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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: drfizzlebit on Saturday 30 March 19 09:59 GMT (UK)
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My grandfather (Elvet Lloyd - brother Evan Stanley LLOYD)'s father apparently ran away to sea in approximately 1902. I have heard a whisper that he ended up in Ohio, USA, and was a mason (stone, not free!). When I was a young child (approximately 1966), we were visited by two mysterious American ladies, who were called Gwynfa ADAMS and Florence (surname unkown) who were from Akron, Ohio. I was never told exactly who they were, and now suspect that Gwynfa was a relative, perhaps from a second marriage. I think my great grandfather (the one with itchy feet) may have been called David John LLOYD, but am not sure. Can anybody help please? Thanks so much!
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Welcome :)
We’re going to end up with duplication of effort as you have two identical threads, so it may be best to ask a moderator to merge them. Parallel thread here:
Deleted.
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So here is the family in 1901, before Elvet was born:
32 Russell St, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil
David John Lloyd Head Mar 25 Mason b Dowlais
Kate Lloyd Wife Mar 25 b Dowlais
Evan Stanley Lloyd Son 1 b Dowlais
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Then Elvet”s birth registration:
Elvet Lloyd, mother’s maiden name Polly, Mar qtr 1902 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 747.
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Evan's birth is shown as Even!
LLOYD, EVEN STANLEY POLLY
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 739
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Sorry AVM - rookie error. I will ask a moderator to delete the other post. Thank you.
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Thank you very much - that's a brilliant start (and probably the beginning of an obsession!)
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I think this is Kate’s birth registration:
Catharine Polley, mother’s maiden name Hanwell, Dec qtr 1875 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 435.
Then by 1891 she is Katie Polly in the census, with widowed mother Margaret J Polly + siblings (family indexed as Paley in 1901, and Poley in 1911).
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Then Elvet”s birth registration:
Elvet Lloyd, mother’s maiden name Polly, Mar qtr 1902 Merthyr Tydfil 11a 747.
I remember my grandfather talking about Mrs Polly - things were much more formal then, I suppose. Many thanks - so helpful!
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Possible marriage.... David John Lloyd to Katie Polley, Bedwellty, Dec quarter 1899. Vol 11a, page 127.
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Parent's marriage:
December qtr 1899
Bedwellty Registration District vol 11a, page 127
Lloyd,David John
Polley, Katie
Snap! Deirdre ;D
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1911 census entry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXW-8MD
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deleted
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Possible 1920 US Census?
Cleveland Ward 15, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Lloyd, David J M 44 b Wales
Lloyd, Sarah J F 43 b Wales
Lloyd, John D M 6 b Ohio
David J's parents both born in Wales.
Immigration year 1901.
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deleted
Thank you, and sorry!
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David John Lloyd and Kate Polly (as on image) were married on 8 Oct 1899 at the parish church in Bedwellty. David was aged 23, a bachelor, and a mason. His father was also David, a collier.
Kate was 24, spinster, father David (deceased).
Both recorded as living at 24 High St, Cwmsyfiog (New Tredegar).
Witnesses were Evan Lloyd and David Lloyd.
All signed, though Kate signed as Katie Polley.
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Possible 1920 US Census?
Cleveland Ward 15, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Lloyd, David J M 44 b Wales
Lloyd, Sarah J F 43 b Wales
Lloyd, John D M 6 b Ohio
David J's parents both born in Wales.
Oh my word - you're a whiz! Thank you so much!
Immigration year 1901.
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Left Liverpool 27 nov1901
D j Lloyd, 27 single Mason
SS Noordland
Arr. Philadelphia
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Parent's marriage:
December qtr 1899
Bedwellty Registration District vol 11a, page 127
Lloyd,David John
Polley, Katie
Snap! Deirdre ;D
Thank you so much!
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Astonishingly in his US Naturalization record (Arizona, 12 Feb 1948, a previous petition having been rejected in 1910) he includes the children he left behind in Wales! Though he gets Elvet’s name wrong.
His details:
David John Lloyd b 23 October 1875 Dowlais South Wales. Retired.
Fair complexion, grey eyes, grey hair, 110lb, 5ft 4in.
Wife: Sarah (b 8 May 1875 Aberystwyth, immigrated 1881) - married 26 September 1912 at Pittsburgh, PA.
Residence: 340 S 3rd Ave, Tucson, Pima, Arizona.
