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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Meath => Topic started by: Ghostwheel on Thursday 23 May 19 00:04 BST (UK)
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I have noticed an interesting grave transcription, for Castlerickard Graveyard:
Gloria in Excelsis Deo
ERECTED BY
MARY NUGENT
TO THE MEMORY OF
HER BELOVED HUSBAND
JAMES NUGENT
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE 25TH APRIL 1852
AGED 49 YEARS
MARY NUGENT DIED MARCH 16TH 1854 AGED
50 YEARS
THOMAS NUGENT DIED FEBy 4TH 1904 AGED
76 YEARS
There is a vague similarity to a family I am interested in, but can't say definitely whether it is them or not.
Here are some of the things I know: the family I am interested in lived in the townland of Rathcore, which seems perhaps about 5 or 6 miles away (would that be too far?). Mary died approximately in 1855, but that is from someone saying it was 10 years ago in 1865, which could quite easily be 1854. James died very approximately in 1835, but again this is someone saying 30 years ago, in 1865. It occurs to me that the year of the death of James might possibly be greatly misread on the transcription.
They had a son named Thomas born about sometime in the 1820s, so he is about the right age. i don't know what happened to him. Only that he was alive in 1865. I had heard a rumor that he went to America, but this is unreliable. They had another son named John (the eldest), who by rumor was said to have gone to America too, and he didn't. John died in 1901, and he was slightly older. I read the rumor in a book, but I don't know what it is based on, maybe oral history. The book was called The 1865 Rathcore Evictions by Colin Rayfus, 2015.
I don't definitely know where John is buried, but, assuming with his wife (who died first), then he is elsewhere, in Kilshanroe in Kildare. (but he was living in Kildare) But his wife has a tombstone, in fact also on the stone is their son James, one of the few other "James Nugents" that come up in a search of graveyards around Enfield. As far as I know, James and Mary only had two children, John and Thomas. I feel at least fairly confident they had no other sons who grew to adulthood.
One question would be could this Mary Nugent who died in March 1854 be on Griffith's published in 1854? Mine definitely is.
Another question is could they be buried in this graveyard? There was one in Rathcore, virtually adjacent to their property, but this one is about 5-6 miles away. I wonder if anyone can figure if anyone from Rathcore is buried in it - it is confusing, and I'm not sure how to look at other graves, without searching for a name.
There is an old Nugent grave in Rathcore, unknown if connected. Though, the name Robert is not a family name in the Nugent line, as far as I know.
How likely is it the same family? Or can anyone distinguish this family in some other way?
I can't seem to definitely find this Thomas on the 1901 census. He almost certainly would have been born in Meath, as that is where John was born, and where his family lived. But none close in age come up, as having been born there. Maybe, he was not counted.
There is a picture of the stone, but I cannot read it, at all.
http://www.enfieldgraveyards.com/Gravestone.aspx?GravestoneID=2439 (http://www.enfieldgraveyards.com/Gravestone.aspx?GravestoneID=2439)
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My Mary Nugent appears on the Field Books for 1838 in Rathcore. No James seems to come up for Rathcore Parish or Moyfenrath Lower Baroney, and I am confident that my James Nugent was dead by that year.
By some measure of luck, I also determined that my Mary appears on the Tenure books for March 1853 (though the county is wrong), and no other Mary appears for the barony.
I have almost convinced myself, but not all the way. If they were separate folks, might they exist, have a grave stone, and still not appear?
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Castlerickard seems to possibly be in a separate barony: Upper Moyfenrath. But, when I search it, no Mary or James.
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Okay, I am pretty sure I found Thomas on the census and his death, though I think his age is wrong on both.
On the 1901 census, he is in Mahonstown, in Westmeath. Age is given as 62. Unmarried, but from Meath. Death record gives a near exact match on date. 1904 January 5th. 65 years old.
Well, Mahonstown is plenty far away compared to Rathcore, so that makes me a bit more confident.
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I was looking at that death this morning but didn't have time to post it, by the time I came back I'd completely forgotten about it.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05635/4585761.pdf
He's in the Will Calendar's second from the bottom on left
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014913/005014913_00469.pdf
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Okay, I am pretty sure I found Thomas on the census and his death, though I think his age is wrong on both.
