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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: kimmit on Sunday 28 April 19 06:37 BST (UK)
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Sir/Mam
If anyone can please help me in finding information on
Francis Osborne White b 1860 Croydon Surrey England married 8 April 1886 Addiscombe Surrey England to Lydia Jane Pool b 18 March 1868 Stroud Gloucestersrire England
children
Francis George White b 1887 Croydon d 1964 N.S.W Australia
Florence Lydia White 1890 Croydon
Alice Lena White 1891 Croydon
Richard Victor White 1893 Croydon
Violet Hilda White 1895 Cardiff Wales
Robert Horace White 1887 Cardiff Wales
If any one has any information it would be greatly appreciated, any help welcome, with many thanks for your time
Kim
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How confident are you of 1860 birth
There is this one
WHITE, FRANCIS OSBORNE PARKER
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 180
Father is Robert White (from marriage)
Baptism of Francis Osborne White. son of Robert George White and Eliza. Dob 17 Dec 1863. Robert is a coachman Croydon St John, Surrey
Possible marriage of parents
Marriages Dec 1860 (>99%)
Jordan Catherine Reigate 2a 229
Parker Eliza Reigate 2a 229
Stillwell John Reigate 2a 229
White Robert George Reigate 2a 229
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Marriage was Betchworth. Surrey.
Indexed on Ancestry as Eliza Pasher.
Fathers are Jeremiah White and James Parker.
I have no idea what the fathers’ occupations are
There are at least 6 witnesses to the marriage.
What is it you actually want to know?
All this information seems freely available.
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From Family Search.
Born. 17 Dec 1863. Baptised 10 April 1864. Parents Roger George and Eliza. St John the Baptist, Croyden
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hello there thank you so much for your reply the first one is the one i am looking for Francis parents were Robert White and Eliza. The date is unclear i have 1860 and 1863 for Francis birth also a date of 17 Dec but not sure where they came from as in the dates both have a question mark but i am sure his parents are Robert George White and Eliza. So on the right track, trying to find more on their children now i know they are the right ones your help is greatly appreciated, with many thanks, if you are able to help in any other way i would be really great full regards Kim
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2 other sons. Baptisms etc are on Ancestry
Censuses on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22Francis%20o%22~%20%2Bsurname%3AWhite~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ACroydon~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1863-1864~
WHITE, GEORGE ROBERT PARKER
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 187
WHITE, ARTHUR RICHARD PARKER
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 181
Added, baptisms also on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AWhite~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ACroydon~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1860-1870~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3A%22Robert%20george%22~%20%2Bfather_surname%3AWhite~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3AEliza~
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many, many thanks for your help i will look into family search hopefully it will have Francis Osborne White and Eliza children, again your help is very appreciated thank you
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ment to say Francis Osbourne White and Lydia Jane Poole children in family search thanks
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You can use the GRO site you have to register but is free to search, to enter Mother’s maiden name. To track down children who may be born and die between censuses
And for get more details eg Richard Victor 1893 was actually Richard Victor Maurice
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
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Again thank you so very much for your help. can't find too much on Francis Osborne White and Lydia Poole children in Family Search maybe doing it not right new at this but will try the other web site you have given many thanks again Kim
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1891
Croydon
Sub Schedule Number 35
Piece 591
Folio 102
Robert White head M 59 Groom, Coachman b Norfolk, Surlingham
Eliza White Wife 63 M b Surrey, Frinley
Arthur R son S 25 Clerk b Surrey Croydon
Francis O White M 27 Dentist not ....... (something I can't read) b Surrey, Croydon
While Lydia and first 3 children Francis G, Florence L and Alice L are visiting her Aunt Elizabeth POOLE
Sub Schedule 37
Piece 592
Folio 22
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1901 Thornton Heath, Croydon
Lydia Head, married
all 6 children with her.
Piece 646
Folio17
Page number 25
Household schedule number161
I cannot see Francis
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ROBERT White Baptised 16 Sep 1832, St Mary, Surlingham, Norfolk
Birth 22 Aug 1832
Parents JEREMIAH and MARTHA
Fathers Occp Labourer
Siblings Bapt same Church;
MARY 30 Aug 1829 (Father a Labourer)
JOHN 31 Jul 1842 (Father now a Carter)
(Source FreeREG)
Marriage;
25 Dec 1822, St Mary, Sisland
Jeremiah WHITE to Martha SMITH
Witnesses, Andrew HAMMOND/Mary Ann SMITH
(FreeREG)
Another Baptism;
HANNAH 20 Feb 1825 Framingham Pigot (Father a Husbandman), names Mother as Martha nee White.
