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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Viktoria on Tuesday 04 June 19 20:38 BST (UK)
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Well tomorrow it is 75 years since one of the most important events in our
history took place.
BBC 1 have coverage at 9-15 am to 1 pm.
I do not have clear memories from the time as I would be 7 and still evacuated and I do not remember a radio .
There was a Saturday newspaper which I could read but nothing comes to mind.
What a stupendous feat , and it never fails to astonish me how we could do it only 26 years after WW1ended, and after years of unemployment and real want and deprivation in the depression.
My daughter and son in law are in France,they go every year at this time.
At Aromanches today.
It will be something to be remembering actually there.
Viktoria
Duplicate threads merged , header edited.
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Hi Viktoria :)
I wasn't around at the time, but I think we're commemorating D-Day 1944 this week aren't we? The Dunkirk evacuation happened in 1940.
Carol
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Today is the 75th anniversary of the landing of Allied troops on the beaches to push the Germans right back and start the regaining of all the ground the Germans took ,right to the coast when we had to retreat in 1940 and our lads
were stranded on the beaches and dunes between the Germans and the sea and every little boat that could went to bring as many as possible back to England but the losses were tremendous.
It seems a pity that the programme is on so early,perhaps the time of the landings was early but those who remember it may see part of it as it is on until1pm.
Not many left now,and they must be 85 years old,twenty in 1944.
For many who are left and very old we may not get the chance to say “Thankyou “again.
At the Tourist Info Office at Dunkirk we asked,some years ago for a street map to find the Dunkirk memorial or could the member of staff( a young girl) direct us.
She said she did not know what we were talking about!,.
I explained ,” Oh you mean when you ran away”—————was her retort.
WOW! Did I explode,I may even have said Baiser with the z instead of s sound.
The utter cheek, I explained in words of one syllable then said very loudly and menacingly slow” Now tell me where it is”.
She did .
Cor The French!
Viktoria.
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The Dunkirk Evacuation (as mentioned in your subject header) took place in 1940.
To describe it as "that's when you ran away" is reasonably accurate, but not a nice way of putting it.
D-Day (being celebrated today) took place in 1944, and presaged the Allied Invasion of France; which ultimately led to the end of the war.
It took place on the beaches around Caen, some 400km from Dunkirk.
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Anent all the wee boats that were sent to Dunkirk to rescue "our lads!" Meanwhile the Highland Division & Co were abandoned by Churchill and fought at St Valery till the ammo ran out, were marched into Germany & spent the duration in POW camps!
Skoosh.
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I apologise for the mix up, D Day and Dunkirk, I knew what I meant ( ::))
Thanks for the clarification..
But as for running away - what else was sensible to do?
Stay there and be captured? Killed?
The thing is the troops went back.
They would not have seen into the future in 1940 .
Viktoria.
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Anent all the wee boats that were sent to Dunkirk to rescue "our lads!" Meanwhile the Highland Division & Co were abandoned by Churchill and fought at St Valery till the ammo ran out, were marched into Germany & spent the duration in POW camps!
Skoosh.
Well Skoosh,my Dad was taken prisoner in May 1917, which meant he missed Passendale and it is no exaggeration to say it may well have saved his life.
Not very glorious but he had no control over it as he was wounded.
I hope the lads ,and lads they would be for the most part, got home and received the recognition they deserved,prisoners of war do use resources,manpower etc so have some effect .
They all deserve our thanks and respect.
Viktoria.
Just heard on TV about the Scottish Meterologist who stood his ground and argued against several others to get Eisenhower to delay by one day,then checking everything again advised him to act today as there was an 8 hour slot when the sea would be calmer and landing safer.
Thought I would mention it as it really was vital.
V.
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Have you edited your posts, Viktoria.?
You started off with Dunkirk as the subject heading and content and now it's changed to D-Day.
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Have you edited your posts, Viktoria.?
You started off with Dunkirk as the subject heading and content and now it's changed to D-Day.
I apologise for the mix up, D Day and Dunkirk, I knew what I meant ( ::))
Viktoria has put things to rights; the subject was always the D-Day commemorations (with a side helping of Dunkirk spirit!) :)
Carol
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Our family happened to be on holiday in southern Normandy when we realised that the 40th anniversary was taking place, so we headed north towards the coast for a look-see.
Passing through little villages with still some distance to go, we found ourselves being cheered by people in the streets, just because our car had a British registration!
The entire coastal area was full of veterans, military vehicles and a great air of celebration. A fair smattering were German.
But what really hit was the scale of the physical remains that D-Day left behind. When you see the numbers of headstones in the cemeteries, and the size of the Mulberry Harbour, you realise that this was no small endeavour. This was all-or-nothing.
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Sorry, you are a day early Viktoria, tomorrow the 6th is the actual anniversary. Plenty more to watch on television in the morning.
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Before anybody misinterprets this post - it is no way meant to be disrespectful to the people who took part in D Day.
Why exactly are we marking the 75th anniversary? I remember clearly similar events around the 50th, 60th and 70th anniversaries, and no doubt there will be another in five years time on the 80th. What is special about 75?
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I guess every year's special for those who were young men then, and still remembering in their 90s :)
Carol
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I guess every year's special for those who were young men then, and still remembering in their 90s :)
Carol
Exactly.
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There will be very, very few survivors still around at the 80th anniversary so this is sort of a last chance for many who are now in their 90s to tell what they remember of those days.
My own Dad died about a year ago [almost 96] but he was not on the beach on D-Day. He was fortunate enough to have an office job in an army supply unit of the CWS so he spent the war managing the supply of gas masks.