Children:
Evan b 23 December 1899 Dowlais and resides there
Elfred b 13 September 1901 Dowlais and resides there [Elvet was actually born 16 Nov 1901 I think?]
John David b 25 February 1913 Cleveland Ohio, resides Jackson, Miss.
Lawful entry to the US: at Philadelphia, 8 December 1901 on the Noordland.
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WW1 draft registration card (1918) give his date of birth as 23 Oct 1875, occupation bricklayer but presently unemployed on account of sickness. Born Wales. Wife Sarah Jane Lloyd.
Description: short height, slender build, grey eyes, bald.
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Left Liverpool 27 nov1901
D j Lloyd, 27 single Mason
SS Noordland
Arr. Philadelphia
Oh my word - I'm so excited to have this information - thanks so much
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1930 US Census:
Cleveland (Districts 251-500), Cuyahoga, Ohio, United States
Lloyd, David Head M 54 Bricklayer b Wales
Lloyd, Sarah Wife F 54 b Wales
Lloyd, John D Son M 17 b Ohio
Davies, Elizabeth Mother-in-Law F 83 b Wales
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Astonishingly in his US Naturalization record (Arizona, 12 Feb 1948, a previous petition having been rejected in 1910) he includes the children he left behind in Wales! Though he gets Elvet’s name wrong.
His details:
David John Lloyd b 23 October 1875 Dowlais South Wales. Retired.
Fair complexion, grey eyes, grey hair, 110lb, 5ft 4in.
AVM - that's absolutely amazing! I am absolutely bowled over by your help and this information - thank you SO much!
Wife: Sarah (b 8 May 1875 Aberystwyth, immigrated 1881) - married 26 September 1912 at Pittsburgh, PA.
Residence: 340 S 3rd Ave, Tucson, Pima, Arizona.
Children:
Evan b 23 December 1899 Dowlais and resides there
Elfred b 13 September 1901 Dowlais and resides there
John David b 25 February 1913 Cleveland Ohio, resides Jackson, Miss.
Lawful entry to the US: at Philadelphia, 8 December 1901 on the Noordland.
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They moved around a bit - they were in El Paso, Texas* when Sarah Jane applied for her naturalization on 7 August 1941. She gave her maiden name as Davies, birth as 18 May 1875 Llanelly, immigrated to Baltimore 9 May 1884 on the Hanoverian.
Edit: in August 1941 she was resident in El Paso but she said David was resident in Miami, Florida ???
There’s a photo of her attached to the record but none on David’s unfortunately.
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Death of son John D 2 April 1985
Los Angeles
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VG15-97J
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The Noordland on which David emigrated left Liverpool on 27 November 1901 - so very soon indeed after Elvet’s birth on 16 November 1901 (as indexed on his death registration).
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David John Lloyd died at the Pima county hospital, Pima, Tuscon, on 4 Jan 1954, of carcinoma of the lungs, and emphysema (10 years). Retired signalman. Cremated at the Evergreen crematorium, Tuscon, Arizona.
Wife Sarah Lloyd, parents David Lloyd and Miss unknown Howells.
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David John Lloyd died at the Pima county hospital, Pima, Tuscon, on 4 Jan 1954, of carcinoma of the lungs, and emphysema.
Thank you so much Deirdre 784 - that's so helpful x
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I wonder whether his lung disease was caused or contributed to by his former occupation as a stonemason?
http://www.hse.gov.uk/lung-disease/stonemasonry.htm
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Perhaps it was his ill health which promoted the couple to move south from Ohio to warmer climes.
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The Noordland on which David emigrated left Liverpool on 27 November 1901 - so very soon indeed after Elvet’s birth on 16 November 1901 (as indexed on his death registration).
I can imagine a young man getting totally freaked out at the thought of looking after two babies, especially in those days... the story I've been told is that his wife (Catharine/Kate/Katie) died either in childbirth, or very,very soon after Elvet's birth. Thank you so much x
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I wonder whether his lung disease was caused or contributed to by his former occupation as a stonemason?
http://www.hse.gov.uk/lung-disease/stonemasonry.htm
Yes, AVM228 - that crossed my mind too. And the warmer climes might make sense if the link between dust inhalation and lung function hadn't been recognised so much then.
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Gwynfa Adams May be this one in Akron Ohio in 1940
Household
Jane Jenkins widow 67. B South Wales
Florence E Jenkins daughter. 31 b Ohio
Bert C Adams son in law 37 b Ohio
Gwynfa Adams daughter 35 b South Wales
Richard B grandson 1 b Ohio
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The Noordland on which David emigrated left Liverpool on 27 November 1901 - so very soon indeed after Elvet’s birth on 16 November 1901 (as indexed on his death registration).
