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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Talacharn on Wednesday 23 October 19 16:58 BST (UK)
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I am tracing my maternal family tree. Somewhat new to this, I would like to offer my findings for each generation, hoping others can validate, answer some questions and steer me in the right direction. My intention is to go back through the generations, but also to understand each generation. I welcome your comments.
The starting generation, that contained my grandmother were called Ikin, living in Over, now part of Winsford, Cheshire. From the 1911 Census - Hooter Hall, Stock Hill, Over, their parents John and Jane had been married for 16 years, having 10 children, but only 6 survived; living to a good age and as a child I knew all of them. (RG14 . Piece/Folio: 551 . Schedule Type: 276 . Page: 1 . Affiliate Record Identifier: GBC/1911/RG14/21700/0551/1)
Marriage Jul-Aug-Sep 1894 . Northwich, Cheshire
John Ikin and Jane Oakes (The only possible Jane)
Northwich 8A . Page 423 . Line Number 246
(It makes sense, as I knew the Ikin and Oakes families were related through marriage, but unsure where.)
I found their marriage on Family Search with an image: 08 Aug 1894 at St. Chad’s church, Over, Cheshire, John Ikin (21) and Jane Oakes (22), both of the Parish, with her father's name: John Oakes. Witnesses: John Penkethman? and Ellen Oakes. (GS Film: 2105306 . Digital Folder: 004018996 . Image: 00580)
On the 1901 Census, their only child is Jane Ikin age 0.
All DOB information was found on the 1939 Register:
John Ikin (27 Aug 1873) and Jane Ikin/Oakes (31 Dec 1872)
Between their marriage in 1894 and the first recorded child in 1901, a gap of over six years, could account for the children who died. I looked at the baptism records for St. Chad’s church from 1893 to the end of that book in April 1910.
Jane Ikin . Baptised: 21 Jun 1904 (29 Sep 1901)
Maggie Ikin . Baptised: 21 Jun 1904 (11 May 1902) - Grandmother
Harry Ikin . Baptised: 20 Apr 1905 (24 March 1905)
Nellie Ikin . Baptised: 07 Nov 1906 . 6 Months
Martha Lydia Ikin . Baptised: 06 Aug 1908 (31 May 1908)
John Joseph Ikin (Jack) . (22 Nov 1910)
All children were baptised and I am sure John (Jack) was too, had the book continued. I found no other baptism, naming John and Jane Ikin, or Jane Oakes as a single woman.
Looking through the burials at St. Chad’s church from 1894 that finished in March 1917, I found:
- Ikin . Unbaptised Infant . 25 Jan 1897 . 5 Minutes . Stock Hill
Samuel Ikin . 22 Sep 1911 . One Month . 8 Welsh Lane, Over
Fred Ikin . 29 May 1915 . 12 Months . 8 Stockhill, Over
Because of the address, I assume the unbaptised Ikin was one of their children. Considering my family were church-goers, I am still missing 3 children who died between 1894 and 1910; but found two others who were born and died after the 1911 Census.
On Family Search, I found births registered for Samuel and Fred, but also a Stanley.
Birth Registration: Samuel Ikin . Northwich Jul-Aug-Sep 1911
Mother's Maiden Name: Oakes . Volume: 8A . Page: 525 . Line: 31
Birth Registration: Stanley Ikin . Northwich Jul-Aug-Sep 1911
Mother's Maiden Name: Oakes . Volume: 8A . Page: 512 . Line: 32
Birth Registration: Fred Ikin . Northwich Apr-May-Jun 1914
Mother's Maiden Name: Oakes . Volume: 8A . Page: 511 . Line: 97
If there are no burial records, I assume they were not buried. It would seem they were not baptised either. I intend visiting Winsford in December and will look around the churchyard to see if there are any unrecorded clues. I was born and raised in the Over area of Winsford. Having checked online and through the church records, is there any other way of finding the missing information?
From the registration dates, could Samuel and Stanley have been twins? It seems too much of a coincidence that Ikin is matched with Oakes in this small area. But the page numbers are different. I cannot find any death, so assume Stanley survived. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I feel one of the family left the nest never to be heard of again; but that was many years ago and could have been a dream. I found a marriage Oct-Dec 1938 of Stanley Ikin to Elsie M Woolley: W.Cheshire . 8a 985, which I need to check on the 1939 Register next time I am in the library. There is a death registered: Stanley Ikin, Oct-Nov-Dec 1991, with a birth date: 09 Jun 1911. Chester & Ellesmere Port . Volume: 35 . Page: 94. That is very close to my other birth and death dates.
In going back a generation, I know from the marriage register, her father was John Oakes, with the witness Ellen Oakes, probably a sister. I will post my findings after a little more digging.
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From GRO index :-\
IKIN, JOHN mmn OAKES
1896 Sept Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 277
IKIN, WILLIAM mmn OAKES
1898 March Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 278
ADDED death
IKIN, WILLIAM 0
1898 March Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 188
IKIN, JANE mmn OAKES
1900 Dec Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 259
IKIN, MAGGIE mmn OAKES
1902 June Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 271
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Thanks rosie99,
John and William look like two of the missing.
Jane in 1900, I assume was born and died before another Jane was born in 1901.
