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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Brickwall Demolisher on Tuesday 01 January 19 18:38 GMT (UK)
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Hi, thank you for looking at my request,
I'm having problems reading 2 censuses,
1861 - RG 9 - Piece 321 - Folio 119 - Page 39 - Lines 10 / 11 / 12
West Street, Southwark is all I can read on this.
Only 3 people on this one.ALBERT is missing from those below.
1871 - RG 10 - Piece 601- Folio ? - Page 16 - Lines 17 / 18 / 19 / 20
54? Alfred Place
Parish - St.George's, Borough - Southwark, District - St.Mary's
Occupation section is the area I am mostly I interested in.
This Census record is so hard to work out, aged / fading, on the 4 people that interest me CHARLOTTE WENTZELL born Camberwell Aged 35, ALBERT WENTZELL born Hackney,Aged 33, HARRY WENTZELL Born Liverpool, Aged 16, ALFRED WENTZELL born Birkenhead,Aged 14. Mistranscription is also a maojor factor.
Many thanks for trying to help. Regards Just J.
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1861
Charlott Wentzell 25 wife married b Camberwell
Harry Wentzell 5 b Liverpool
Alfred Wentzell 4 born ?? - birth registered in Wirral Cheshire
The enumerator should be shot for such dreadful handwriting ;D
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The 1871 entry is as you have shown above
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Strange - they didn't marry until 1871 although banns were read back in 1859
Do you already have the full marriage details or do you want me to post them?
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Alfred Wentzell 4 born ?? - birth registered in Wirral Cheshire
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/wirral.html
Could be a condensed/abbreviated form of Birkenhead ? As in 1871.
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Could be a condensed/abbreviated form of Birkenhead ? As in 1871.
Certainly could be :)
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CaroleW / Bookbox,
Many thanks for your information. CaroleW thanks for your offer of the Marriage details but I already have them. I also have the Banns details. It seem's strange to us also why so long before marrying?. What also is odd that we have
find a birth certificate for Alfred. Cannot find at all b.c for Harry.
Alfred's b.c has his father as a James Wentzell. Albert certainly becomes Stepfather. It seem's we have, shall we say an interesting dilemma to solve.
Could either of you manage to work out what was written in the occupation section for Charlotte on the 1871?,
Many thanks again, Just J
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Fireman on steam boat?
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Many thanks chempat.Just J
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Fireman on steam boat?
Makes sense - he's a fireman on a lightship in 1861
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MabelB,
Any chance of detail's please, Regards Just J
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Ref is RG 9, piece 4447, folio 81. Albert is a married fireman b c1838, Hackney
the ship is called Moselle. She was out of London and 349 tons. I may be wrong about the lightship - that's how Ancestry have catalogued it, but I think its location on census night was Elbe lightship
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find a birth certificate for Alfred. Cannot find at all b.c for Harry.
Maybe he was registered under mother's maiden name? Maybe named Henry as first or second name?
This, as you already have, is Alfred:
WENTZELL, ALFRED SADLER
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A Page 430
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A lot later I know but there may be a connection :-\
Reynolds Newspaper 4 Dec 1892
News wanted of James Thomas Wentzell who in 1884 was living in Islington, near the Hen & Chickens; also Arthur Herbert Wentzell who in the same year was living in Penge. If this should meet their eye or that of any kind friend who could give any information of their whereabouts the same would be gratefully received by their brother L A Wentzell, Cape Government Railways, Salt River, Capetown, Cape of Good Hope.
James Thomas may be the one in this marriage
Marriages Jun 1876
Gare Joseph William Brentford 3a 121
Strugnell Martha Sarah Brentford 3a 121
WENTELL James Thomas Brentford 3a 121
WENTZELL James Thomas Brentford 3a 121
Wilson Sarah Ann Brentford 3a 121
ADDED: Parish records showed he married Sarah Ann Wilson on 21 May; he was a bachelor, farrier sergeant 20 Hussars. How does this compare with occupation on Alfred's birth certificate?
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Looks like James the farrier was b St Pancras c1838 (or elsewhere in City of London, depending on which census you look at), He was discharged from the army in Jan 1878, did get a pension
Suspect this is the family in 1851
James Wentzell 35 - b Stepney
Maria Wentzell 36 - b Cardiff
James Wentzell 14 - b St Lukes
Alfred Wentzell 12 - b Hackney
Andrew Wentzell 7 - b Lambeth
Maria Wentzell 3 - b Cardiff
Lewis Wentzell 1 - b Lambeth
HO107, 1573, 371, 59
1861 shows James and a different wife plus a younger son Arthur.
Very interestingly, James is usually shown as James John. There's a baptism in 1816 of a John James Wentzell of Mile End Old Town, parents Gotlib, a mariner, and Hannah.
When Albert marries Charlotte Sadler his middle name is Godlip
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James John marries Maria Roberts in 1836
WENTZEL, ALBERT GOTTLIEB mmn ROBERTS
Q3 1839 SHOREDITCH Volume 02 Page 319
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Mabel B / Josey,
Many thanks for the info / help in trying to help,
I have ALFRED WENTZELL b 1856 / 1861, 1871, 1891 but no 1881, His son HARRY was born Lewes, Sussex 1882.( I have his b.c. ) This is the only record of my family in Sussex.I have ALFRED WENTZELL'S birth details of being born in Wirral Cheshire. Father entered is a JAMES WENTZELL.
HARRY WENTZELL b 1854 ? His brother, I have his census of 1861, 1871 and 1881. 1881 is his last English Census. He leaves England and start' s another family in America. A bigamous marriage, never to return. Leaves behind wife and children. These written census record's all have him born in Liverpool. His wife, she marry's bigamously as well.
Have not been able to find his record of birth in 1854. His American obituary has a date of 25 th October 1854. The census, and word of mouth? are the only records that have 1854 and there Mother in the Liverpool area at that time. Their Mother, CHARLOTTE SADLER, it seem's was unmarried when she had the two boys, but it's always been an understanding that a JAMES WENTZELL was both of the boy's father's.
The censuses never ever show a JAMES WENTZELL only the Mother CHARLOTTE SADLER b Camberwell 1836? The 1871 census is the only census that has an elder male in residence with CHARLOTTE and the two boys. He is not a JAMES WENTZELL but ALBERT GOTTLEIB WENTZELL who was born 1839. His father was also a JAMES WENTZELL.
Marriage Banns have been found for the year of 1859,Poplar area, for ALBERT WENTZELL and CHARLOTTE SADLER but they do not marry until 1871. Which seems a strange thing ???
ALBERT GOTTLEIB WENTZELL b1839 has an elder brother JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL b 1837. He enlists for a Army career 1857 to 1878. 20 years in INDIA, returns and marries a SARAH WILSON
I would like to know if it's possible to search HARRY's birth by his Mother's maiden name only. Whatether the bastardy records of 1854 , Liverpool would be worth looking into, and where these records are accessible. Any help much appreciated.
Regards JUST J