I can imagine a young man getting totally freaked out at the thought of looking after two babies, especially in those days... the story I've been told is that his wife (Catharine/Kate/Katie) died either in childbirth, or very,very soon after Elvet's birth. Thank you so much x
Not true see reply 11
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Gwynfa Adams May be this one in Akron Ohio in 1940
Household
Jane Jenkins widow. B South Wales
Florence E Jenkins daughter. 31 b Ohio
Bert C Adams son in law 37 b Ohio
Gwynfa Adams daughter 35 b South Wales
Richard B grandson 1 b Ohio
Was just about to post the same record, but was trying to work out a relationship to DJL.
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Gwynfa Adams died 3 Aug 1982.... birth given as May 1904.
Possible birth registration in June quarter 1904, in Merthyr Tydfil.... Gwynfa Jenkins (as on 1940 census), mother Davies. Vol 11a, page 749.
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I wondered about Jane Jenkins being a sister of Sarah Jane Lloyd. Except that’s too many Janes!
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JENKINS, GWYNFA Mmn DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 749
Born 1 May 1904
Father Rees Jenkins, can be found in Ohio from 1910 census.
Cas
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Gwynfa’s parents were Rees and Jane Jenkins, both born in Wales, emigrated in 1904. On 1910 census in Akron, Ohio, sister Florence E born 1909 in Ohio.
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Rees and Jane married 1894
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Gwynfa married Berton Adams in Summit, Ohio, on 26 Nov 1936. Parents listed as Reece Jenkins and Sarah Davis.
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Gwynfa Adams May be this one in Akron Ohio in 1940
Household
Jane Jenkins widow 67. B South Wales
Florence E Jenkins daughter. 31 b Ohio
Bert C Adams son in law 37 b Ohio
Gwynfa Adams daughter 35 b South Wales
Richard B grandson 1 b Ohio
Wow - thank you!
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That 1930 census has a column headed "Age when first married".
Both David and Sarah state age 34.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X43D-386
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Florence was born on 5 May 1909 and died in Akron in December 1974. Doesn’t look like she married.
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Several records of Florence (and one with her mother Jane) travelling back to the USA from the UK.
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I wondered about Jane Jenkins being a sister of Sarah Jane Lloyd. Except that’s too many Janes!
There's something going on with all these Janes for sure!
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Sarah Jane Lloyd (wife of David John) ‘s mother was Elizabeth Davies (1930 census) so maybe Sarah Jane and Jane were sisters, hence the connection.
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Thank you all so very much - you're brilliant!
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Elizabeth and family emigrated in 1882 so Sarah Jane was only 5 or 6 years old.
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Going right back to the beginning..... Elvet and Edwin Stanley and mother Katie Lloyd were living together at 34 Balaclava Rd, Dowlais, with Katie’s mother Mary J Poley until 1927 (electoral register).
Possible death for Kate, June quarter 1926, aged 50. Merthyr Tydfil.
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Going right back to the beginning..... Elvet and Edwin Stanley and mother Katie Lloyd were living together at 34 Balaclava Rd, Dowlais, with Katie’s mother Mary J Poley until 1927 (electoral register).
Thank you - Balaclava Rd is one that I've heard stories about. I'm also at a loose end with Elvet's wife (Winifred Jones b 1901), mother of Kate Dilys Lloyd (my mum). Apparently Winifred died when Dilys was very young, but I have drawn a blank. Thank you so much for all your help! x
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On David John's death reg, mother's name is given as Howell. I wonder if it was actually Powell and so this birth reg
David John Lloyd dec qtr 1875 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 425 mmn Powell.
Possible 1891 census
17 Cwm Canol St, Dowlais RG12/4438 folio 56 pg 23
David Lloyd head mar 39 coal miner b. Pwlly?aid
Ann wife 35 b. Dowlais
David J son 15 coal miner b. Pwlly?aid
Evan son 12 b. Dowlais
Thomas J son 6? b. Gellygaer
Evan Williams stepson 16 coal miner b. Pwlly?aid
place of birth could be Pwllyhwyaid
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did the family move before Winifred's death?
Winifred Lloyd 37 march qtr 1939 Neath vol 11a pg 982
:-\
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Elvet is at Victoria Rd, Port Talbot on the 1939 register with daughter Kate, so that death looks good.