Maggie survived and was my grandmother.
I think the missing ones have been found and I can add their names.
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The Jane that I listed (Dec qtr 1901) is the same one you mention
Jane Ikin . Baptised: 21 Jun 1904 (29 Sep 1901)
Maggie Ikin . Baptised: 21 Jun 1904 (11 May 1902) - Grandmother]
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Thanks rosie99, Looking again I realised it was the same Jane Ikin.
I am looking further into Stanley Ikin, and feel he is the twin of Samuel who died aged 1 month. Unable to find a death, I assume he survived to be an adult. As a family, this could be the one who was not openly mentioned.
There is a death for a Stanley Ikin: Oct-Dec 1991
Chester & Ellesmere Port Volume: 35 . Page: 94
Birth Date: 09 Jun 1911
The birth registration I have for Stanley and Samuel Ikin is Jul-Sep 1911. As Samuel died after one month, there could have been a delay in registering his birth.
There is also a marriage - Oct-Dec 1938 West Cheshire Volume: 8a Page: 985 Affiliate Line: 88
Spouse Name: Elsie M Woolley
I found nothing on the 1939 Register for Stanley, but he may have joined up for the war.
The only way to find more, is to purchase the marriage certificate, as that should indicate where he was born and his father's name. Considering I knew nothing about him, he has become the puzzle I need to solve, as doing so would conclude this generation.
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I found nothing on the 1939 Register for Stanley, but he may have joined up for the war.
The only way to find more, is to purchase the marriage certificate, as that should indicate where he was born and his father's name. Considering I knew nothing about him, he has become the puzzle I need to solve, as doing so would conclude this generation.
There has never been any birth information on Marriage Certificates from England or Wales.
On a Parish Register marriage entry, the words "of the parish of . . ." or "of this parish" refer to the place of residence at the time the banns were called.
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Of the 10 children mentioned in the 1911 Census, I now have 9 of them and possibly 3 more born after, the doubtful one being Stanley. Maybe the final one, born before 1911, is another un-named that will never be known.
I am confused with this. If Samuel and Stanley were twins, surely they would be registered at the same time and have the same, or sequential page numbers. Both are Ikin with their mother recorded as Oakes and both registered during the quarter Jul-Sep 1911. Samuel died aged one-month and the actual birth date of Stanley was 09 Jun 1911, from his death registration. That could mean both were born in June.
To register the death of Samuel, I assume his birth would need to be registered first. Surely at the same time you would register both births, though I do not understand how registers are compiled.
Thanks KGarrard, I appreciate the information on a marriage certificate is limited. The birth certificate for Stanley should give both parents and their address. That will show if he is part of my family, or not.
Is there a way of linking, or ruling out, the birth registration to marriage and death information?
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Of the 10 children mentioned in the 1911 Census, I now have 9 of them and possibly 3 more born after, the doubtful one being Stanley. Maybe the final one, born before 1911, is another un-named that will never be known.
I wonder if you are using the www.gro.gov.uk/ site to check out births, which show mothers maiden name. You should be able to pick up all Ikin births with mmn Oakes and also search for deaths for these children. Although you have to register it is free to use.
Pheno
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Hi Pheno, I have been using FreeBMD and FamilySearch, with help from members of Rootschat. I registered with the GRO, but was not aware I you could search as you suggest. I will give it a try.
On FreeBMD I searched for a death of Stanley Ikin between 1911 and 1993. There were only three deaths registered and none fit with the birth date.
From FamilySearch I found the death registration:
Stanley Ikin . Chester & Ellesmere Port: Oct-Dec 1991
Birth Date: 09 Jun 1911
Volume: 35 Page: 94
This was not offered on Free BMD and the three I found on Free BMD were not offered by FamilySearch.
From the GRO I have ordered the birth certificate which will be sent on 31st October.
If Stanley is not part of my family, there is no point in me looking for the connection.
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You need to search for surname: Ikin, mmn:Oakes and a starting year with a +/- 2 years through the whole time range in which children were being born. Hopefully you will find a list - this is what Rosie99 did in finding those children for you. All births should be registered.
If you find a birth for achild about which you know nothing further then switch to the death search and look in the few years after the birth, in the same registration district and you will possibly find the death.
Also, it is just possible that a death is registered in a quarter previous to the birth as 42 days were allowed for a birth registration but often a death was registered almost immediately and if this occurred towards the end of a quarter then the birth might be in the following quarter. Not very common but it did happen.
When you receive Stanley's birth certificate look for a time of birth - this was recorded for multiple births.
Pheno
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I searched on the GRO database and have found too many Ikin children with Oakes as their mother. In the 1911 Census, they claim 16 years married, 10 children with 6 still living. Those 6 children lived until an old age. I was looking for the missing children and found 1 from the church register, but now I have many more, too many to fit within the 16 years and a few new ones born after 1911.
I need to put all of the names in chronological order with births and deaths. Either the claim of 10 children was not accurate, or there must be two Ikin families; and Ikin marrying an Oakes. That I need to search for. Both Ikin and Oakes were families in the area and there could be more than one combination.
