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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: odbsmith on Tuesday 26 March 19 13:24 GMT (UK)
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Looking through newspaper archives find one for a James Souch but not one I know yet. I cannot find a death for him that tallies or a census that fits,
Any suggestions?
Anybody have a James Souch that died in a accident on the Brighton railway in Sept 1858?
having problem with attchment ....will try again later
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It is possible that the death was not registered. James Souch died instantly & James Penny was not likely to live. They were hit by a train near Croydon
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My guess is that the name is wrong. It's likely that the newspaper reports are all based on a single report from a reporter at an inquest who wrote down the name as he heard it.
The death would have been certified at Guys Hospital and therefore registered in St Olave Southwark. The only such death that looks likely in that quarter is James Savage.
In London dialect at that time ( as recorded by Charles Dickens) the letter "v" was sometimes pronounced as a "w". So Savage could have been misheard as Souch.
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Thanks both.
Thats interesting ShaunJ, my experience with London accents is limited. Although Mum was born in Brighton and moved to London when a toddler, she joined the Land army and married and settled in Cornwall.
I didnt want to discard info that may prove useful later but it looks less likely that "james souch" is a relative.
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Hi as an aside, the surname Souch is mainly a Sussex or Oxfordshire one in 1851 census, so it does exist?
Keyboard86
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Yes, I have looked at the 1851 census Surrey and Sussex but failed to find a James Souch that fits the bill.
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Hi what "Bill has he got to fit"
Keyboard86
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If he was a plate layer one would expect him to be fit and healthy, and at the moment the only James Souch I can find in the surrey/sussex area in 1851 is still at school, 72 years old or a 37 yr old Miller who is still alive in the 1861 census. There is one James born Staines, Middlesex 1838, in 1851 he
is in Sunbury age 13, and I cannot find him yet in 1861, He would have been 20/21 when the accident occured.
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James Souch, born Staines, circa 1839
was in Army Service Corps
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5CQ-B99
Records on pay site, haven't seen them. Someone will say it wasn't called that when he joined!
James Souch, 1st Btn Military Train, is in the 1861 Worldwide Army Index.
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We can see the pension record in WO 116 of a James Souch, born Staines, Army Service Corps, on TNA website
2 August 1870
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C613575
Free, using the image viewer :)
Images 109, 110 (of 320)
That record is indexed on ancestry, by the way.
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Thanks jonw65, I think that can eliminate our Staines James Souch. When I've a clear peaceful spell I will reassess what happened to all the young James's, other to that I may take ShaunJ suggestion that the name is was incorrectly noted down.
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Is this the death?
Sep 1858 St Olave 1d 34
Savage, James
age 33
A burial record might help. Haven't found one yet!
But...
St Olave deaths that quarter start on page 33, so a death on page 34 would probably be in July?
Other names on page 34 include
Philemon Gatine, age 37
burial on 10 July is indexed on FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCGS-RZP
Also probate for Philemon - he died 3 July 1858
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=gatine&yearOfDeath=1858&page=7#calendar
Another one is James Rooks, age 40
Buried at Victoria Park Cemetery, 9 July 1858
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ9R-93J
So just from those two, I would doubt that the James Savage on page 34 could have died in September.
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Another issue is that "James Souch" was only 27 according to the newspaper reports. So there's my theory shot down in flames !
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His name was actually George Crutch and he was aged 37. The London Evening Standard of 4 September 1858 (page 7) has the correct name.
Death registered at St Olave, 1d 48. Buried at Norwood from Guys Hospital, 6 September.
The other man was John William Penney.
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Thank you ShaunJ, mystery solved. Definitely not a relative then! ( well I havent a Crutch in my tree yet!)
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Thanks everyone!! :)