On the 1901 census, he is in Mahonstown, in Westmeath. Age is given as 62. Unmarried, but from Meath. Death record gives a near exact match on date. 1904 January 5th. 65 years old.
Well, Mahonstown is plenty far away compared to Rathcore, so that makes me a bit more confident.
February not January see the way he writes J on death 127
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Re the Anne Donegan named in the Will Calendar
This needs checking out
There is an Anne Donegan husband James
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Innfield/Newcastle/1621471/
youngest daughter Anne
There is a Anne Donegan born to a James and Anne Nugent
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03544/2145449.pdf
Fairly sure Enfield and Innfield are the same place
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Wow, this quite an interesting line, Sinann! I am quite impressed.
You are right about Innfield and Enfield, I know because my grandmother was born there. Actually, quite interestingly, John lived there at the time of his marriage in 1866.
I wonder if this women could be a sister to John and Thomas. I only fairly confident that they did not have any brothers.
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Oh, ho! I might have found something! I thought I recognized the name "Anne Walsh" who reported the birth you linked, so I went looking through the birth records of John's children. One of them, Luke born in 1877 was reported by an Anne Walsh from Enfield. Luke was born in Gurteen, Kildare.
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I wonder if it might be possible that Anne had a wedding announcement that would say that she was the daughter of James at Rathcore. I know that John had one, but, of course, he probably would have been married several years later.
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I believe I have found Anne Donegan's death. She died in 1917, at age 91, at Enfield, reported by her son John.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05224/4456721.pdf (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05224/4456721.pdf)
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Birth years, going by the death records for John and Anne, and for Thomas by the tombstone:
John: about 1823 (1901-78) (described as eldest son)
Anne: about 1826 (1917-91) Also lines up with her age on 1901 census.
Thomas: about 1828 (1904-76)
I don't know if all these ages can be trusted perfectly. For John and Thomas, they vary on the 1901 census. Anne's does on the 1911 census, but it seems to be a reasonable approximation of a birth order, when you put Anne in the middle.
My theory for the moment would be that Anne was their sister. The Nugents did know a man named Denis Donegan in Rathcore, but I am unsure if he was related to Anne's husband James Donegan or not. I suppose it is a common name.
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Freemans Journal 1865
Thomas Nugent who has been obliged to give up his farm is selling by auction everything.
His farm tool, animals, household goods, turf, firewood.
Doesn't look like his was planning to hang around.
Thomas Clarke had James and Mary Nugent's farm by 1865.
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Thomas Clarke was Mary Nugent's brother. I'm not exactly sure when he took up residence, probably when James Nugent died. He seems to have become their surrogate father, and the farm was in his name in about 1855, as a trust for his nephews, John and Thomas (who actually were slightly oldish by 1865, being described as being near 40). Clarke never had children or married,
I believe they were all evicted at the same time. Thomas Clarke, and the two Nugents, though I'm not 100% sure that John was there. I believe Thomas was. There was actually a court case about it Clarke vs. Knox, which they won, since they had been led to believe that it was okay to make investments in improving their farm.
Thomas and John were actually briefly suspects in an earlier murder of a land agent. i have wondered if they ever gave testimony, but it is not in the book I mentioned. They never faced trial.
I had not seen that note in the Freeman's journal. It is quite interesting. I'm curious, does it really say "Thomas Nugent" and Rathcore? What is the date? They were evicted I think January 21, 1865 - that's when the crowbar brigade came, without any previous notice to them. I don't know if they had any time after that. Mr. Knox supposedly stole their hay. Or said something like "I think I'll be taking that hay."
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According to local lore, Thomas Nugent met the crowbar brigade with a shotgun, and the local priest just narrowly talked him into giving it up. That is in the book I mentioned. But I can't say whether it is true, because if it happened, I am a bit surprised that he wasn't arrested, or at least that I found no note of it.
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I should maybe add that they paid the rent. The land was being turned over to pasture, and many families were evicted.
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Anyone know what the typical delay would be for property to legally change hands, after someone died?
On the gravestone: Mary died March 16th 1864. In testimony it is said that letters of administration dated 1855, gave Clarke the property.
Does "letters of administration" mean someone dies without a will? I am wondering if there was a minimum period which would bridge this gap.