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Death of Elvet in Neath, Sep quarter 1982, date of birth 16 Nov 1901 matches the 1939 (registered March quarter 1902).
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from the Western Mail dated 2 Feb 1939
"The Revd. Elvet Lloyd, Dilys and Mrs Jones, Aberavon, desire to thank all kind friends for their expressions of sympathy, letters, and beautiful floral tributes, received in their sad bereavement. Will all friends please accept this as an acknowledgement."
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from the Western Mail dated 2 Feb 1939
"The Revd. Elvet Lloyd, Dilys and Mrs Jones, Aberavon, desire to thank all kind friends for their expressions of sympathy, letters, and beautiful floral tributes, received in their sad bereavement. Will all friends please accept this as an acknowledgement."
Thank you - that's so sad. Dilys would have been just 6 years old :(
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That explains the ‘Congregational mines’ occupation of Elvet in 1939 ;D
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Yes, he was a Welsh Congregational Minister at Salem Congregational Church in Sanfields, Aberafan (Port Talbot). Thank you x
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Gwynfa Adams died 3 Aug 1982.... birth given as May 1904.
Possible birth registration in June quarter 1904, in Merthyr Tydfil.... Gwynfa Jenkins (as on 1940 census), mother Davies. Vol 11a, page 749.
Gwynfa Adams
The Akron Beacon Journal
Akron, Ohio
Thursday, August 05, 1982 - Page 73
Obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30077558/g_adams/
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Gwynfa Adams
The Akron Beacon Journal
Akron, Ohio
Thursday, August 05, 1982 - Page 39
Obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30077337/gwynfa_adams/
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Her mother Jane (Davies) Jenkins died in 1948.
DC: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X6R3-H5R
The Akron Beacon Journal
Akron, Ohio
Monday, September 06, 1948 - Page 22
Obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30078303/jane_jenkins/
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Those obituaries are brilliant. All those grandchildren and great grandchildren for Jane too 😀
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Those obituaries!! So much information - thank you!
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Anyone able to find a death / burial for Sarah Jane Lloyd?
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Some bits and pieces
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Reese Jenkins died in 1935.
DC: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X6WZ-SB7
The Akron Beacon Journal
Akron, Ohio
Thursday, April 25, 1935 - Page 39
obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30081341/reese_jenkins/
Passport application has photo of him & another of what appears to be his wife & a daughter on image 141
Passport Application (images 140 & 141): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKDN-3N1R
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son William J Jenkins died in 1962
The Akron Beacon Journal- (with photo)
Akron, Ohio
17 Jul 1962, Tue • Page 25
obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30080548/william_j_jenkins/
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daughter Anna (Jenkins) Rogge died 1945
DC: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X6FP-TMR
The Akron Beacon Journal
Akron, Ohio
Friday, August 24, 1945 - Page 27
Obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/30081959/anna_rogge/
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daughter Mary(Jenkins) Evans died in 1985
CADI: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VPXB-4W5
Mary's daughter Marjorie Mohler (mentioned in Gwynfa's obit) died in 2009
Find a Grave has picture as well an obit.
Find A Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/61891751
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Anyone able to find a death / burial for Sarah Jane Lloyd?
There’s this one in Florida 1949
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVGV-P8QG
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VVN7-SCX
I can’t at the moment see anything to help prove though.
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RJ137 - brilliant.
Thanks Mckha49 - dates fit. 😀
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What about a marriage for John David LLOYD b 1913?
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ok, think I may a link between the families.