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That makes sense, I suppose.
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What is special about 75?
It is likely that this will be the last big number anniversary to be attended by actual participants.
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I found the Portsmouth event very moving. The history was woven around the human stories rather than the military.
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Anent all the wee boats that were sent to Dunkirk to rescue "our lads!" Meanwhile the Highland Division & Co were abandoned by Churchill and fought at St Valery till the ammo ran out, were marched into Germany & spent the duration in POW camps!
Skoosh.
Sorry Skoosh but that is a totally emotional misrepresentation of the facts. The fate of most of the 51st Highland Division was determined largely by their role and location in the retreat at that time and not by anyone choosing to abandon them. Why would anyone chose to do so? Unfortunately this myth has gained much currency thanks to certain poorly researched publications and the popular press. There are available rigorously researched books which have attempted to set the record straight. Nobody denies that the loss of the larger part of that famous division was not an incredible body blow to many Highland communities but the full detail of events did not emerge until many years later.
Imber
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Just watching the BBC programme,the numbers quoted are astounding.
They are hard to take in.
The memorial statue is wonderful,full of movement and really strikes a note.
So many young men too.
I wonder how many would have fought in WW1,the youngest officially would be 18 in 1918 so 44 at D Day.
We say thank you for such small things,a door opened,a bit of help etc and as there are no other words they are all we can say to those who took part in this magnificent operation,but they are not enough.
Sorry about the mix ups, my thoughts ran on and jumped about somewhat and seeing the programme in the T,V.mag I just took it that it was the commemoration day.
Put it down to “. me tablits” ( you can use that excuse when you are old and daft and a drag on the NHS)
I think if they are not part of our school syllabus WW1 and WW2 ought to be .
Other nations’ young people are aware of and very knowledgeable about
their recent history,but not so much here.
Just thinking ,many of the veterans have very poor teeth, O.K they are of great age but given the cost of dental care even on the N.H.S ,treatment may well be something they can not afford.
How shocking.
Viktoria.
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Sorry about the mix ups, my thoughts ran on and jumped about somewhat and seeing the programme in the T,V.mag I just took it that it was the commemoration day.
Put it down to “. me tablits” ( you can use that excuse when you are old and daft and a drag on the NHS)
Viktoria.
I already do Viktoria ;D ;D ;D
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51st Highland Division was not part of the BEF, it was attached to French 3rd Army on the Maginot Line. After the second phase of the German attack started, it was with French 10th Army on the R. Somme. Then retreat to Le Havre for evacuation. Whether there were any ships waiting, I don't know. It didn't matter anyway, they were caught at Saint Valery and surrendered to 7th Panzer Division (Rommel) entire. 10,000 personnel were captured, survivors after the losses so far. They were sent to Stalag XXA (officers to an Oflag)(Thorn/Torun), famous historical fortress town on the R. Vistula. The Division was reformed from other units.
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@ imber, I had the privilege of working with a man who was captured at St Valery, so horses-mouth, his opinion of Churchill would not make nice reading!!!
www.heraldscotland.com/news/13411989.after-dunkirk-churchill-abandoned-the-highlanders-at-st-valery/
Skoosh.
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https://www.google.com/search?q=surrender+of+51st+Highland+Division+St+Valery&client=firefox-b&biw=800&bih=475&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5ldXp0NTiAhWKGuwKHdtxBugQ_AUIECgB#imgrc=dJwkxdBY511mXM:
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@ imber, I had the privilege of working with a man who was captured at St Valery, so horses-mouth, his opinion of Churchill would not make nice reading!!!
www.heraldscotland.com/news/13411989.after-dunkirk-churchill-abandoned-the-highlanders-at-st-valery/
Skoosh.
Skoosh.
Being present doesn't necessarily equip the ordinary soldier to assess the bigger picture. I stay in Inverness. I’ve heard it all. Those at Dunkirk cried "Where was the RAF?". Only later academic assessment revealed the crucial role of the airmen. The Glasgow Herald article contains the following:
"Either way, for military or political reasons, Churchill abandoned the Highlanders. It's hard not to recall General Wolfe's assessment of the worth of Scottish soldiers: "No great mischief if they fall."
Including such a quote tells us all we need to know about the partiality of the article’s author. I’m no fan of Churchill but really.
I guess there will always be differences of opinion over what really happened in various wartime episodes. The passage of time tends to allow more considered academic assessment to emerge. it seems there are some new books out on D Day which offer new insight into what actually happened that day. I’ve dropped heavy hints at home about a forthcoming birthday.
Imber
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"The Shores of Normandy" Jim Radford :'(
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/05/europe/d-day-vet-song-charts-trnd/index.html
RIP...Our brave lads and lasses!..........and respect to the all the Veterans!
Carol
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So a man who was taken at St Valery was not an expert, how do you know? I don't think living in Inverness makes you one! I used to live in Ross-shire & I'm not one! As the man said himself "if it was the Guards, Churchill would have moved heaven & earth". Everybody has heard of Dunkirk, mention St Valery, zilch!
Birthday book, David Saul's "After Dunkirk, Churchill's Sacrifice of the Highland Division!"
Skoosh.
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What an emotional day, I have been glued to the T V.
Can’t help feeling proud and sad at the same time.
What wonderful generations they were WW1 and WW2, and still our young men step up to the mark when the need arises ,albeit professional soldiers nowadays.
I wonder what the world would have been like had those major conflicts not happened.
Well they did and we are doing our best to remember and be thankful for the enormous sacrifices made .
The veterans are wonderful,so little fuss and such modesty and composure.
Amazing .
I am proud to be British.
Viktoria.