In the trial, there was another curious bit that vaguely mentioned letters of administration to Mary in 1852, without any mention of who died. But I can't make sense of this part. On the one hand, it would match the transcription on the grave for her husband's death exactly. They also oddly mention receipts from 1826-1852 (odd how this year stands out), then up to July 1863)
On the other hand, several other bits of evidence, disagree with it, two, or one depending how you count them, even from the same source. Court testimony in the same case, taken from the same day, Clarke said he knew the lands of Rathcore for about 30 years. That is vague, but he also said that Nugent (James) died about 30 years ago (from 1865.)
I had though of the possibility that he had maybe said "13", but there are two many things that seem to disagree with it. On another day, it was mentioned that the lease was taken up in 1826 and that James died soon after (which I take to mean a couple of years later.) Also, James isn't on the field books for 1838, while Mary is, which to me, would be a clear signal he was dead.
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I see that Thomas Clarke is quoted as saying that Mary Nugent died about 10 or 11 years ago, (from 1865) in another paper, than the one I was looking at, which only had said about 10 years. Small difference, but that definitely adds a bit to my confidence that the grave is hers.
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It says Thomas Nugent of Rathcore who was obliged etc.
the sale is Wednesday 1 Feb 1865 and everything has to be sold that day.
Even his guns are for sale, he doesn't sound like a man just moving house.
He has a lot of good stuff, he was doing well.
Mahogany tables and chairs, glass bookcase, a jaunting cart.
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Letters of Administration mean there was no will.
Last one on right
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246593_00603.pdf
Mary Nugent Rathcore 1855.
There is a James Nugent Rathcore 1832
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246592_00219.pdf
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That is interesting that it mentions guns. I had thought that they must have had them, but that is my first hard evidence. Can you tell me the date of the paper? I've had no luck finding the same thing.
There was one reference I heard when a guy told Knox to give everyone two weeks, to I guess sell their goods or something - they were mostly forced to leave that same night. I read that someone took an axe to their stairs.
The notice was served on the Nugents January 20 or 21, so if you add two weeks that would bring it around close to February 1st.
Could be Thomas was trying to downsize because he didn't have a good place lined up yet. I imagine that much of the stuff wasn't even his but John's and maybe his uncle Thomas Clarke's.
I know that John was living there at least in late December of 1864, maybe later. While, he was living in Enfield in November 1866, when he married, I'm not sure if he was crammed into some small place or not. When he married, he moved into the house of his wife, whose father had died some years before. They lived in Gurteen, Kildare.
Let me add that I don't know what happened to Clarke, other than he won the case. I think in March 1865. I'm not sure where he went on to live. Maybe, that would be a way to link them.
I didn't realize that the index to the wills went back that far. That's a good find because it says 1854. Does it also include 1852?
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Don't miss it, I added to my privious post.
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Thomas is in the Freemans Journal Sat Jan 28 1865 page 1
Counting from the right, it bottom of third column, starts
MR DUIGENAN has received instructions
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Did you notice Lions Den under James Nugent in 1832
In 1818 Lions Den the residence of the late Godwin Swift Esq between Clonard and Trim. An auction.
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BTW as you didn't know about the earlier will index you may find this handy
http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie/ just click on one in the list in the black banner.
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Thanks, a lot Sinann! I had not seen those things before, and had no idea that they even existed.
So, James did die in 1832. That's great because it matches the 2 in the grave transcription.
I had never heard of Lion Den before. It is completely new to me.
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I see it now. It is a townland that borders Castlerickard where the cemetery is!
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Hallmark, that is from the book I mentioned. I think they were all in the same house, but I'm not 100% certain.
That they were teenagers is wrong. i feel pretty certain of that, since James died so long ago. I don't think the parish register survives back to that period. A bad guess on the part of the author of the book, I think. In a way, it is almost logical though. If Thomas was waving a gun around, it makes him sound young.
Also, that Clarke was kind of the head of household, makes them sound young. But in the testimony of Clarke vs. Knox, he calls them almost 40.
