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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Talacharn on Friday 31 May 19 20:17 BST (UK)
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I found a 1911 census record linked to my family, where the head was a Travelling Stowman, with his son assisting in the business. Does anyone know what a Stowman is? I have only seen a transcription and need to look at the original, but wonder if it could be a typo and he was a Travelling Showman.
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Personally I would say a typo and it should read showman but a look at the original is a must
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Having posted, I searched here for Stowman and seveal had concluded their finding was a typo and should be Storeman. But I cannot see there being a Travelling Storeman. Busy this weekend, but I will get to the library early next week and check the original.
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Having looked at the original 1911 Census, it is definitely ‘Travelling Showman’, own account. The most indistinct part is the word Travelling, so do not understand why it was transcribed as Stowman. Wife: Catherine Anne (transcribed Cathorine), 38, born Swansea; daughter Matilda, 16, born Pontadulais; sons Aaron, 14, born Swansea, and John 13 born Pontypridd.
It also provided further information than available on the free transcription. They had been married 19 years, with four children in total, all alive, but only three living with them. All of those were assisting in the business. The parents spoke both, with the children only speaking English.
That explains why they were living in the Milford Arms Yard near St Clears, Carmarthenshire, my assumption being their home was mobile and by 1911, the eldest had left them. From there, it seems they remained in the area. There is a death and burial recorded for Catherine Anne Evans, 13 Nov 1916, age 46, at Pembrey, Carmarthenshire, with birth estimated as 1870. That ties in with other information.
I believe he remarried the following year, but to be certain, that is a discussion for the Pembrokeshire/Carmarthenshire boards.
While on the board for Travelling People, is there any way of finding the family in 1901? In 1911, having been married 19 years, they would be together and with all four children. I searched within Wales and nothing. Also, is it possible to find out what he did as a Travelling Showman? From the records, it would seem he remained in Wales, from Carmarthenshire to the Valleys.
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Have you looked at this one 1901 Favi Field Aberavon Glamorgan Wales
Daniel Evans age 30 born about 1871 Landover ? Carmartenshire ..travelling showman
Catherine Evans age 28 born about 1873 Swansea
Tilly Evans age 7 born about 1894 transcribed as Porty Dulais Glamorgan
Evan Evans age 5 born about 1896 Swansea
Dan Evans age born about 1898 Pontypridd Glamorgan
Rosie
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This may be of interest; http://romanygenes.com/evans-family/4571213814
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Thanks both, They contan the same record which is a good fit.
In the 1911, Daniel was born in Llanneda which could be a few places in West Wales, it could also be Llandovery. I need to see the original again, which I will do on Monday.
Tilly is Matilda
Evan could easily be Aaron born Swansea
But I am stuck with a Dan and no mention of John Evans who would be 3. Both born in Pontypridd.
I am not aware John had any other name, but it is probably the same person.
In 1901, there must be four children, though one could be living elsewhere. I assumed in 1911, it must be the eldest who had flown the nest.
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If you look at the original census In 1911 it looks like Daniel has been crossed out and John added
Rosie
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I will look again, it is something I must have missed this morning.
There is no doubt what you provided is the right family.
Dan could easily be mistaken for John when spoken. I have found nothing to suggest their names contained both Daniel and John, but such corrections lead me to think they were.
Aaron/Evan Evans married Martha Jane Williams, the sister of my grandfather
I believe Daniel his father married Martha Jane Williams her mother the year before them.
Catherine Anne Evans and Thomas Williams having died a few years earlier.
At present and on a different page, I would like to know if there is a link to Aran Evans of Llandeilo in the 1939 Register. He is married to a Catherine. I cannot find any record of a death for Martha Jane or a second marriage for Aran/Aaron to Catherine John, but early days. That search I will start next week. He is the right age and Fish Merchant fits with the family he married. Llandeilo also fits when his father was born in Llandovery. There are possibles that make me question.
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Here's Daniel Evans getting into a bit of trouble
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3584763/3584766/5/ [heading "An Assault"]
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Thanks for the article, I had not seen it.
I searched for articles relating to Daniel, but around the time of the war.
To get a better picture, I should also have looked earlier.
Dated 1913, it is after the 1911 census when I thought he had stopped travelling.
His wife Catherine Anne Evans was buried 13 Nov 1916, age 46, at Pembrey.
Now I am now unsure if Pembrey was fixed accommodation, or if they were still travelling; and if that death was the when he stopped travelling.
By 1918, when Aaron married, they were both recorded as Colliers, though Aaron was by then in the Army. From Pembrey there are coal mines within easy reach.
The interest was his son Aran/Aaron marrying Martha Jane, the daughter of my great-grandparents. I believe, but still need the marriage certificate as proof, that Daniel married my great-grandfather’s widow the year before, also a Martha Jane. Because of that complexity, I am interested to know what happened to both pairs.
Some articles I found, could be him, but I am not sure, this one has to be him.