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FreeBMD shows at least 2 possible marriages ;D
September qtr 1894
Northwich Registration District vol 8a, page 423
John Ikin
Jane Oakes
March qtr 1905
Northwich Registration District vol 8a, page 410
Hulbert Ikin
Mary Ann Oakes
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Thanks Pheno for the explanation and what to look for, but KGarrad may have found something. All the children I took from the GRO were registered in Northwich, as Ikin, with Oakes as their mother’s maiden name. They cannot all be my family. On FreeBMD I checked for another marriage and nothing fitted with male Ikin and female Oakes. Then I looked on FamilySearch from 1875 to 1910 throughout Cheshire and the only possible was:
Marriage: Hulbert Ikin
Northwich Jan-Mar 1905
Volume: 8A Page: 410 Affiliate Line Number: 22
Possible Spouse: Edwin Kennerley
Possible Spouse: Agnes Maud Kitchen
Possible Spouse: Mary Ann Oakes
Thanks KGarrad, I had just found Hulbert when I saw the notification of your post. They could account for Stanley and a few more of those after 1905.
The birth certificate will answer the Stanley question, but without buying all certificates I will not be sure.
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An educated guess, but Hulbert (b1909) looks as if he may be from the 2nd marriage?! ;D
Both marriages found easily on FreeBMD.
Make sure you onlyput in surnames, and ensure they are in the surname boxes ;)
(I've messed that up countless times! :-[)
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I thought that with Hulbert.
There are others that match years where I already have children.
Those found before 1905, I believe they are my family.
John Ikin
born: Jul-Sep 1896 . Ref: Northwich Volume 8a Page 277
died: Jul-Sep 1896 . 0 . Ref: Northwich Volume 8a Page 163
- Ikin . unbaptised
died: 5 Minutes . Stock Hill
buried: 25 Jan 1897 . Ref: St. Chad’s Church Register
William Ikin
born: Jan-Mar 1898 . Ref: Northwich Volume 08a Page 278
died: Jan-Mar 1898 . Ref: Northwich Volume 08a Page 188
I believe these three of the four children that died and mentioned in the 1911 Census.
I felt Sarah Ikin with mmn Oakes was the missing child, but cannot find her death before 1911, which would fit with the census record. She was registered in Northwich Jan-Mar 1905 - Volume 8a Page 268. Hulbert Ikin and Mary Ann Oakes married Jan-Mar 1905, which makes it unlikely to be their child, but not impossible.
Then I found two children, whose address within the church record confirms they are also my family. The last child I knew of, was John Joseph (Jack) in 1910, but they must have continued to have children.
Samuel Ikin
born: Jul-Sep 1911 . Ref: Northwich Volume: 8a Page: 525
died: Jul-Sep 1911 . 0 . Ref: Northwich Volume: 8a Page: 387
burial: 22 Sep 1911 . 1 Month . 8 Welsh Lane, Over . St. Chad’s Church Record
Fred Ikin
born: Apr-Jun 1914 . Ref: Northwich Volume: 8a Page: 511
died: Apr-Jun 1915 . 1 . 8 Stock Hill, Over . Ref: Northwich Volume: 8a Page 362
There is still the possibility between 1911 and 1914 for another child, even after 1915; but finding them will be difficult and/or costly. The Hulbert family were also breeding at a pace.
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From my last post, I kept looking for Sarah Ikin
Northwich Jan-Mar 1905
Volume: 8a Page: 268
I found a death for Sarah Ikin . Age: 2
Northwich Jan-Mar 1907
Volume: 8a Page: 207
Having found the death registration, which was not offered when searching the GRO. Even when I later searched with volume and page, it was not found.
But 1905 clashes with the birth of Harry Ikin and living for 2 years, she would also be in the baptism records. The missing child cannot be Sarah, or clash with an existing birth year.
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watching with immense interest - I am an Oakes - and I go back to late 1600's with my Oakes Familytree in OVER - St Chads to be precise - John Oakes b 1675 Over , had a son =
Ralph Oakes b 1702 - in Over - married Mary Holland b 1704 - in St Chads ,Over - they had a son Ralph Oakes b 1727 - he married Mary Trelfa and they had 13 children ALL born in Over .
so for future reference could you make a note of this post - and if you want to try and go back from Jane Oakes - let me know - Janes father John Oakes - do you know where he was born and when ??
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'I found a death for Sarah Ikin . Age: 2
Northwich Jan-Mar 1907
Volume: 8a Page: 207
Having found the death registration, which was not offered when searching the GRO. Even when I later searched with volume and page, it was not found.'
GRO seems to have missed out Northwich deaths for Northwich 8a 207 (but have not checked all 8 of them)
Did you report the missing death you found?
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Hi Garstonite and Chempat,
Regarding the GRO missing data, no I did not inform them as I was not aware that I could and should; but will return and do so. Only looking at my mother's lineage the Oakes family should appear once; though my great-aunt Jane Ikin married Alfred Oakes. I assume they were related, possibly cousins, but that connection I still need to find. As a child, I knew the families were related. Seeing the Oakes, post spurred me into looking at my family tree.
I believe Jane Ikin (nee Oakes) was the daughter of John and Jane Oakes (nee Oakley of Buglawton), but need to fully check that before offering on Rootschat. My time is being taken up with a missing child who I may never find.
