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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: Marg59 on Wednesday 13 February 19 04:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm having trouble finding any info on Alexander and Janet (maiden name Fraser). Their children are Hugh b 1852, Janet b 1854, Alexander my g grandfather 1856-1943, Marjory (Marsley) 1860, Mary 1862, Flora b 1865.
Any help greatly appreciated
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Do you know when and where they died, and have information on their parents from the death certificates?
Added:
both born about 1821 from 1861 census?
Had either been married before?
Which censuses have you found them in, with parents, surely?
Have you also used scotlandspeople?
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This is from an online tree, does it fit with what you know as there are 2 or 3 similar men around?
Alexander Fraser
Spouse Janet Fraser
Father Hugh Fraser
Mother Janet Fraser
Birth 06/04/1825 Dores Inverness-shire Scotland
Death 22/05/1885 Dores Inverness-shire Scotland
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ScotlandsPeople has Alexander Fraser and Janet Fraser marrying on 8th June 1851 in Kilmonivaig.
Looking at the children's names, this could well be Janet's baptism:
Name Janet Fraser
Gender Female
Christening Date 05 May 1818
Christening Place INVERNESS,INVERNESS,SCOTLAND
Father's Name Alexander Fraser
Mother's Name Marjory Fraser
Bev
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Chempat, Yes i use scotsland people, and have that as Alexanders info. What I cant find is any info on their children other than Alexander
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You have put:
'What I cant find is any info on their children other than Alexander'
Do you mean that you cannot find them in any census, other than with their parents, and that you are unable to find any possible marriages or deaths for them?
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Hi which census do you have the family in as I believe I have Alexander Janet Alexander and Mary at Moor Of Errogie Dores and Flora at Boleskine & Abertarff, Inverness as a dairymaid
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Tree on Ancestry has these for Marjory's death:
FRASER MAY age 65 in 1925 121/ 10 Auldearn
JAMES MAY 65 1925 121/ 16 Auldearn
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The last Census I have for the family is 1871. The census has both Alexander and Janet as same age but have been told they often rounded their age.
I have Alexander b 6/3/1825 d 22/5/1855
Janet b 12/10/1819 d 13/9/1892 according to her death cert. her parents were Simon and Mary.
I didn't know Marjory could be shortened to May, so will look into that.
Thankyou all for your help :)
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Hi which census do you have the family in as I believe I have Alexander Janet Alexander and Mary at Moor Of Errogie Dores and Flora at Boleskine & Abertarff, Inverness as a dairymaid
Oops should've said this was 1881 census So if that online tree is correct and Alexander dies in 1885 have you checked if Janet is alive on any wedding certs to narrow down her death
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Hi Wendy,
No I haven't found any marriages other than Alexander's, Janet was alive then (1891)
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There's a death in 1907 Dores Janet Fraser other name Fraset age 86 which could be a possibility
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Hi Marg59, the Janet Fraser you have was the sister of my Husbands 2x great grandmother Mary Fraser , Mary married David Rose, Mary died age 45 in 1870 her sister Janet Fraser was present at her death. their father was Simon Fraser, a mason their mother was Mary Fraser ms Fraser. the further back you go the less you will find on the records and as you have probably realised Frasers married Frasers. I will see if there is anything else I might have that maybe of help, Simon I think was of Gorthleck and as far as the Rose / Fraser are concerned the stayed around Errogie and Farraline. Nikitah
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Hi Nikitah,
Your the first person who has had the same Fraser's :D, I also have Simon and Mary, but no dates as yet for them. I am going to Scotland later this year and have been wanting to find any cemetries or places that they lived.
Thanks Marg
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Marg59 Make sure that you get all the relevant certificates well in advance so that you know exactly where you are looking for. There are lots of folk on RootsChat who can help with finding places that no longer exist or have changed their names.
