbox and horsleydown - May I interrupt to say how impressed I am with these marvellous translations and information. Xsalamak is my OH by the way. I’m afraid my schoolgirl Latin of many decades ago is simply not up to the job, apart from the odd word and a bit of guesswork due to a knowledge of the parish, so I suggested he let Rootschat have a go and we are very thrilled with the results.
I know my OH will be along shortly with his own appreciation but just wanted to add my own thanks. (We’ve family here at the moment so there could be a slight delay.)
Maggie
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Hello Bookbox,
Thankyou you very much for your super efforts, I'm most grateful for the time you have spent. The detailed results speak for themselves. I will take your advice and visit Cheshire archives in the new year and take a look for myself.
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You're both very welcome. Glad to have been of assistance.
Please note that it’s not a full translation – just an abstract of what I perceive to be the main points (the perception of others might be different).