With children being registered in Northwich before and beyond 1911, I could not find Hulbert Ikin and family on the 1911 Census, even searching outside of Cheshire.
I found births for Hulbert and Elizabeth Ikin naming Hulbert as the father.
There is a burial in St. Chad’s graveyard of Elizabeth Ikin . 9 Church Street . 13 Feb 1915 . 8 years. It is the same church my family used and they were living not that far away in Church Street.
Feeling Elizabeth must feature somewhere on the 1911 Census I then found:
1911 Census: Over, Cheshire
John Ikin . Head . M . 59 . Winsford, Cheshire
Sarah Ikin . Wife . F . 59 . Nr Wales Abergate, Denbighshire
Elizabeth Ikin . Grandchild . F . 5 . Winsford, Cheshire
RG14 . Piece/Folio: 41 . Schedule: 20 . Page: 1
Affiliate Record Identifier: GBC/1911/RG14/21698/0041/3
As for Hulbert and other members of his family, Hulbert the son would be 2 years old, they do not seem to be in England or Wales at the time of the Census.
Stanley’s death was recorded in West Cheshire and I have found a Hulbert’s death also registered in West Cheshire; born 1880 and died 1940. That would suggest Hulbert was Stanley’s father, so an unwanted birth certificate is arriving. I also found a baptism for Hulbert in Davenham 1908 which is about 5 miles away. It is now starting to make sense.
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'Regarding the GRO missing data, no I did not inform them as I was not aware that I could and should; but will return and do so'
You do not have to report it, just it makes it better for people using it in the future that you have helped correct an omission - gives you a warm glow.
It is a very easy click link to fill in.
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Informed the GRO regarding the missing data, with information.
Of the children born to an Ikin/Oakes combination, I am still missing one child born before the 1911 Census. Having searched, I now accept that child will probably not be found. Of all the names found on the GRO, I have discounted most, but one is still a possible: Birth: James Ikin . Northwich Jan-Mar 1913 . Mother's Maiden Name: Oakes . Volume: 8A . Page: 490 . Line: 34
There is a death that fits. Death: James Ikin . Crewe Oct-Dec 1938 . Age: 26 . Birth Year (Estimated): 1912 . Volume: 8A . Page: 411. Line: 120.
At present, I cannot find another James Ikin birth for 1912/3. I already have definite children registered in 1911 and 1914, so it is a possibility as there is a year either side August 1911 | Jan-Mar 1913 | Apr-Jun 1914. Could he be part of my family, or the other one? The only way I will know for sure is to buy the birth certificate.
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I have gone back a generation. From the marriage certificate, the only Oakes family I could find, where the father John and daughter Jane, born around 1872; with probably another daughter called Ellen Oakes:
1871 Census . Weaver, Over, Cheshire
John Oakes . Head . M . 49 . Wettenhall, Cheshire
Jane Oakes . Wife . F . 39 . Congleton, Cheshire
John Oakes . Son . M . 11 . Over, Cheshire
James Oakes . Son . M . 9 . Over, Cheshire
Henry Oakes . Son . M . 6 . Over, Cheshire
Ellen Oakes . Daughter . F . 4 . Over, Cheshire
Jane Oakes . Daughter . F . 0 . Over, Cheshire
GS Film: 000842113 . Digital Folder: 004412565 . Image: 00261 . Affiliate Image: GBC/1871/3698/0258
I found Ellen Oakes in 1881 and 1891, but after that I cannot find anything; marriage, location or death, though I am only looking on FreeBMD and FamilySearch. Can anyone help?
1881 Census . Church Minshull, Cheshire
RG11 . Piece/Folio: 3550/51 . Page: 11
1891 Census . Weaver . Middlewich . Cheshire
RG12 . Piece/Folio: 2840/ 148 . Page: 5
I still need to find information relating to all of the siblings, which I am searching for at present. On the 1861 Census there are three more children recorded as Oates, but there is no doubt they are the right family:
Joseph Oates . Son . M . 9 . Over, Cheshire
Ann Oates . Daughter . F . 7 . Over, Cheshire
Richard Oates . Son . M . 4 . Over, Cheshire
In an earlier post, the marriage between John Ikin and Jane Oakes, their witnesses were John Penkethman and Ellen Oakes, which now makes sense. I found in the 1911 Census, that Richard was residing with John and Anney Penkethman, being referred to as Brother-in-Law. Then I found: 01 Feb 1877 John Penkethman married Anne Oakes. John Penkethman, Anne Oakes and Ellen Wood were servants at the same place on the 1771 Census. Ellen Wood later married Joseph Oakes.
John Oakes married Jane Oakely (also written Oakeley); 04 Oct 1849 . Buglawton, Cheshire . Ref: Congleton 19 95.
Searching the GRO for births between Oakes and Oakely/Oakeley, I found the three named in the 1861 Census; Joseph, Ann and Richard, which said they were all were born in Over.
Joseph Oakes mmn Oakley
GRO Reference: 1852 Congleton Volume 8a Page 265.
Ann Oakes mmn Oakley
GRO Reference: 1854 Northwich Volume 8a Page 267
Richard Oakes mmn Oakeley
GRO Reference: 1857 Northwich Volume 8a Page 230
The reference for Joseph is Congleton Volume 8a, which I associate with Northwich, like Ann and Richard.