Some of the places mentioned in this thread - Auldearn, Boleskine and Abertarff, Dores and Inverness - are parishes. Auldearn is in Nairnshire and the others in Inverness-shire, between them covering the whole of the east side of Loch Ness and the River Ness, plus quite a bit more around the south end of the loch. That is quite a large area and you need to pinpoint where you are going in that area before you get there. There are parish maps and descriptions in the county pages at https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct (you have to scroll down to the list of county names - clicking on the map doesn't work).
You can read the parish articles from the Statistical Accounts of Scotland at http://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/home. These gives a lot of information that will help you to understand what it was like to live in any of these parishes in the 19th century.
Errogie is an area in the parish of Boleskine. There is a tiny village - see http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5522 and https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5622 - on the shore of Loch Farraline. Errogie House is north of the end of the loch - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5623
Farraline is on the east side of Loch Farraline - see
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5621
Gorthleck is a short distance south-west of Loch Farraline - see https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5320 and https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5421
I am not sure exactly where 'Moor of Errogie' is. I suspect that it was a name originally applied to all the crofts beside the track north of Loch Farraline and Errogie House.
For gravestones try https://sites.google.com/site/highlandmemorialinscriptions/home - but of course that only helps if (a) they had gravestones and (b) someone has gone out and recorded what was on the stone.
There should be burial records, which will be in the care of Highland Council. Have a good rake through the catalogue of their archives at https://www.highlifehighland.com/highland-archive-centre/ and if necessary arrange to go there when you arrive in Inverness to view the records - if you discuss it with them in advance they will have them all ready for you when you arrive.
You will have to hire a car and you should get decent maps - the Ordnance Survey Landranger series as a minimum. Do not attempt to rely on Google maps or (even worse) a satnav!
You are legally entitled to walk over most land in Scotland, provided that you do no damage and do not put yourself or anyone else in danger, and you do not infringe other people's privacy. The same does not apply if you are driving, however. Just in case you want to walk where your ancestors did, familiarise yourself with the 'Right to Roam' by reading up on the Scottish Outdoor Access Code https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
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Wow, Forfarian, that's some fantastic information, thank you . Marg59, Simon Fraser married Mary Fraser at Dores 19/11/1803, on the marriage certificate it says Gorthleck, it can be spelt in different ways. these are the children I have for them,
John 1805, Margaret 1810, Hugh 1812, Alexander 1815, Thomas 1817, Janet 1819, Catharine 1822 and Mary 1824, on Mary's it says Tomvoit, there seems to be a few big gaps but I haven't found any others to this couple. I think Simon may have died before 1841 because I can't find him on any census nor can I find a death, in 1851 at Boleskine, Mary I believe is living with her daughter Mary Rose ms Fraser although it says" Sister" to the head in this case her son in law ::) I have no doubt this is the widow of Simon and mother of Mary, it states " formerly masons wife". unless you know they went further afield I would stick with the Stratherrick area that covers south Loch Ness as Forfarian says you will need a car but you wont be disappointed. Farraline is a big house where my Fraser/ Rose family worked they lived with in the grounds at Balnoe this is now a ruin, as far as I know they are not related to the Frasers of Farraline. There's a grave yard at the side of the Loch you can't miss it just before Foyers my Roses are there but I haven't found Simon and Mary there's also one at Dores if you come in from Inverness that's the one you will see first the road goes right through to Fort Augustus. Nikitah.
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just membered there's another graveyard at Whitebridge, Nikitah.
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hi Marg 59, just checked Simon and May's marriage and noticed something I never noticed before, it was Mary of Gorthleck and Simon was of Clune, on the same day a Donald Fraser marries a Mary Fraser and he is said to be of Clune. more digging to do ;D Nikitah
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Tomvoit was further south, near Lochgarthside. It no longer exists. See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=57.2495&lon=-4.4414&layers=5&right=BingHyb but if you went there, I think there might be some ruined walls still left.
This is Balnoe https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=57.2595&lon=-4.3833&layers=5&right=BingHyb - as you say, it has also disappeared.