(FreeREG)
1841 in Surlingham, Norfolk
Jeremiah White 37
Martha White 30
William White 14
Mary White 11
Robert White 7****
Henry White 5
Cant find Bap for William or Henry
1841 Jeremiah is born c 1804 Ashby, Norfolk. He is down as married, occp Ag Lab.
She has possibly died though;
GRO Death Reg
WHITE, MARTHA age 42****
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in HENSTEAD Volume 13 Page 122
Free site;
www.freereg.org/uk
Trish :)
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on 31 March 1911 Violet Hilda WHITE gets baptised at St James, Croydon Common
daughter of Lydia only. No mention of Francis.
address is 59 Lower Addiscombe Street, and yet on the 1911 census I cannot find that address!
I wonder if Lydia died in 1914
Deaths Mar 1914 (>99%)
WHITE Lydia 44 Croydon 2a 403
that is from https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl another free and useful site.
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A really big thank you to everyone for all your help, still looking for information now on Francis George White and his wife Hannah Roberts think they married in England 1920 and had 2 daughters Rose and Pearl. Francis was born1887 Croydon England he was the son of Francis Osborne White and Lydia Jane Poole again will try to look up the sites you have given all thought not sure what i am doing when it comes to all of this but many thanks for all the help really appreciated kind regards Kim
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I think this maybe Francis's marriage Mar 1918...
Roberts Florence H White Hammersmith 1a 564
White George F Roberts Hammersmith 1a 564
Do you know when they arrived in NSW? There is an arrival in 1920 that maybe them on FindMyPast but I can't see the record.
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Hello there
Francis George White i was told married 1920 Birkenhead Cheshire England to Hannah Roberts. their daughter Rose was born 1922 Birkenhead England and another child Pearl in 1923/4 she died i was told age 2 but Rose was a small child when they came to Australia. Rose went on to marry a Thomas Adamson and are both buried in Australia as is Francis but don't know what happened to Hannah. Sorry but i don't know when they came to Australia but it was only the 3 of them because Pearl had died, thank you for your help though it is really wonderful for you to help regards Kim
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Can't find a marriage in Birkenhead, the only one there around that time is for Francis J White to Sarah Joinson in 1919. No births for Rose and Pearl either.
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Just found Rose as Rosie...
Name Rosie White
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1922
Registration District Birkenhead
County Cheshire
Event Place Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Mother's Maiden Name Roberts
Volume 8A
Page 779
Affiliate Line Number 95
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Many thanks this is so over whelming that you have the time and the patients to help for that i am very greatful. Now found Rosie is their any birth or death for Pearl?. A friend who told me that he went to a library in Cheltenhan had a marriage of Francis George white and Hannah Roberts in Birkenshire Cheshire in 1920 and that is all he has given me. He thinks Hannah and Rosie came out to Australia about 1925. Pearl died of an unknown illness in 1923c. Not sure when Francis came to Australia, so very sorry it is so sketchy this is all i have to go on, again thank you so very much for your help regards Kim
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if you ordered Francis' death certificate transcript, as it is an Australian one, would not that have a date of arrival?
As well as details of his wife and children.
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searched Hannah and found it, nothing when Francis is searched.
Roberts Hannah N White Birkenhead 8a 1636
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Hate to throw a spanner in the works but just found this...
White Frederick G Roberts Birkenhead 8a 1635
According to some tree's on Ancestry Hannah may have been born in Wales 1899. There is also a birth for Pearl White in Wales...
White Pearl Roberts Cardiff 11a 1030 Sep 1920
I'm wodering if we have 2 families mixed up, it would help if we had Hannah's death.
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ADAMSON, Rose (Rosie).
Passed away peacefully on 11.8.2015
Age 93 years
Late of Woolhara
Loving mother of Stuart and Joy. Cherished Grandmother, Great Grandmother, greatly loved and sadly missed by all her relatives and friends.
A Funeral Service for Rosie will be held on Tuesday 18.8.2015 at 10.30am at A.O'Hare Funeral Directors Chapel, 15 Norton Street Leichhardt.
Kindly donate to Alzheimers Australia in lieu of flowers.