There is also:
William David Oakes . mmn Oakley
born: Jan-Feb 1850 . GRO Reference: Congleton Volume 19 Page 75
baptism: 17 Feb 1850 . Astbury, Cheshire (Buglawton)
Father's Name: John Oakes . Mother's Name: Jane Oakes
Died aged 0 . Oct-Dec 1850 . Northwich Volume: 19 . Page: 153
William David must have been born in Buglawton, baptised in Astbury and then they moved to live in Over where he died.
The reference for Northwich, I feel should be 8a and Congleton 19, therefore have mistakes been made in registering the births of William David and Joseph? Or would the registrar acknowledge the child was not born in the district that it died?
I know Jane Oakley was born in Buglawton and Christened in Astbury, where the marriage took place; and believe she was the illegitimate daughter of Mary Oakley. It seems there are families in Over and Buglawton/Congleton, that inter-married and replicated names.
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From 1837 until 1851, volume numbers were given as Roman Numerals - Cheshire was XIX (or 19).
From 1852 until 1946, they were a number and a letter - Cheshire was 8a.
Potential marriages?
March qtr 1891, Manchester
Dec qtr 1895, Altrincham
June qtr 1896, Nantwich
Sept qtr 1896, Manchester
Sept qtr 1897, Ashton under Lyne
June qtr 1899, Northwich
Sept qtr 1901, Stockport
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Northwich Registration District:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/northwich.html
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Thanks KGerrard, for the explanation. I am looking at a computer screen too much and failing to see the obvious. Of those you offered, I checked the names from Nantwich and Northwich through FamilySearch to find them on a census. The only name that fitted was Frederick Maddock and by 1911 he was a watch repairer and they had five children from 3 to 11 years.
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Having stepped back a generation, I have found information relating to births and deaths, marriages and baptisms where appropriate for all children William David, Joseph, Ann, John, James, Henry, Ellen and Jane. And plenty of Census information. But I am struggling with one:
Richard Oakes . mmn Oakeley
born: Jul-Sep 1857 . GRO Reference: Northwich Volume 8a Page 230
See below: He was alive in 1911 and at the home of his sister and her husband for the Census; which also says he was married. In staying with his sister, it could indicate he was married and living out of county.
There is a marriage listed in Runcorn 1887. On FreeBMD the only marriage in Cheshire between 1871 and 1911, is Apr-Jun 1887 Runcorn 8a 332, of either
Harding Elizabeth or Hornby Hannah, but from the transcription his age does not fit, nor his father’s name:
Marriage: Richard Oakes (Single) and Elizabeth Harding (Widowed)
20 Jun 1887 . St Thomas, Stockton-Heath, Cheshire
Age (Formatted): 41y
Father's Name: Thomas Oakes . Spouse's Father's Name: James Mellor
For his death there is a possible (Find a Grave Index) 01 Feb 1932 Overleigh Cemetery as on FamilySearch the birth date seems to fit. Affiliate Record Identifier: 132259423 – I checked Probate and nothing for 1932 or 33.
On the 1861 referred to as Oates:
1861 Census: Cherry Hill . Weaver, Cheshire
John Oates . Head . M . 38 . Over, Cheshire . Labourer
Jane Oates . Wife . F . 30 . Over, Cheshire
Joseph Oates . Son . M . 9 . Over, Cheshire
Ann Oates . Daughter . F . 7 . Over, Cheshire
Richard Oates . Son . M . 4 . Over, Cheshire . Scholar
John Oates . Son . M . 1 . Over, Cheshire
RG09 . Piece/Folio: 2605 / 98 . Page Number: 25
In the 1871 Census: Church Minshull, Cheshire
Richard Oaks . Servant . M . 13 . Weaver Over, Cheshire
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/3715/0126
1911 Census: Darnhall, Cheshire . Over
John Penkethman . Head . M . 64 . Darnhall, Cheshire . Forrester
Anney Penkethman . Wife . F . 56 . North Middlewich, Cheshire
Richard Oakes . Brother-in-law . M . 54 . Darnhall, Cheshire
RG14 . Piece/Folio: 67 . Schedule Type: 33
Affiliate Record Identifier: GBC/1911/RG14/21688/0067/1
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Ignore the last post, I found Richard Oakes in Manchester as a Joiner, the trade mentioned in 1911.
He married Elizabeth who was born in Manchester.
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Having moved back a few generations, I am unsure about what I am finding, so hope some on Rootschat can clarify.
To start with, the census said Jane Oakes was born in Congleton.
1871 Census . Weaver, Cheshire
John Oakes . Head . M . 49 . Wettenhall, Cheshire
Jane Oakes . Wife . F . 39 . Congleton, Cheshire
The only marriage that fitted, was:
Name: John Oakes . Spouse's Name: Jane Oakley
04 Oct 1849 . Buglawton, Cheshire
Father's Name: Richard Oakes
GS Film: 2149024 . Digital Folder: 004019106 . Image: 00881
Intended Marriage: 01 Oct 1849
John Oakes . Age: 21 . Jane Oakley . Age: 19
John Oakes of Darnhall in the Parish of Whitegate in the County of Chester
Farmer . Twenty One Years . Batchelor
Jane Oakley of the District of Buglawton in the County of Chester aforesaid
Nineteen Years . Spinster
Parochial Chapel of the District of Buglawton
And he further made the Oath that the said Jane Oakley hath no father living or Guardian of her person appointed by the Court of Chancery and having authority to consent to the marriage.