Digression - One other bit of advice for visitors to Scotland. Do not even think about driving a car in Edinburgh. The one-way systems are incomprehensible, it's difficult to move, almost impossible to stop, and if you can find somewhere to park it will cost you an arm and a leg. There is an excellent bus service, and (except when it's raining hale-watter and you really, really need one) there are usually plenty of taxis.
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Clune is less than a mile from the village of Dores https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.3856&lon=-4.3249&layers=5&b=1
Are you sure that the records you found say 'of Gorthleck' and 'of Clune' rather than 'in' or 'at'? Because in older documents, 'of' usually implies ownership of land. 'In' implies that the person normally lives in the named place, and 'at' implies that they are there only temporarily. (This is one of the reasons that FamilySearch has to be approached with caution, because it often uses 'of' when it guesses where a person came from.)
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thank you Farfarian, was just about to go up the apples and pears ;D so I checked the original it doesn't really tell me anything just , Simon Fraser " then what looks like a number badly written 12 Mary Fraser Gortlick 19 Dec 1803, the only reason I came across Clune was on closer inspection the Donald Fraser above Simon and Mary's, was followed by Clune and that is where the gap is for Simon so I assume that's " is ditto, hope you follow , Nikitah
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Forfarian, thanks for all that, I'm at my daughters at moment will investigate all the links when I have more than my phone.
nikitah, will also look into what you have said. It has really has sparked my interest. I'm visiting with one of my daughters and 4 grandchildren we will have a car
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nikitah, could you attach the image here so we can have a look at it? Not the whole page, but thje ones you are interested in and maybe the one or two above and below them?
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hi Forfarian, I really would love to, only ever time someone mentions doing just that I go into a cold sweat ;D I haven't mastered that, I did practice only to make a right mess of it, I'm ok at sending attachments by email so not sure where I go wrong. Give me a few hours and I will try and pin my husband down then we might manage it between us. Nikitah
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Thanks for the image, nikitah. I have cropped it and had a close look at it.
I don't think there are any grounds for thinking that Simon Fraser was necessarily from Clune. If you look at the fourth line, you'll see a flourishing 'Do' (meaning ditto) for the bride's surname. There is no 'Do' or even a quotation mark on the second line under Clune. I think the dot under the 'l' of Clune is just a blot or a mark on the page. Actually it looks to me as if the clerk had forgotten where Simon came from, and left a gap intending to fill it in later but never did.
I don't know what to make of what looks like the number 12 between the M of Margt and the M of Mary.
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Thank you for that Forfarion, that's what I thought the first time . I'm going to look at my other documents and see if the 12 or R appear on any of the others. many thanks , Nikitah.
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Hi nikitah,
Do you have a William Rose b approx 1861? According to the 1891 c Janet was living with a William Rose aged 30. Wondering if it was her nephew. On her death cert. 1892 in Daviot and Dunlichity it has an Alexander Fraser - nephew.
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Hi Marg59, David Rose and Mary Rose ms Frasers had a son William born about 1867, you can find him at Farraline in the 1881 census, age 14 with his father a widower and his sister Jessie ( Janet my husbands G Grandmother), not sure about the Alexander Fraser, a nephew, but I think it's Janet's sister, Margaret Fraser that is living with David Rose and Mary in the 1851census and she is a widow so presumably married a Fraser also a niece to David, Mary Fraser, so this could be Margaret's daughter, I will look into it later. Nikitah.
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My grandfather was born on 19 February 1875, he was named James Fraser McGillivray, and was the illegitimate son of Catherine McGillivray, of Elrig, in the Parish of Daviot & Dunlichity.
He changed his name to James McGillivray Fraser, and on his marriage and death certificate, he named his father as James Fraser, shepherd.
With the help of a genealogist, I discovered that his father was James Fraser, who was born on 12 March 1857, at Tombreck of Abersky, Stratherrick, in the Parish of Dores. His parents were John Fraser and Betsy/Elizabeth Fraser.
James Fraser (1857 - 1938) went on to marry a Jessie McGillivray from Coignashee, in 1888. She was the daughter of John McGillivray and Christina McGillivray.