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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: ThePigeon on Sunday 11 August 19 15:09 BST (UK)

Title: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Sunday 11 August 19 15:09 BST (UK)
Hi everyone. I'm just doing some research on a photo I have from the 1880s. I wondered if anyone could pinpoint a particular date in the 1880s based on her fashion. Thank you for any help!
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 13 August 19 10:02 BST (UK)
I would have said it was 1870s
Carol
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 10:06 BST (UK)
Agree with Carol - 1870s  :)
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 10:57 BST (UK)
Thank you for the responses! Apparently the studio where it was taken was open around 1881-1893. And the card design at the back dates from 1881 at the latest. The lady in the photo was also born in 1860 and I think she may look early 20s? Hmm, so it's a bit confusing! Unless she happens to be wearing older fashion at the time or somehow this studio got the glass negative plates. Any ideas?  :)
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 11:56 BST (UK)
It could be a reprint.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:11 BST (UK)
When George Denney married Ellen Pearse in August 1878 he was a Woollen Draper, by 1881 he was a photographer.  George & Ellen are at 21 St Sidwell Street after the 1881 census
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:31 BST (UK)
Her hair is typical 1870s.

It might be worth checking these online examples:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/main.htm
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:34 BST (UK)
When George Denney married Ellen Pearse in August 1878 he was a Woollen Draper, by 1881 he was a photographer.  George & Ellen are at 21 St Sidwell Street after the 1881 census

Missed this, Rosie, as I was called away and have only just posted what I'd written a while ago!

There's no sign of a ring so I'm thinking that it might well be a pre-marriage photo that he possibly reprinted in the 1880s
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:43 BST (UK)
When George Denney married Ellen Pearse in August 1878 he was a Woollen Draper, by 1881 he was a photographer.  George & Ellen are at 21 St Sidwell Street after the 1881 census

Missed this, Rosie, as I was called away and have only just posted what I'd written a while ago!

There's no sign of a ring so I'm thinking that it might well be a pre-marriage photo that he possibly reprinted in the 1880s

The photographer is E. Denney & Co. I'm not sure who E. Denney is? Here is an example of his advertisement.

Edith Cecilia Lea, the lady in the photo, wasn't married until 1908.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:44 BST (UK)
I see that the photo is of Edith Lea and not Ellen Pearce.  Also, the name on the photo is E Denney not G,  so now I'm confused.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:48 BST (UK)
When George Denney married Ellen Pearse in August 1878 he was a Woollen Draper, by 1881 he was a photographer.  George & Ellen are at 21 St Sidwell Street after the 1881 census

Missed this, Rosie, as I was called away and have only just posted what I'd written a while ago!

There's no sign of a ring so I'm thinking that it might well be a pre-marriage photo that he possibly reprinted in the 1880s

The photographer is E. Denney & Co. I'm not sure who E. Denney is? Here is an example of his advertisement.

Edith Cecilia Lea, the lady in the photo, wasn't married until 1908. And she was born in 1860.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:51 BST (UK)
I see that the photo is of Edith Lea and not Ellen Pearce.  Also, the name on the photo is E Denny not G,  so now I'm confused.

Yup, so am I. Haha.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:54 BST (UK)
I've been looking at your Edith. Is she the one who became a boarding school head by 1891?  Also she moved to Exeter sometime between 1871 and 1881  :-\
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:55 BST (UK)
Sorry if I was confusing you Gadget.   :-* .  :)

Ellen Pearse was married to the photographer George Denney and they were both resident at 21 St Sidwell Street.  Maybe the business being named E Denney was after his wife Ellen, she was older than him in 1881 he was 25, she was 40.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:56 BST (UK)
I've been looking at your Edith. Is she the one who became a boarding school head by 1891?  Also she moved to Exeter sometime between 1871 and 1881  :-\

Yes, that is correct  :). She married in 1908 to March Timson.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 12:57 BST (UK)
Sorry if I was confusing you Gadget.   :-* .  :)

Ellen Pearse was married to the photographer George Denney and they were both resident at 21 St Sidwell Street.  Maybe the business being named E Denney was after his wife Ellen, she was older than him in 1881 he was 25, she was 40.

Yes, I don't think George Denney, the photographer, had any sons? So I was thinking the E may stand for Ellen too.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:00 BST (UK)
How do you know that it is Edith? 

Thinking it's a re-print.  The hair is classic early 1870s.

Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:02 BST (UK)
How do you know that it is Edith? 

Thinking it's a re-print.  The hair is classic early 1870s.

Her name was written on the back of the photo.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:07 BST (UK)
I've looked at my books again - also checked the online links again.  The only explanations that I can think of is that she wore her hair in an 'old fashioned' way or she was posing in a1870s style for Ellen  :-\
I have an example from my family of an aunt posing for her photographer niece in the grandmother's 1860s clothing in the 1920s  ::)
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:08 BST (UK)
Thinking it's a re-print.  The hair is classic early 1870s.