John Oakes
GS Film: 1911717 . Digital Folder: 4018722 . Image: 1113
Jane was the illegitimate daughter of Mary Oakley who died aged 20.
Mary Oakley
Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
Burial: 15 Jun 1834 aged 20 . Congleton, Cheshire
GS Film: 1655361 . Digital Folder: 004011829 . Image: 00615
In the church record, listed below there is Henry Oakeley, born 1834 to Mary Oakeley . Single and died 1834, aged 0, with the burial 15 Jun 1834 . Astbury, Congleton, Cheshire.
GS Film: 1655361 . Digital Folder: 004011829 . Image: 00615
I believe Jane then lived in the Winsford area
1841 Census . Weaver Court House . Middlewich, Cheshire
William Williamson . M . 60 . Cheshire
Mary Williamson . F . 60 . Cheshire
Jane Oakley . F . 8 . Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 96/4 . Page Number: 13
From the transcription, it does not say if they are related, but I am finding information linking Williamson to Oakes through marriage, though as yet, I have not found the actual link.
Now I have some confusion: Where was Mary born and who were her parents? There are families in the Winsford and Buglawton areas that overlap. Having moved my family tree to the Congleton area, I assumed she would be born there, but could only find a birth in Over.
From different sources, she should be born in 1814, but there are two Christening dates.
Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
Christening 13 Feb 1814 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley (Tailor) Mother's Name: Nancy
GS Film: 1751482 . Digital Folder: 004019487 . Image: 00904
The parents are clearly written David and Nancy.
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Name: Mary Oakley . Christening 21 Jul 1816 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley (Tailor) Mother's Name: Nanny
GS Film: 2105305 . Digital Folder: 004018995 . Image: 00429
Could David Oakley’s wife be Ann?
Marriage: David Oakley . Ann Daniels . 26 Jul 1801 . Over, Cheshire
GS Film: 1751482 . Digital Folder: 004019487 . Image: 00721
There are children recorded naming David Oakley and Nancy, Nanny and Ann(e), in Over. But there are also references that say David is a Tailor, Beer Seller or Labourer. From Over, but some say Congleton area.
One daughter Ann, has David and Ann Oakley as parents and he is a Tailor, so I feel Nancy could also be Nanny, Ann or Anne,
Before trying to link the children to parents, am I right to trace my lineage back to David and Ann Oakley?
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1814 baptism - both parish register and BT show Mary to be the daughter of David and Nancy Oakes of Swanlow. David = Tailor.
1816 baptism - parish register says David and Nanny Oakes of Swanlow, David = Tailor. BT says David and Nanny - of Swanlow, David = Tailor.
I can't see a burial for Mary 1814, at St Chad, Over.
Using just David as the father, and St Chad as the venue:
5 January 1812 - Caleb = David and Nanny of Swanlow - no occupation
10 January 1819 - Ann = David and Ann of Weaver, Tailor
8 July 1822 - Elizabeth = David and Anne of Weaver, Tailor
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Mary was born in 1814 and died 1834, buried in Astbury, Congleton.
I know there were families in Over and the Congleton area.
My first thought was that she left Over to give birth to Jane in 1831.
In the census records, I find children from one area living, I assume with relatives, in the other area.
This is the only Birth/Christening I can find:
Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Christening: Mary Oakley . 13 Feb 1814 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Nancy
GS Film: 2105305 . Digital Folder: 004018995 . Image: 00411
I believe once Mary died, Jane lived with William and Mary Williamson, that was in the 1841 Census.
There is a Mary which does not fit, as the Mary I am looking for died in 1834:
But it does show the problem I have with names and places.
This Mary would be born after the other had died and the dates do not seem to fit with this David and Ann.
1841 Census . Mill Street . Astbury, Cheshire . Congleton
David Oakley . M . 45 . Cheshire
Ann Oakley . F . 45 . Cheshire
Samuel Oakley . M . 15 . Cheshire
Emma Oakley . F . 14 . Cheshire
Mary Oakley . F . 4 . Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 119/8 . Page: 11: 00010
One David Oakley in the Congleton area was a beer seller, as there may be more than one, in also finding farmer/ag lab. I do not see a tailor night-shifting as beer seller or farmer.
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Image for 1814 baptism at St Chad, Over.
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And Mary Oakley 1816 - St Chad, Over.
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Hi BumbleB,
I am aware of both: 13 Feb 1814 is from the Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900 and 21 Jul 1816 is from Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000. Why there are two different dates I am struggling with. But Nancy seems to also be Nanny, even though the names are clearly written in the transcriptions. And Nancy could also be Ann, if they are known as Annie, which I have also seen. The date for Mary should be 1814.
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Both entries 1814 and 1816 appear in both parish registers and BT's. So two separate baptisms = 4 entries.
Parish register and BT for 1814 , AND parish register and BT for 1816.
Images for all 4 entries are on FindMyPast.