From this assault, I can see how he fitted in with the Williams crowd.
When I first started searching, I thought it was only my grandfather getting into trouble all of the time. I have so many articles relating to family members of different generations, including my great-great-grandfather. Court sessions, jail and ending up in the workhouse/assylum. It was a hard life. If they were do-gooders, it would be a boring search.
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This morning I looked at the original census records for Daniel Evans in the 1901 and 1911.
In 1911, I can see that Daniel was crossed out and John added, with a symbol I do not understand (used twice) of a pen cross with a dot in each quadrant. Any ideas?
The birth location looks to be Llanwrda (ending da), a village outside Llandovery, but associated with it.
In 1901, Aberavon, Glamorgan, there is a word I cannot make out above his occupation. The same word is used for other Travelling Showmen on that page, and more times on the next page. The word Hawk is used against some, which will be Hawker. Working in the library, I was unable to take a photograph; but the word look like Schib, Grhib. Any ideas?
I am missing 1 sibling, but accept it will never be found. According to the 1911 census they had 4 living children and none had died, so in the 1901 census, 4 children should be listed. In 1911, I could understand that 1 had left home.
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Looking at the census the name does look like Llawnda ..Sorry I can't help with other Symbol's
1901 census the word looks like exhib ???
Rosie
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The cross and dots symbol is I think just a way of showing where a correction is needed and marking the correct text (like we might use an asterisk)
Agree the 1901 word is "Exhib" (as in exhibitor) - ie he's showing something not selling something (which the hawkers would be). A number of the showmen have the same term
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Thanks, That makes sense, but my next question has to be what was he exhibiting; is there any way of knowing? There seems to be so many exhibiting, but what?
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To conclude this chat, I wanted to update some of the loose ends. But first, thanks for your support in providing me with such valuable information. With this information being added, it might also help others.
I finally got around to ordering the marriage certificate of Daniel Evans and Martha Jane Williams, and today it arrived. My hunch that both surviving parents married was correct; they married 6 months before their children. By the time Aran married, Daniel must have moved from being a Public Amusement Caterer, living in a van at Carmarthen Park, to being a Collier. The certificate says Caterer, so I don't know why 'Exhib' was used in census records, unless he changed.
26 Nov 1917 . Marriage . Register Office Carmarthen
Daniel Evans . 47 . Widower . Public Amusement Caterer . Van Carmarthen Park . Father: Edward Evans (Deceased) . Basket Maker
Martha Jane Williams . 46 . Widow . Fruiterer . Ivy Bush Inn, Market Street, Haverfordwest . Father: Thomas Richards . Railway Porter
15 May 1918 – Register Office Haverfordwest
Aran Evans . 23 . Batchelor . Private - Machine Gun Corps - 272440 – Collier . 19 Market Street, Haverfordwest . Father: Daniel Evans – Collier
Martha Jane Williams . 24 . Spinster . 19 Market Street, Haverfordwest . Father: Thomas Williams (Deceased) – Fish merchant
Once I have written up census records etc. I will forward the information to the romanygenes website, so they can add it to the existing information. Thanks again for your help; this is the end of the road for this chat; and it would seem also for Daniel Evans. But I will keep looking.
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That's good you got the information you were looking for :)
Rosie
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An update to my last post: Daniel Evans married Martha Jane in Carmarthen. Six months later on Aran and Martha Jane’s marriage, he was a Collier.
In the 1939 Register, it would seem they are not together, though both are still living in Carmarthen. Martha J Evans is described as married rather than widow, so I assumed Daniel was still living, but not with her in Blue Street, Carmarthen. She is living with two of her female relatives and classed as incapacitated There are four records are officially closed. Martha Jane died in 1940 and probate passed her effects to daughter Florence.
I then found Daniel Evans, whose location is The Living Van in Carmarthen, and married. Also living there is Mayra, May Roberts, who is single and undertaking household duties. There are three records officially closed. I assume from the address, Daniel was living in a caravan and trading as Fish Monger, but I am unsure how this was done; from his home, or independently. I think Daniel died in 1945, but still need to verify that.
There are still some questions and the only option remaining is to look through local newspapers, which I will start next week.
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The GRO only provides certificates up to 1957, so this morning I called at the Registrar's office. Requesting Aran Evans . Jan-Mar 1958 . 8a 315 Carmarthen the national entry could not be found in their list. I have now emailed with more information so they can look further. He was the son of Daniel Evans.
But is set me thinking. I can find a Baptism for daughter Matilda, but no birth registration. As for Aran and John/Dan, there are possible entries, though more with a second name. There are similar issues with the marriage while they were travelling. With travelling people, would all births be registered? Also, did the community always enter into marriage.
On the 1901 and 1911 censuses it says married. But, if there were no birth or marriage certificates, how would anyone know, especially travelling so much; it was not like village life where everyone knows your business. Apart from the travelling people, who would care if they were married or not.
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Related thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=814423.msg6754822#msg6754822