Maybe because she was living with an older relation in 1881 her appearance / dress was governed by her influence.  Perhaps even one of her aunt's dresses.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:14 BST (UK)
Thinking it's a re-print.  The hair is classic early 1870s.

Maybe because she was living with an older relation in 1881 her appearance / dress was governed by her influence.  Perhaps even one of her aunt's dresses.

Wow, thank you everyone :D. You may be onto something there! She lived with her aunt, Frederica Weber Lea (who was 51 at the time), in 1881. Her aunt was the headmistress and after her aunt died Edith became the headmistress there. Perhaps she just wore anachronistic fashion.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:15 BST (UK)
I've looked at my books again - also checked the online links again.  The only explanations that I can think of is that she wore her hair in an 'old fashioned' way or she was posing in a1870s style for Ellen  :-\
I have an example from my family of an aunt posing for her photographer niece in the grandmother's 1860s clothing in the 1920s  ::)

Haha, that's awesome :D
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:16 BST (UK)
It's interesting to me as I studied art and photography at Exeter Art School in the olden days ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:19 BST (UK)
It's interesting to me as I studied art and photography at Exeter Art School in the olden days ;D ;D ;D

Awesome :D
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:37 BST (UK)
I do like her hairstyle! I wonder if that's her real hair or a false piece? :)
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 14 August 19 19:29 BST (UK)
It could have been taken on her 21st Birthday making the date 1881 which is feasible for the hair and dress still  to have been worn at the time. The back does look more like an 1880s design.i
Carol
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 August 19 20:15 BST (UK)
Hair is early-mid 1870s, Carol but she could be 'old fashioned'
 ;D

Added - here's a late example from 1876:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~victorianphotographs/history/date/a1876.htm
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 August 19 20:18 BST (UK)
Just a thought - do we know the address that Ellen gave on the marriage cert to George.  I'm wondering if her father lived at the Sidwell Street in the late 1870s and Ellen worked from there after her marriage in 1878.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 August 19 20:34 BST (UK)
I've jsut found this dating of hairstyle by Jim of one of my Alston pics - Bottom  row middle:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449884.msg3121396#msg3121396

and China:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449884.msg3121241#msg3121241
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Wednesday 14 August 19 21:03 BST (UK)
It could have been taken on her 21st Birthday making the date 1881 which is feasible for the hair and dress still  to have been worn at the time. The back does look more like an 1880s design.i
Carol

Yes, I was wondering if there was a particular occasion she had the photo taken... birthday, moving to her aunt's boarding school, etc.

Also, anyone got any guesses on her age in the photo? I always thought she looked early 20s.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Wednesday 14 August 19 21:04 BST (UK)
I've jsut found this dating of hairstyle by Jim of one of my Alston pics - Bottom  row middle:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449884.msg3121396#msg3121396

and China:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449884.msg3121241#msg3121241

Thank you, Gadget :)
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 15 August 19 08:11 BST (UK)
Just a thought - do we know the address that Ellen gave on the marriage cert to George.  I'm wondering if her father lived at the Sidwell Street in the late 1870s and Ellen worked from there after her marriage in 1878.

Ellen Pearse address when she married George Denney was St James, Exeter.  Her father was Samuel Pearse occ Draper

Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 15 August 19 08:20 BST (UK)
Thanks, Rosie.  I saw that they were living in the St Sidwell area in 1871, she being her father's assistant draper.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 15 August 19 09:16 BST (UK)
Having probs with connection this morning. I think they're doing something at the box or whatever and the line is dodgy first thing and about 5 o'clock!

I've not been to Exeter much for nearly 30 years, when I was there every day, but I seem to remember  Sidwell Street . I've just re-looked at the 1871 and find that the Pearce family were in Blackboy Road, which is the continuation of Sidwell Street:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101444356#zoom=4&lat=2994&lon=6705&layers=BT

I'm not sure which area St James covers but St James's Park (Exeter FC) is not all that far from Sidwell Street.
Title: Re: Please Could you Date this Photograph of Edith Lea
Post by: ThePigeon on Friday 16 August 19 14:49 BST (UK)
Having probs with connection this morning. I think they're doing something at the box or whatever and the line is dodgy first thing and about 5 o'clock!

I've not been to Exeter much for nearly 30 years, when I was there every day, but I seem to remember  Sidwell Street . I've just re-looked at the 1871 and find that the Pearce family were in Blackboy Road, which is the continuation of Sidwell Street:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101444356#zoom=4&lat=2994&lon=6705&layers=BT

I'm not sure which area St James covers but St James's Park (Exeter FC) is not all that far from Sidwell Street.

 :)