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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: jillruss on Wednesday 20 February 19 17:27 GMT (UK)
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if I can successfully upload this, I'm hoping someone might be able to confirm that it says 'uncleanness'. Its an excerpt from a baptism entry in Old Meldrum, Aberdeen in 1803.
I have discovered it via a DNA match search - amazing where they take you, as this one started with very sketchy info in London and lead all the way back to my 3x gt grandfather Alexander Shepherd in Aberdeen. He was 70 in the 1841 census and his wife was 45 so I'd often tried to find out if he'd been married before. However, this baptism entry is for his son John by Martha Alexander but I can't find a marriage for Martha and Alexander. Would the vicar really have described this as uncleanness?
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I read it as a Son in uncleanness as well, Jill
add - illegitimacy
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Ditto 'uncleanness' i.e. it may mean the father attended the baptism but the couple may never have married?
Annie
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or worse.... not a nice thing to say about anyone …. Biblical. The term uncleanness is accompanied in the text by such immoral activities as adultery, fornication, lewdness, murders, drunkenness, etc.
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Charming! Illegitimate it is then - I can see the vicar (or whatever title he'd have gone by) turning his nose up as he wrote. How times have changed!
I was about to see if Alexander might have had any more little b's but Scotlands People seems to have shut down for maintenance! Typical!
Thanks for the confirmation. I shall have to message the DNA match and tell her. I think she's in Australia so may be interested (unlike a lot of DNA matches I message!!).
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Kirk Sessions minutes have even more details of such events, I discovered that my 3xgreat grandfather's brother and his (later) wife were found guilty of anti-nuptial fornication' in 1808.
Gadget
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There is a marriage of a Martha Alexander to a William Taylor in Old Meldrum in 1818 which might be worth investigating.
1841 and 1851 census has a William Taylor and Martha Taylor in Old Meldrum with a Margaret Alexander in household. 1851 has Wm. as a Chelsea Pensioner age 74 and Martha 70 - Margaret Alexander a 67 annuitant.
1861 has Martha Taylor as a widow, a pauper and knitter of stockings in Old Meldrum. Margaret Alexander is showing as her sister in this census. If the correct Martha her death cert. would hopefully give her parents names
Can I also say that regarding illegitimacy in this period in NE Scotland it was far from uncommon for the parents to later marry other people.
William
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The NE traditionally had a high rate of illegitimacy probably due to the ferm-toon system. A local minister blamed it on the quantity of dry horse litter about the steadings! ;D
Skoosh.
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Kirk Sessions minutes have even more details of such events, I discovered that my 3xgreat grandfather's brother and his (later) wife were found guilty of anti-nuptial fornication' in 1808.
I think that would be 'ante-nuptial' ..... ;D
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Kirk Sessions minutes have even more details of such events, I discovered that my 3xgreat grandfather's brother and his (later) wife were found guilty of 'anti-nuptial fornication' in 1808.
I think that would be 'ante-nuptial' ..... ;D
It says anti nuptial in the transcript which was why I wrote it like that ;D
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:)
Yes, well, ummmm, mind boggles ....
JM
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I cannot find my jpeg, sorry, but you will know what it actually read ...for I have one where the transcriber had it as anti-meridian ... and post-meridian ... I kid you not ...
JM
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Here's the transcript
https://info.dumgal.gov.uk/HistoricalIndexes/Home/DisplayDetailedSearchResults_Dumfries_Kirk_Session
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Can I just ask - if anyone knows this area of Scotland well - is Old Meldrum the place near Inverurie (about 20 miles from Aberdeen) or was it part of Aberdeen (I found an Old Meldrum Road in Aberdeen city).
The OPR in question (uncleanness!) describes Alexander Shepherd as 'in Aberdeen' so I'm thinking the first option?
Jill
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Maybe the child needed a clean nappy? ;D ;D
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Can I just ask - if anyone knows this area of Scotland well - is Old Meldrum the place near Inverurie (about 20 miles from Aberdeen) or was it part of Aberdeen (I found an Old Meldrum Road in Aberdeen city).
The OPR in question (uncleanness!) describes Alexander Shepherd as 'in Aberdeen' so I'm thinking the first option?
Jill
When I lived there (Aberdeen city) in the 1970s, it was the place near Inverurie.
Add - https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/Oldmeldrum
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Can I just ask - if anyone knows this area of Scotland well - is Old Meldrum the place near Inverurie (about 20 miles from Aberdeen) or was it part of Aberdeen (I found an Old Meldrum Road in Aberdeen city).
The OPR in question (uncleanness!) describes Alexander Shepherd as 'in Aberdeen' so I'm thinking the first option?
Jill
Definitely the town - the road in Aberdeen (Dyce, technically) is called that as it leads to Oldmeldrum, going through Newmachar en route.
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Thanks. I've found John's death cert in 1870 and not only is the age bang on (67 at death) but his father is named as Alexander Shepherd (deceased) nurseryman - which is also bang on.
Strangely, no mother's name given on the death cert.
So, DNA matches have helped me find an illegitimate son (+ descendants) I never knew he had! I love it when a plan comes together..... and, to think that in the early days after I got my DNA results, I was wondering why I'd bothered. Silly me! :-[