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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: Vasquez109 on Tuesday 23 April 19 01:14 BST (UK)
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I've been researching/getting things wrong for the last 10 years, I suppose I must be classed as experienced, but still a beginner as I'm still quite inexperienced in pre-1837 researching techniques.
Once the 1841 census has served its purpose (and luckily in my case, the 1821 census for the village of Veryan in Cornwall) and the need to use parish records starts, thats where things start going wrong for me.
I do realise that with parish records, relationships cannot always be proven as several possibilities for baptisms occur. Take the case of Henry Webb, carpenter of Veryan, Cornwall. He was born in the parish Gerrans according to his marriage. So going through the Gerrans register came up with two possibilities.
A baptism for 'Henery Webb' is to be found in the Gerrans register for 26 Dec 1773, but the burial register his age shows him being born in 1771. There is also another baptism in the register for 'Hennery Webb' for 13 Aug 1769.
This also happens in several other areas of my tree, and find it grossly unfair how other people go back to 1750's and before. its not too much to ask to reach 1750 with a degree of accuracy in at least one of my 16 Great grandparents lines is it? Yet in 12 of these lines, correct lineage cannot be proven.
Im wondering, is there a guide to working with parish records and what are your do's and don'ts of using parish records?
A friend of mine (who is quite knowledgable about the county of Glamorgan) often gets short with me and says things like "Well....have you tried looking in the .....*fill in as appropriate*"?
Often my response is "No! Never heard of it". Is there a pecking order for other sources when parish records arent particularly helpful? And what other sources do you tend to use next?
I know not all parishes have records going back to the 1530's and im not expecting to get back to there. Id rather not be able to find someone than play the multiple choice game. Really does get on my nerves.
Sorry...rant over!
David.
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You say "He was born in the parish Gerrans according to his marriage."
Wrong! ;D
The marriage entry will say "of this parish" or "of the parish of xxxx".
This refers to the place of residence at the time of marriage and does NOT refer to a place of birth.
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Thanks. Very helpful...
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Quick thoughts
Marriage was at St Anthony in Roseland. John Pasco was a witness.
Banns were also called in Veryan
Sojourner in this parish is in it somewhere!
Henry Webb was buried at Veryan, 28 January 1808, age 37
So that perhaps makes 1770 a more likely year of birth than 1771.
There is also an administration for him in 1808.
The baptism of Hennery at Gerrans in 1769 has parents John + Sarah
There is a burial at Veryan in 1790 of a John Webb, age 50
And a marriage at Veryan in 1792 of a Sarah Webb, widow, to Richard Curgenven. Was she buried in Veryan in 1829, age 80?
Husband Richard seems to have died in 1811 and left a will
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XY9-15R?i=1703&cat=329778
But are they the same John + Sarah?
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Was she buried in Veryan in 1829, age 80?
Maybe the Sarah Pasco (Pascoe on Cornwall OPC) bap 17 Dec 1749, Gerrans, father John
Marriage there, 31 July 1768, John Webb + Sarah Pasco
Could the 1792 marriage witness John Pasco have been a relation? :-\
A John Pasco was also a witness to the will of Richard Curgenven...
...which mentions Ann Webb (and her house), Dorothy Webb, Sarah Webb
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There is also an administration for him in 1808.
Bond here, see also previous image (ditto the Richard will)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNT-79HB-6?i=172&cat=329778
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Image of the 1792 marriage of Henry and Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZZW-FMN?i=24&cc=1769414
and we can compare the signatures of John Pasco!
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Hope you found some of that useful.
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This refers to the place of residence at the time of marriage and does NOT refer to a place of birth.
It doesn't refer to anything. Gerrans was not mentioned on the marriage record.
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This refers to the place of residence at the time of marriage and does NOT refer to a place of birth.
It doesn't refer to anything. Gerrans was not mentioned on the marriage record.
You say "He was born in the parish Gerrans according to his marriage."
Wrong! ;D
The marriage entry will say "of this parish" or "of the parish of xxxx".
This refers to the place of residence at the time of marriage and does NOT refer to a place of birth.
As far as I can see, KGarrad was not claiming that the m.c. mentioned Gerrans. To me, KG clearly explained that the m.c. would be providing with information that would be current at the time of that marriage - 'of this parish' or 'of the parish of xxxxx' is of course giving a location, and KG clearly noted the info does NOT refer to a place of birth.
:D :D
And, I gently mention that there is a marriage registered on that image for a Stephen HAYES of the parish of Gerrans, Bachelor and Elizabeth OXENBURY, otp (St Anthony of Roseland) .... :D
JM
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some geographical info about the parish of St Anthony in Roseland.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CON/StAnthonyinRoseland/
The parish of St Anthony-in-Roseland, (Cornish: Sen Anta), is situated in the Deanery and Hundred of Powder. It is bounded on the south by the English Channel, on the west by the estuary of Falmouth harbour, on the north by St Mawes creek, and on the east by Gerrans. It is believed that the parish was once an island. From the narrow isthmus by which it is joined to Gerrans, to the point of the entrance to Falmouth harbour, it is about two and a half miles long, by half a mile wide. ......
The parish no longer exists as a civic unit; it was incorporated into the parish of Gerrans in 1934.
.....