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Hello there
no spanner in the works this is wonderful i am ever so great-full, this is brilliant this is all the same family. I am not a member of ancestry so this is just wonderful of you. Hannah Roberts married name White i have born 1899 Caernarvonshire Wales daughter of John Water Roberts and Grace Parry and that Hannah died in New South Wales, Australia but not sure if this information is correct or not, this is why i put the call out to see if anyone can help me and thank you, you have been so generous in your help. That is why i also wanted to find information on Francis Osborne White and Lydia Jane Poole's children as this is where Francis George White who married Hannah Roberts, thought if i worked backwards it may help. Again thank you for your time and help i can't thank you enough with kind regards Kim
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I have Hannah 1899 Roberts Hannah Bangor 11b 459
Parents marriage...
Parry Grace Bangor 11b 869
Roberts John Bangor 11b 869
Will keep plodding to find their arrival. What got me interested in the first place is that I was born in Croydon. ;D
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This could be Hannah's death, looks she she re married but I have'nt found it yet.
LLOYD HANNAH
9340/1966
JOHN WALTER
GRACE
ST LEONARDS also
LLOYD Hannah Death notice 31JAN1966 Death late of Collaroy, formerly of Wales Sydney Morning Herald 02FEB1966
Added
Item 855/1929 / Divorce papers Frederick George While Hannah Nancy White, Lewis Lloyd (05/06/1929 - 09/10/1929)
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There is a Mrs H age 27 and. Miss R White age 4 on a passenger list to Brisbane
Address in Wales, 3 Marine Terrace Llanfairfechan.
Oronsay, 16 Oct 1926
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Looking promising again thankyou, getting really late hear will talk in the morning again thank you so very much for all your help with kind regards Kim
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Spent most of the morning sorting out all of the information and reading through what i have been sent, nothing to add i'm affraid all very sketchy so will wait to see what you have again thank you for all your help kind regards Kim
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Are you a descendant of Francis George?
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The Roberts family 1901, Gerizim Terrace, Llanfair-Fechan, Bangor, Caernarvonshire.
John W Roberts
Head
Male
27
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
Grace Roberts
Wife
Female
28
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
Mary Jane Roberts
Daughter
Female
7
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
Owen Roberts
Son
Male
6
Conway, Carnarvonshire
Grace Roberts
Daughter
Female
4
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
Rose Roberts
Daughter
Female
3
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
Hannah Roberts
Daughter
Female
1
Ll'Fechan, Carnarvonshire
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Once again many thanks for your help this is greatly appreciated. I read through some more papers yesterday. Rosie and Hannah he has put arrived in Australia about 1925 we now know it was 16 October 1926. They stayed in Randwick New South Wales till Rosie was 8 then headed back to Wales Then Rosie [i do not know if she married in Wales or Australia ]but came back our to Australia in he thinks 1961?? Think Hannah may have come to Australia but i do not know when, all a little hear say but this is what i have hope someone can help with many thanks again kind regards Kim P.s Will not be in tonight so please don't think me rude if i don;t reply
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Rosie’s marriage is on Scotland’s people 1948.
She , Thomas and children to Australia 1952, I think. Saw it the other day but had assumed you knew as more recent.
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Thomas and Rosie Southampton to Sydney 1852.
R Adamson 1922 Southampton 1952 Sydney Australia
T W Adamson 1926 Southampton 1952 Sydney Australia
Record on FindMyPast please can someone look up.
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Last address in United Kingsdown = 20 Rampart Avenue, Glasgow W 3
T W Clerk, 26
R. Wife 30
Miss J L. Daughter 4
master S. son, 1
Country of last permanent residence, Scotland
Ship HMT Asturias
Date of departure 20 August 1952
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What happened to the subject of this thread. Francis Osborne White? Not seen after the 1891 census?
But not dead by 1901, Lydia says she is married then, and can’t see either of them in 1911?
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Last address in United Kingsdown = 20 Rampart Avenue, Glasgow W 3
T W Clerk, 26
R. Wife 30
Miss J L. Daughter 4
master S. son, 1
Country of last permanent residence, Scotland
Ship HMT Asturias
Date of departure 20 August 1952
Thank you Mckha489,
A bit puzzled by the name Clerk FindMyPast has it as Adamson but the ages fit.
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Clerk is his occupation.
I couldn’t be bothered writing Adamson. 8)
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Clerk is his occupation.
I couldn’t be bothered writing Adamson. 8)
;D ;D ;D
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If the 1948 marriage is our Rosie and the 1952 departure/arrival is correct then these must be the children..
Removed as maybe living
Now to find them in Oz. ???
