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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: craigbarwick01 on Sunday 07 July 19 06:31 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am hoping for some help trying to locate parents of my GGGGrandmother, Catherine Gemmell, she married Alexander Marshall in Duns, 18 January 1832. Alex and Catherine's daughter Helen came to Tasmania in 1859 along with a sister and brother. Helen is my GGGrandmother, Helen adopted the name Helen McKenzie Marshall and married Sidney Marshall( no relative ), their first 2 children were Margaret and Ellen McKenzie Marshall. My theory is that Helen may have adopted her grandmothers surname, McKenzie. I can find a Robbert Gemmell who married Margaret McKenzie in Glasgow in January 1786, but Catherine was born in Midlothian according to later census returns. Any help greatly appreciated, is my theory way off?
Cheers
Craig
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This seems to be the 1832 marriage you refer to?
MARSHALL ALEXANDER AGNES GAMELS 18/01/1832 Duns
Colin
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Sorry Colin, I may have unintentionally misled you by not reading my notes correctly, you are correct with that marriage. I estimated their marriage about 1832 given the birth date for the oldest child, the childrens birth all list her as Catherine Gemmell , her death as Cath Gemmell and on a census as Catherine Gemmell born Midlothian
Cheers
Craig
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Where were the family baptised, what were their names, where were they in which census, did Catherine die in Scotland and if it was after 1855 have you seen her death certificate? What were the names of the brother and sister who also went to Tasmania?
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Hi Forfarian, not 100% on the the eldest boys, I believe according to census they were born Dunse, middle child born in Leith and the two girls in Edinburgh. Unfortunately Catherine died in Scotland in 1849. Colin has pointed out the name and date of the marriage I identified, the Gamel could be a misspelled, but I couldn't make sense of Agnes, I haven't been able to trace a Agnes And Alexander Marshall.
Cheers
Craig
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Hmmm. I see that Scotland's People has
Peter, baptised 6 August 1837
Helen, born 19 March, baptised 14 April 1839
Susan, born 24 December 1841, baptised 23 January 1842
David, born 31 July, baptised 1 September 1844
Peter in South Leith, the others in Nicholson Street Associate kirk ("Other Churches" section in SP).
And it seems that Catherine died in Melrose.
The 1841 census (FreeCEN transcription) has Alexr, 30; Catherine, 30; James, 5, born Ireland; Peter, 3; and Hellen 2, everyone but James born in Midlothian. However another transcription says James was also born in Midlothian so you have to check the original to see which one is correct.
In 1851 in Melrose: Alexander, 45, widower; Daniel, son, 18; James, son, 14; Peter, son, 12; Helen, daughter, 11. FreeCEN says that Alexander, Daniel and James were born in Dunse, Berwickshire, Peter in Leith and Helen in Edinburgh. Another transcription says that Alexander, Daniel and James were born in Roxburghshire, Peter and Helen in Midlothian. Again, you must check the original to see which is correct.
Digression - how the ***** can so-called transcriptions, which are supposed to be an accurate representation of what is on the identical original document, differ so significantly? >:( And that's without trying the notoriously inaccurate Anc***** transcriptions.
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1851 SP is Berwick, Dunse
1841 SP all born Scotland except for James Ireland
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Think I might take that up with the other so-called transcriber.
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Hi Forfarian,
just checked my notes and I found the eldest son of Alexander and Catherine, Daniel living with his grandmother Margaret (nee Leslie) in Dunse 1841, Margaret's husband Daniel died in 1829. Also there is Alexander's brothers, David and Daniel, and sister Mary, along with 3 other boys including Daniel
Cheers
Craig
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Ah, good. Glad you have that sorted :)
Alexander and Catherine named their first son after Alexander's father, which is in accord with the naming tradition. Unless there is a missing child who was born between Daniel and Peter and died after Peter's baptism, it could be that Catherine's father was Peter and her mother Helen.
On the other hand, they didn't name a son Alexander or a daughter Margaret (again unless there are missing children) so they don't appear to have followed the tradition in every respect, in which case it's not a good predictor of Catherine's parents' names.
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True it may not be a good predictor, there is also James to consider, presumably born between Daniel and Peter. Which comes back to part of the original question of , how does McKenzie fit in ?
Cheers
Craig
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Ah, yes, I admit to overlooking James :-[
No idea where MacKenzie fits in.
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Hi Forfarian, thanks for all the helpful hints, I'll keep searching with the traditional name theme and see what comes from that. Maybe Helen just liked the sound of McKenzie as a name.
Thanks so much
Cheers
Craig
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Hi guys, thanks to every one who responded to my search. I have a further note after some searching of records regarding the name Helen McKenzie Marshall in Tasmania. Not sure if you would call it a sound theory, I have found no links of Helen to the McKenzie Clan. I have however discovered something in her husband Sidney Marshall's family that may hold the answer. Sidney's older brother by 3 years Frederick joined the 78th Highland Regiment of Foot in 1845 and was stationed in Edinburgh, this regiment used the tartan of the McKenzie Clan as I understand it because it was founded by the McKenzie's. Also Frederick's wife was born Helen Robertson, they married in 1860. Helen Robertson's parents were Duncan Robertson and Christina McKenzie, if Helen Marshall knew of this I'm thinking she may have adopted the idea of McKenzie from Sidney's family.
Interested in anyone else's thoughts.
Cheers
Craig