1881 census 28 Pwllyhwyliad, Merthyr Tydfil RG11/5312 folio 8 pg 14
Jno Jenkins head mar 42 coal miner
Ann wife 40
David son 17 coal miner
Jno son 15 coal miner
Wm son 13 b. Merthyr
Hannah dau 11 b. Merthyr
Jane dau 9 b. Merthyr
Rees son 7 b. Merthyr
Morgan son 5 b. Merthyr
all other birth noted as Glamorgan
birth reg Rees Jenkins june qtr 1874 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 471 mmn Polley
possible marriage John Jenkins sept qtr 1859 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 391 with Ann Polly on the same page
possible marriage for parents of Katie
David Polly sept qtr 1867 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 543 with Margaret Jane Anwyl on the same page
1851 census Waunfawr HO107/2458 folio 239 pg 41
Thomas Polley head mar 35 collier
Ann wife 33
Ann dau 10
Thomas son 8
David son 6
Hannah dau 4
William son 2
Rees son 1
1871 census the Jenkins & widowed Ann Polly & family are next to each other RG10/5394 folio 23 pg 16
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Oh boy - that's wonderful. Interesting that the name for Katie's possible mother is Annwyl there, but I had Hanwell, which is an Anglicised prononciation.... Thank you all so much x
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1871 census 26 Sand St, Merthyr Tydfil RG10/5399 folio37 pg 20
David Polly head mar 25 coal miner b. Dowlais
Margaret Jane wife 21 b. Cards, Aberystwyth
Mary Ann dau 3 b. Dowlais
Thomas son 11 months b. Dowlais
1891 15 Sand St RG12/4439 folio 28 pg 19
Margaret J Polly head wid 40 housekeeper b. Taliesin nr Aberystwyth
Margaret E dau 19 cleaning schools
Evan Thomas son 17 collier
Katie dau 15 dressmaker
David W son 14
+boarders
children all born Dowlais
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That looks great Osprey, though i’m stumped as to what relationship those in America are to each other 🤔
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well, Rees Jenkins is related to the Polly family, his mother being Ann Polly, and Katie who married David John Lloyd was the daughter of David Polly, Ann's younger brother. Rees was Katie's cousin.
marriage 4 July 1859 at Dowlais parish church
John Jenkins 21 bach miner Dowlais, father David, collier &
Ann Polly 18 spin Dowlais, father Thomas, collier
witnesses Elizabeth Polly & Mary Jones, all marked.
Marriage of Ann's father
2 Dec 1839 parish church of Merthyr Tydfil
Thomas Poly full bach collier Penwaunfawr, father Thomas, collier
Ann Morgans full spin Penwaunfawr, father David, collier
witnesses W Rowland & Thomas Llewellyn. Only W Rowland signed.
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Thanks osprey, i would have had to put all that in a tree to work it out. A great story put together in one day 😀
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I don’t think this has been posted while I have been asleep... forgive me if it has
Sarah Janes’s Family per Baltimore shipping list
Eliza 37 Wife
Margaret 12
Eliza 10
Sarah 8
Mary 5
Thomas 3
All going to Newburgh Ohio. 3 pieces of baggage.
Because...although it seems like a very strange thing, I can’t help thinking David John despite running off and leaving his wife and children, has managed to “marry” one of her relatives!
Can anyone find that 1912 marriage?
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I don’t think this has been posted while I have been asleep... forgive me if it has
Sarah Janes’s Family per Baltimore shipping list
Eliza 37 Wife
Margaret 12
Eliza 10
Sarah 8
Mary 5
Thomas 3
All going to Newburgh Ohio. 3 pieces of baggage.
Because...although it seems like a very strange thing, I can’t help thinking David John despite running off and leaving his wife and children, has managed to “marry” one of her relatives!
Think that was what confused me 😀
Couldn’t find the marriage when i looked earlier.
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Oh you lot are AWESOME! Thank you for helping me to fill in the story - really very grateful x
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David’s passenger list entry on the Noordland in 1901 shows that he was going to his “uncle” Thos Davies of 17th Ave, Homestead, PA, who had paid his passage.
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I don't think Sarah Jane is related to Katie. Gwynfa Adams & Florence Jenkins are related to her though.
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Anyone able to find a death / burial for Sarah Jane Lloyd?
There’s this one in Florida 1949
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVGV-P8QG
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VVN7-SCX
I can’t at the moment see anything to help prove though.
If this is her, it’s after the death of Jane Jenkins, and she is NOT listed as a surviving sister in Janes obit.
Perhaps it’s pure chance that David Lloyd ended up in the same state as his wife’s relatives and they didn’t actually know each other. (I suppose quite a few Welsh were going to the mines at the time)
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I just thought you might like to see a photograph of Elvet (standing), Stanley (seated) and their mother. Thank you all xx
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Lovely photo 😀
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lovely photo!
On one of Sarah Jane's records she gives her birthplace as Aberystwyth and on another Llanelly, so this possible family in 1881
1 George Street, Aberyswyth RG11/5445 folio 105 pg 46
John Davies head mar 35 mason b. Llanbadarnfawr
Elizabeth wife 34 b. Llanbadarnfawr
Margaretta dau 12 b. Llanbadarnfawr
Elizabeth A dau 10 b. Llanbadarnfawr
Sarah J dau 6 b. Llanelly
Mary D? dau 4 b. Llanelly
Thomas son 1 month b. Aberystwyth