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Hello there
thank you so very much for all you detective work it is just brilliant, if i can ask just concentrate on Lydia Poole and Francis Osborne White children, i have got Stuart and Joy in Australia although not in contact with them i don't wish to pursue the living, will look through what you sent i am at work at the moment but will get back to you asap again many thanks for your help greatly appreciated, kind regards Kim
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Francis George White 1889 St Savours Croydon Single.
England and Wales Census, 1911
Fort Tigne Malta, Overseas Military,
100 COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY
Military Service 1907
Residence Somerset, England
Royal Garrison Artillery 59th Battery
Regiment 27301/RGA
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What happened to the subject of this thread. Francis Osborne White? Not seen after the 1891 census?
But not dead by 1901, Lydia says she is married then, and can’t see either of them in 1911?
He seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. As you said in an earlier post, Lydia is at Thornton Heath in 1901 with 6 children. Violet Hilda is baptised in 1911 living at 59 Lower Addiscombe Street,(that should be Lower Addiscombe Road). Violet Hilda was born in 1895, Cardiff. There is also a Harold Jack Osbourne White born in Croydon 1898, mmn Poole, so Francis still seems to be around. Another "maybe" is Catherine Grace White born in Cardiff 1901 mmn Poole.
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I wonder if Lydia died in 1914
Deaths Mar 1914 (>99%)
WHITE Lydia 44 Croydon 2a 403
that is from https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl another free and useful site.
Am wondering about that because, there is also a 1942 Death of a Lydia age 75 so b 1867
Croydon 2a 1084
Added.
No, I think that Lydia (the 1942 death) must be the one b Bermondsey with children Margaret, Edith, Francis.
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Hello there
Well Francis Osborne White and Lydia White nee Poole are being really hard to find arnt they.
Not being native to Croydon can you tell me what cemeteries are around the area and i may be able to have a look there, many thanks for your help once again kind regards Kim
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Hi Kim,
There were 2 or 3 around the early 1900's, 2 are still there...
Mitcham Road and Queen’s Road Cemeteries, you can email them for help giving them all the details that you know, they are usually quite helpful.
bereavement@croydon.gov.uk
There was a graveyard at St James Churchyard where Violet Hilda was baptised in 1911 but the church was demolished around 1990 but the records will still exist some where.
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If the Harold Jack Osborne White born 1898 mmn Poole was their child he died the same year in Streatham which is near Upper Norwood where Lydia was in 1901
Seems strange that there appears to be no sighting of the children in 1911, as you have Australia connections could they have up sticks and emigrated?
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hello
will try the Croydon pace they may have a record of burial there
As far as i am aware only Francis George White came to Australia but i will try to fin out
thanks again Kim
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okay just emailed the Croydon bereavement place and put the call out to another mate in England but guess i will have to wait with the time difference. Will keep trying many thanks for your help Kind regards Kim
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Alice Lena White Marriages Mar 1913
White Alice L Fletcher Croydon 2a 444
Fletcher Thomas White Croydon 2a 444
In 1939 they were living at 6 Parson's Mead, Croydon
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Alice Lena White Marriages Mar 1913
White Alice L Fletcher Croydon 2a 444
Fletcher Thomas White Croydon 2a 444
In 1939 they were living at 6 Parson's Mead, Croydon
No. Image is on Ancestry
Alice Lena White (spinster) married Oct 21 1916 to Walter Guess, A soldier age 21.
fathers George Guess deceased, a Brickmaker
Frank White, deceased, a dentist.
address for both 84a Princess Road, Croydon
Witnesses Arthur Goldstone and Thomas James Bumstead (I think) can't read it.
marriage was by banns at S. Saviour, Croydon
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Death
Deaths Mar 1983 (>99%)
GUESS ALICE LENA 13MR1891 LUTON 9 488
Free search of the 1939 has her in Leighton Buzzard, 33 Ashwell Street. dob 13 March 1892. Right dates, year one out. Acceptable in the scheme of things.
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death of Walter Guess
Deaths Dec 1923 (>99%)
Guess Walter 28 Leighton B. 3b 410
Biggleswade Chronicle May 5, 1916
Small article headed "A Hero of the 8th Beds"
Pte Walter Guess of the 8th Batallion.....recognised by the Brigadier General in a personally signed note... etc
home in Leighton Buzzard on special leave.
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children?
Births Sep 1920 (>99%)
Guess Alice J White Leighton B. 3b 676
Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Guess Douglas W White Leighton B. 3b 556
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Frank White, deceased, a dentist.
