RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: clogdancer on Thursday 20 June 19 09:12 BST (UK)
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I think I'm right in saying that a female might have used her maiden name as her middle name.
I've certainly found a few examples of that in my family in Mayo in the mid 1800's.
But might she retain her previous married name as a middle name in the same way?
And would this practice indicate that there was another person of similar age in the vicinity, otherwise with the same name?
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Hi, That's a good one!
She may well have kept her other married name.
Depending on the year, you could go back in records to find the info.
Mid 1800's depends on how Mid.
If you say what year then I would tell you if you could look back any records.
I have found that an extra surname is either the mothers maiden name or the fathers mothers name.
As I say just depends on the year of the marriage.
Maggsie
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Is this from an actual image of the record?
Or from a transcription?
Could be that, on the record, she is Ann Smith formerly Brown.
But transcribed as Ann Brown Smith, and indexed solely under Smith.
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Heres 2 records for Ann Loftus Maughan and a Maughan Loftus.
I'm looking for my Gr Gr Grandfather Anthony.
I pretty sure I have a DNA match with an Ann Loftus
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Doubt she is using the name Loftus, this is just how FamilySearch is recording her maiden name, a look at the images of the certs on Irish Genealogy would be clearer but I'm getting an internal service error message at the moment.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
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Irish Genealogy is still not working so I found an example from one of my collection.
You can see how the mother is recorded as Donnelly Kimmage but the Donnelly is just her formerly surname on the cert.
Lord knows where they got Hong Kong from ;D
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At this point I have to say that that would be normal for an Isle of Man birth!
Mother's maiden name is nearly always included on a baptism.
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They are not baptisms, they are birth certs.
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Birth Registrations. ;D
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Seconding Sinann reply #4. You need to look at original records, not rely on a transcription, which may have been submitted by a user. The ones posted from FamilySearch are following an American naming style for a married woman imo.
Birth registrations on Irish Genealogy.ie (My incomplete transcriptions/summaries):
Registration district: Killala; Year 1873
Child's name: Anne
Name of father: Edward Loftus
Name, surname and maiden surname of mother: Anne Loftus formerly Maughan
Registration district: Ballina; Year 1868
Name of child: Thomas Maughan
Name of father: Anthony Maughan
Names, surname and maiden surname of mother: Ann Maughan formerly Loftus
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en
I got "internal server error" as well but I have site as a favourite so accessed it that way. Then I got "internal server error again".
Information seems clear to me:
Edward Loftus married a woman called Anne Maughan.
Anthony Maughan married a woman called Anne Loftus.
Have you found their marriages?
You can look for birth registrations of other possible children of those couples on the above civil records site by putting in father's surname and leaving forename box empty and selecting a range of years.
Have you found baptisms for Anne Loftus and Thomas Maughan and/or their siblings? Mother's maiden name was often included in Catholic baptism registers.
I know you have another thread on the family.
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It's back
Thomas
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03436/2261301.pdf
Anne
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03180/2166462.pdf
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I never rely on a transcription. Transcriptions should only be looked upon as an aid to finding the original image of the document, or document.
Transcriptions can have errors, but many transcriptions often omit other very useful additional, or important information.
Additional information which rules out a link too, is most important, to prevent errors.
Middle surname on the actual document often denotes immediate ancestry, which can include Mother's Maiden Surname etc., or possibly more distant family ancestry / descent.
Mark
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Thanks guys.
I do appreciate your comments.
BUT, I never got a direct answer to my question.
And the original documents say "formerly", which doesn't really help.
"Formerly" could mean previous married name or maiden name, as I see it.
So could this be the previous married name, or is that unlikely?
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Birth certs give maiden names not previously married names.
A previously married name is called 'late'
Mary Smith formerly Murphy late Brown
Would be Mary Murphy married Brown, he died she married Smith.
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Thanks for clarifying that! :D
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And the original documents say "formerly", which doesn't really help.
"Formerly" could mean previous married name or maiden name, as I see it.
So could this be the previous married name, or is that unlikely?
The wording at the top of the column in the register of births is "Name, surname and maiden surname of mother" as I wrote in my reply #9. It's quite clear. (quite = completely, in the fullest sense)
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Irish Genealogy is still not working so I found an example from one of my collection.
You can see how the mother is recorded as Donnelly Kimmage but the Donnelly is just her formerly surname on the cert.
Lord knows where they got Hong Kong from ;D
Hi Sinann, Anne Kimmage was my great grandmother. She married Michael Doyle in 1900 then went to Liverpool and gave birth to my grandmother Christina Doyle.. Are you related to the Kimmage/Donnelly families?
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Welcome to RootsChat, Bern W :)
Sinann was last online here yesterday, but no doubt she will come on here and be able to answer your question.
Meanwhile here's the link for others, to the 1900 marriage.
Michael Joseph Doyle and Annie Kimmage - 21st October 1900.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10364/5772760.pdf
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Hi Bern W,
Yes I'm related to the Donnellys.
Anne Kimmage's mother Mary Donnelly married to James Kimmage was a sister of my great grandmother Jane Donnelly.
I have a fair bit of info on the Donnellys, another sister, of Mary and Jane, Anne Donnelly was married to Richard Kimmage.
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I've also done a fair bit of research on the Kimmage/Donnelly's too.
Richard and Anne Kimmage's descendents lived around the corner from me when growing up, but I only discovered this recently. And, Daniel Donnelly's descendents lived across the road from me while I was growing up. I've known them all my life and only found out recently we're blood related.
Now, I've just found out I'm a blood relation to you too .
I've connected with some of the Donnelly's from Blacktrench who are still there..
Are you still living in the same area?
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Bern, welcome to RootsChat. When you have made 3 posts you'll be able to use the private message facility. Then you can message Sinann.
Replying to this post will count towards your post total.
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I'm about 10 miles from Blacktrench. I've got about 18 DNA matches from the Donnelly family, mainly from Julia Donnelly Morrissey who went to America, but a few of the others as well, also a match with two descendants of John Donnelly who we believe is a brother of Edward, I'm waiting for his death cert in New York in 1903 to come online to confirm their parents names, (I hope). I've got a match with a descendant of a Mary Donnelly as well that I think is a sister of Edward and John.
I'll send you a private message.