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Of the Oakley children, David Oakley the Tailor, most have Weaver or Swanlow as their location, but one is Astbury, Congleton. As for the Tailor’s wife, it is Ann, Anne, Nancy and Nanny. All four seem to be linked to other children, with the David Oakley being a Labourer when profession was offered.
Just before reading your last post, I reached the same conclusion, they are different children.
Christening: Mary Oakley . 21 Jul 1816 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Nancy
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C86623-3 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film number: 1751483
This is not the right Christening.
Christening: Mary Oakley . 13 Feb 1814 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Nancy
Image: Swanlow . Tailor
GS Film number: 2105305 . Digital Folder Number: 004018995 . Image Number: 00411
This seems to be the right one.
But there are also:
Christening: Caleb Oakley . 05 Jan 1812 . Saint Chad, Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Nanny
Image: Very different document layout.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01089-1 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film number: 0823615 IT 9
Christening: Ann Oakley . 10 Jan 1819 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann
Image: Weaver . Tailor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C86623-3 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film number: 1751483
Christening: Elizabeth Oakley . 08 Jul 1821 . Over, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Anne
Image: Weaver . Tailor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C86623-3 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film number: 1751483
Christening: Elizabeth Oakley . 08 Jul 1821 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Anne
Image: Weaver . Tailor
GS Film number: 2105305 . Digital Folder Number: 004018995 . Image Number: 00471
Christening: Samuel Oakley . 10 Jul 1825 . Astbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Congleton . Tailor
GS Film number: 1655360 . Digital Folder Number: 004011828 . Image Number: 00477
There are several children being Christened, often two at a time, by Ann Oakley with no father named, and looks like her moving into the area and Christening all to qualify for poor relief. On one it is recorded Labourer.
I do not know what to do next. The only marriage I can find between David Oakley and one of the named women being 1801, which is unlikely for Mary to be born in 1814.
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Hi BumbleB,
I am aware of both: 13 Feb 1814 is from the Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900 and 21 Jul 1816 is from Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000. Why there are two different dates I am struggling with. But Nancy seems to also be Nanny, even though the names are clearly written in the transcriptions. And Nancy could also be Ann, if they are known as Annie, which I have also seen. The date for Mary should be 1814.
No - there are two very separate instances of a baptism for Mary Oakley - and four separate entries = 2 from parish register and 2 from BT's.
PR = 13 February 1814 - entry no: 130, page 17. BT = 13 February 1814 - entry No: 14, no page number.
PR = 21 July 1816 - entry No: 414, page 52. BT = 21 July 1816 - entry No: 60, no page number.
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I went back to Mary Oakley, knowing she gave birth to Jane in the Congleton area and recorded as illegitimate. That was 1831 and she died in 1834 aged 20, I assume giving birth to Henry; both buried on 15th June 1834. The record says Infant.
I cannot find a Christening for Henry, in Mary’s name, but there is one with the same name and year:
Henry Oakley . 25 Apr 1834 . Astbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Mary
Image: Buglawton . Labourer
GS Film number: 1647849 . Digital Folder Number: 004011824 . Image Number: 00027
I can find no marriage between David Oakley and Mary. The record names Mary in the spouse column, but she may not be his spouse. Could it be her father registering the birth, especially if she was incapable? It is only 3 weeks before both died and buried on 15th June. All of this may be coincidence, especially as there could be more than one David and their offspring seem to follow the same pattern of names.
The only birth I can find is in Over. It is the right year, but that is no guarantee of accuracy.
Christening: Mary Oakley . 13 Feb 1814 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Nancy
Image: . Swanlow . Tailor (I associate Swanlow and Weaver as the same area)
GS Film number: 2105305 . Digital Folder Number: 004018995 . Image Number: 00411
Nancy is also linked to the other birth called Mary in 1816. Why call another child Mary, when the first was alive? Had the 1814 Mary died, I could understand it. In the 1851 Census, I feel Mary 1816 is called Mary Ann Oakley.
Taking the other children with David Oakley being the father and Tailor, 3 while living at Weaver and the last in Congleton:
Christening: Ann Oakley . 10 Jan 1819 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann
Image: Weaver . Tailor
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C86623-3 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film number: 1751483
Christening: Elizabeth Oakley . 08 Jul 1821 . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Anne
Image: Weaver . Tailor
GS Film number: 2105305 . Digital Folder Number: 004018995 . Image Number: 00471
Are Nancy and Ann(e) the same person? I cannot find anything relating to Nancy. Looking for deaths, there are very few in the Over area, compared to Congleton. After some children were born and registered in Over, it seems the family move to Congleton. Between 1821 and 1825, did the family move to Congleton? It would explain why Mary was there when she gave birth.
Christening: Samuel Oakley . 10 Jul 1825 . Astbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Congleton . Tailor
GS Film number: 1655360 . Digital Folder Number: 004011828 . Image Number: 00477
I need to go through all the children registered to David Oakley, regardless of the mother, to see if there are any other links. After 1825, I cannot find Tailor anywhere. Why would a Tailor become a Labourer or Brick Maker? But someone with Tailoring skills could work in the Silk Mills.