Thats twice we have him as a dentist. One of the censuses, and the marriage of Alice.
https://bda.org/museum/enquiries/was-your-ancestor-a-dentist
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Alice Lena White Marriages Mar 1913
White Alice L Fletcher Croydon 2a 444
Fletcher Thomas White Croydon 2a 444
In 1939 they were living at 6 Parson's Mead, Croydon
No. Image is on Ancestry
Alice Lena White (spinster) married Oct 21 1916 to Walter Guess, A soldier age 21.
fathers George Guess deceased, a Brickmaker
Frank White, deceased, a dentist.
address for both 84a Princess Road, Croydon
Witnesses Arthur Goldstone and Thomas James Bumstead (I think) can't read it.
marriage was by banns at S. Saviour, Croydon
Good one Mckha489, I'm glad that I was wrong with the Fletcher marriage as this one throws a whole new light on Francis who we now know died before 1916 and was also known as Frank.
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many thanks again this is just wonderful. i had a message from the Croydon bereavement place to say they were really busy with other inquiries but will get to mine asap so will have to wait till they contact me if they have a burial for Francis Osborne and Lydia Jane White. Do you know of any other marriages or information on any other of Francis Osborne White and Lydia Jane Poole's other children, again many thanks for all the help it is certainly filling in some blanks thanks for all the help it is really appreciated regards Kim
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Hey there just put all the information on to paper so i can get it right, just a thought thinking out loud because Francis and Lydia's last children were born in Cardiff Wales maybe that is where Francis Osborne White and Lydia Jane Poole died and buried just a thought i know i am jumping the gun a bit as i have not heard back from the Croydon place just a thought, again thank you for all the help kind regards Kim
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Hi Kim,
Don't worry Croydon will get back to you, they are pretty good, they found my GG Grand mothers unmarked grave site at the workhouse in 1895. Already looked for deaths in Wales but could'nt find any.
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reply 43. Birth of Harold Jack Osbourne, Croydon possibility
reply 11 1901 Lydia and children Thornton Heath Croydon. Lydia married
reply 13 Lydia and Violet Hilda Addiscombe Street (Road) Croydon
reply 51 Alice Lena is in Croydon
So - they didn't stay in Cardiff. Although I concede they may have gone back there from time to time
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WHITE, FRANCIS GEORGE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 258
WHITE, FLORENCE LYDIA POOLE
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 280
WHITE, ALICE LENA POOLE
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 229
WHITE, RICHARD VICTOR MAURICE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 239
WHITE, VIOLET HILDA POOLE
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 398
WHITE, ROBERT HORACE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 402
WHITE, HAROLD JACK OSBORNE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 290
WHITE, CATHERINE GRACE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 333
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WHITE, CATHERINE GRACE POOLE
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 333
She might be the daughter of Florence May POOLE and Alfred WHITE
144/4975/139/24 1901
and 1911
Registration district: Bristol
Registration District Number: 319
Sub-registration district: St Philip and St Jacob
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 15020
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hey there
just got an email from the Croydon Cemetery
3 Frank White's 6/10/1948 age 72 or 2/12/1957 no age recorded or 8/1/1914 age 63
found Lydia Jane White burial 28/8/1912 she is buried alone the grave is owned by Anna Muddiman but this name means nothing to me any clues, still not sure which one Frank is any help again most welcome, again thanks for all your help
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Lydia Jane White who died in 1912 was age 64. Ie born about 1848.
20 years too old to be yours. And I know we say don’t get too tied up in the age of the person, but 20 years out is a bit much I think.
I think yours is more likely to be the Lydia White died 1914 age 44 Croydon 2a 403. March qtr.
Worth getting her death cert (the cheaper PDF version) to see who notified and where she was living.
The 1948:Frank death would have dob 1876.
1914 dob 1851
And from freebmd can see that the 1957 burial is likely to be age 80 so dob about 1877
So. I don’t favour any of them at all. Sorry.
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No all good that is why i asked your opinion will have to keep on looking thank you again for your help regards Kim
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Also, remember at Alice Lena’s marriage in 1916, she gives father as a dentist, deceased.
Have you made enquiries from that link I posted previously to see if he was on the dental register (I suspect he was not)
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1911. Note address matches baptism of Violet Hilda
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8J-767
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Maybe you should look for the burial records for St James Church.
https://southwark.anglican.org/downloads/lostchurches/CRO02.pdf
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With many, many thanks for all your help it is so greatly appreciated, but i will have to leave it for a bit till my internet re sets, i am very limited in what i can look up as out internet is not very good living in the country, but i just wanted to say thank you for being so kind in helping me with my White family search