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Here is Lionsden:
https://www.townlands.ie/meath/upper-moyfenrath/castlerickard/castlerickard/lionsden/ (https://www.townlands.ie/meath/upper-moyfenrath/castlerickard/castlerickard/lionsden/)
It is interesting because Lionsden appears on the 1901 census with the name Bird. The name Bird is on an earlier Nugent grave in the same cemetery, but I don't know if it is connected:
ERECTED BY THOs NUGENT
IN MEMORY OF HIS FATHER
JAMES NUGENT WHO DEPtd
THIS LIFE MARCH 17TH 1798
AGED 60 YEARS
ALSO THE BODY OF HIS MOTHER
MARGERY NUGENT ALIAS BIRD
WHO DEPARTED………..1798
1……YEARS
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Lionsden is in Castlerickard civil parish. I tried to find it on the tithes. No luck.
James Nugent does not appear on the tithes for that parish, but there are other Nugents. John and George L. Nugent. I wonder if George could be Protestant. I don't know if either could be related.
I can't find Lionsden on the tithes, but it appears on Griffith's. Some of George Nugent's tenants on Griffith's are Birds in Castlerickard and in Lionsden.
Another Nugent that appears on Griffith's for Lionsden is Anne. Probably a widow. One person she leases a plot from is Godwin Swift. Maybe a son of the one you mentioned, Sinann.
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On the index to the 1832 record for James Nugent's death that lists Lionsden and Rathcore, it almost looks like there could be a third place between them, where the remainder of the page is completely rotted away. There is just the suggestion of perhaps an "f" after "Rathcore, Co. Meath." on the same line. I wonder if that was another "of."
Oh, well, I don't think it can be traced. Only Rathcore seems to appear on the Tithes, and I don't think it would be on anything else.
I presume George L. Nugent was Protestant, as there was a George Lucas Nugent who married in 1793 according to the marriage licence bonds index, and that is CoI.
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Seems as though there were George Nugents at Castlerickard for a time. One in the index to the wills dates to 1753. This makes me think there wouldn't be an easy connection between the later James and George. If one family had been Protestant for a long time.
And I presume the other was Catholic for a long time, but I don't have strong evidence for it. Other than John, the son of James, was a Catholic when he married in 1866. But, then again, the first grave I mentioned had Latin, which I think would mean that James and Mary Nugent were Catholics.
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I have noticed that James Donegan appears as a sponsor for the baptism of one of John's children, who was born in Gurteen in 1870. At that time, the other sponsor seems to be the sister of his wife, so I think there is a good possibility that this James Donegan was the husband of Anne Nugent.
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I will repeat what I wrote in 2011.:
"This might not lead directly to your ancestors as the Nugents appeared to have been highly prolific, but no Nugent search is complete without looking at the amazing work of Francis Nugent Dixon and his site www.nugent.fr."
Particularly around page 209, the downloaded pdf brings you to the modern stuff.
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I will repeat what I wrote in 2011.:
"This might not lead directly to your ancestors as the Nugents appeared to have been highly prolific, but no Nugent search is complete without looking at the amazing work of Francis Nugent Dixon and his site www.nugent.fr."
Particularly around page 209, the downloaded pdf brings you to the modern stuff.
100% agree.
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Thanks, Ian. That seems like a good resource. I'll have to explore it a bit more. Another early grave (from early 1700s) at a nearby cemetery that I am interested in has a coat of arms on it, though it is from another Norman family.
I realized that I was wrong about there being a third "of" on the addresses for James Nugent in 1832, given on the index to wills. With some thought, I have come to the conclusion that the second "f" must denote the word "formerly", as in "formerly of Lionsden."
This is really quite interesting to me, since I never thought I would learn where James lived previously, since that was so long ago (at least before 1826) and the parish records seem to only go back to about 1885 or so.
I take it as possibly being the place where he was born, or at least where he lived a long time before he was married.
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I've discovered that Lionsden is in Killine and Longwood Catholic Parish.
They have some pretty interesting death records. The most intact of any Catholic parish that I've seen, although without many details. During a certain period, it says where a person is buried. The cemeteries vary entry by entry and sometimes they are outside the parish.
Neither James or Mary comes up, but I guess that is to be expected, since they died in a separate parish, even though they are buried there.
I have just browsed it a little and found one Nugent death: widow Anne Nugent died July 29, 1831 in Lyons Den, buried in Castlerickard. Too bad it doesn't give her age, or the name of her husband.