Most parish and church description(s) on these pages are from Lake's Parochial History of the County of Cornwall by J Polsue (Truro, 1867 - 1873)
JM
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All I was doing was trying to help out the OP with his Henry Webb problem.
Obviously I didn't do a very good job, let's hope someone else can do better.
John
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It's also odd how the title of this thread seems to have suddenly changed...
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:) Yes, I agree that we are all trying to help the OP. I am simply pointing out that the m.c. does conform to the pattern that KG noted in his/her post, and I have found the detailed geographical description for that particular parish.
I am in NSW, Australia, and some of my migrant ancestors were from Cornwall, they came speaking Cornish as their mother tongue, and for several generations after them, descendants were able to keep the language alive within the family...
JM
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It's also odd how the title of this thread seems to have suddenly changed...
WoW
Well my reply is on Available Resources ... There's magic afoot ...
JM
ADD my reply #13 is on Available Resources as a topic, but my reply #14 is on A baptism for Henery Webb, Gerrans register for 26 Dec 1773 ....
I am well and truly confuddled NOW ................... ::) ::) ::)
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Hello I had changed it and moved it because it was posted in the beginneers section which is there for new folk with under 200 posts.
Regards
Sarah
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Agh, thanks Sarah, that's great news, I should have realised.
JM
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Hi everyone. And thank you all for your help.
This post isnt really about asking for help for my Webb problem, I was really asking about what avenues people go down when researching pre-1837. It was just an example of one of the problems I have.
It really was kind of everyone to try and help which I really do appreciate. But my main question really is in my first post. Im really after advice on how people use parish records and what other avenues people go down to try and prove a link.
Also, this posts title has been changed and moved to Other Countries > Europe ???
Many thanks,
David.
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Some thoughts re looking back before civil registrations for bdm ...
:D :D Back in the decades and decades before family history became armchairable via the internet, there were groups of people who transcribed the parish registers and put their findings into books, and these books were available to other groups, and via public libraries, .... so people in Australia who had migrant ancestors from say Cornwall, could look through those books, either at their local family history rooms, or at the main Public Libraries... And, in turn those looker uppers were able to transcribe local records (baptisms, burials, marriages, probates, newspaper cuttings, etc) and print off books and send those books to groups 'overseas'...
Alternatives to parish registers
* Newspapers - many are being digitised by various organisations around the globe. Some are freely available ... for example, the Trove resource from the National Library of Australia includes newspapers and various Government Gazettes .... births, engagements, marriages, deaths, funerals, probates, sequestrations, publicans licences, grants of land, selling of property, passenger lists on shipping, legal notices, etc https://trove.nla.gov.au/ ... New Zealand also has similar resource: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ and of course, the newspapers in the colonies carried news from the UK :D including bdm type announcements. Both those resources are already listed on the respective RChat Resources Boards.
* RChat's resources boards are great, here's Cornwall's https://www.rootschat.com/forum/cornwall-resources-offers/
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=490272.0 - This live link is one you have provided, back in 2010. And, thanks to you, I was able to sort out one of my 'brickwalls' back then ... :)
JM
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I do remember seeing a guide a few years ago online, or it could even possibly been a Youtube video. It showed a step by step guide of using the information found within the registers, and what other resources will work with them to make any possible links.
It also showed how to be a detective and calculate possible family links where the registers on their own prove too difficult. For example 3 Joe Bloggs baptised within the same year.
Has anyone else read or watched the video? I thought it was good at the time and forgot to bookmark it... ::) :(
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Perhaps you were looking at Family Search options
https://www.familysearch.org/en/
Help Center
Getting Started
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Helper Resources
for example : http://broadcast.lds.org/elearning/FHD/Community/en/FamilySearch/England/L4_Church%20Records/player.html
JM
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You could read this by Anthony Camp
Dead end or new beginning?
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Dead_end_or_new_beginning%3F
You could also go over what I have already written regarding H, which includes
noting people of the same name in the parish register (could John Webb buried in Veryan, and the widowed Sarah Webb who remarried there have been H's parents?)
marriage witnesses - in H's case one was a regular, but John Pasco is interesting (but Pasco/Pascoe seems to be a common name in those parts)
wills - you should look for any Webb wills in the area of course and those of other names that may come up in researches. In that will of Richard Curgenven, second husband of Sarah, could the Ann Webb mentioned have been H's widow?
Do look for parish chest/poor law records - I don't know what survives for the parishes we have been looking at, unfortunately there is nothing available on FamilySearch for Veryan
Check the archives catalogue, this is where I found the wills/administrations indexed.
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm
You could also go to library and borrow some books on genealogy/family history.
One great one for these kind of problems is The Family Tree Detective by Colin D Rogers.
Preview here
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I1OVhi9aoFQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
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I am adding nothing to the debate, but I am amused that this Cornwall subject is currently in the Europe section. I am on the border, but on the civilised side (Devon), and know the Cornish see themselves another place from England. Maybe RC mods know something we don’t!,😀
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The post was posted in the beginneers section which was the wrong place and a quick read did not make it obvious where it should be - if it is not obvious I have to guess.
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The post was posted in the beginneers section which was the wrong place and a quick read did not make it obvious where it should be - if it is not obvious I have to guess.
Thanks Sarah