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There are Census records, even a second marriage and the death of David Oakley in the Congleton area, having been born in Over, Winsford. But I do not see a Mary born in 1814 or 1816. There is nothing in the Census records, nor a marriage; only the death of Mary 1814 in 1834.
Christening: David Oakley . 27 Apr 1794 . Saint Chad, Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: Caleb Oakley
Indexing Project (Batch): P01089-1 . System Origin: England-ODM . GS Film: 0823615 IT 9
Burial: Ann Oakley
Residence: Buglawton
Date: 13 May 1857 . Astbury, Cheshire . Age: 63 . Birth Date: 1794
GS Film number: 1647850 . Image Number: 378
Marriage: 25 Nov 1857 . Buglawton, Cheshire
David Oakley . Age (Formatted): 63y
Father's Name: Caleb Oakley
Spouse's Name: Phoebe Ann Holland
Spouse's Father's Name: John Holland
GS Film: 2149024 . Digital Folder: 004019106 . Image: 00919
It seems the same David Oakley; and if that is the case, both deaths below also fit.
Poor Law Union: Cheshire
Death: David Oakley . 10 Mar 1871 . Age (Formatted): 79y
Death: Phebe Ann Oakley . 27 Sep 1890 . Age (Formatted): 70y
Burial: David Oakley . 13 Mar 1871 . Age (Formatted): 78y
St Peters, Congleton, Cheshire, England
GS Film: 1941872 . Digital Folder: 004018697 . Image: 00982
Jan-Mar 1871 . Congleton, Cheshire
Age: 85 . Birth Year (Estimated): 1786
Congleton Volume: 8A . Page: 215
Burial: Phoebe Oakley . 01 Oct 1890 . Age: 68 . Astbury, Cheshire
GS Film: 1647851 . Digital Folder: 004011825 . Image: 00222
He is buried at St Pater’s in Congleton, whereas the others used St. Mary’s in Astbury. Even his second wife Phoebe is in Astbury. Mary was also buried in Astbury, while living in Buglawton.
I have looked sideways trying to find a way around the blockage. Nothing yet!
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Marriage: David Oakley . 26 Jul 1801 . Over, Cheshire
Spouse's Name: Ann Daniels
Image: both of this Parish by Banns
GS Film: 1751482 . Digital Folder: 004019487 . Image: 00721
This cannot be the David Oakley mentioned previously. Born 1794, he could not marry in 1801. Although I have not yet found further information regarding David, I seem to have found Ann Daniels.
Christening: Ann Daniels . 05 Apr 1776 . Church Minshull, Cheshire
Father's Name: Samuel Daniels . Mother's Name: Martha
GS Film: 2262977 . Digital Folder: 004019159 . Image: 00471
In marrying, Ann would be 25 years old. There are some Christening that I find interesting, but do not fully understand. Could these relate to the same Ann, if they were born before the 1801 marriage; to a Grimes?
Christening: Tho's Grimes Oakley . 03 Mar 1813 . St. Chad . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: / . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Swanlow
GS Film: 2105305 . Digital Folder: 004018995 . Image: 00404
Christening: John Grimes Oakley . 03 Mar 1813 . St. Chad . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: / . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Swanlow
GS Film: 2105305 . Digital Folder: 004018995 . Image: 00404
Christening: John Oakley . 03 Mar 1813 . St. Chad . Over, Cheshire
Father's Name: / . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Swanlow . Labourer
GS Film: 1751482 . Digital Folder: 004019487 . Image: 00879
Three children Christened on the same day, makes me think they were newly arrived in the area and her action was to ensure receipt of poor relief, should it be required.
Could Ann have married a Grimes? He then died after at least three children, and Ann moved to Over. There she married David Oakley in 1801 when the children were Christened also using his name. I accept, the name on Mary’s record says Nancy and the name Ann is used for several children after.
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I have now found reference to a marriage on the same day as the Christenings:
Marriage: Will.M Grimes
03 Mar 1813 . Over, Cheshire
Spouse's Name: Ann Oakley
GS Film: 1751482 . Digital Folder: 004019487 . Image: 00870
Marriage: William Grimes
03 Mar 1813 . Over, Cheshire
Spouse's Name: Ann Oakley
GS Film: 2105306 . Digital Folder: 004018996 . Image: 00066
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3 March 1813 - St Chad
William Grimes of Lower Peover and Ann Oakley of this parish by Licence and consent of parents.
Just for interest - perhaps:
22 March 1813 - Thomas Oakes and Sarah Bratt by Banns - one of your's?
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Only two 3 March 1813 baptisms:
Thomas Grimes, son of Ann Oakley of Swanlow
John Grimes, son of Ann Oakley of Swanlow
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The name Grimes appears in the Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 and by the time they reach the Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900, both children have Grimes removed. There are two, my mistake.
I initially though Ann remarried David Oakley, but from the dates, it looks like she remarried Thomas Grimes also at St. Chad’s, Over. It does mean, Ann and David are not the parents of Mary in 1814. And I do not understand why Grimes was removed, as they were going on to be Grimes.
This seems to be the end for me, I am not able to find a way through.
I will look at the Oakes, but mine is John.
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The marriage of William Grimes and Ann Oakley - dated 2 March 1813.
Just seen the Bond and Allegation for this marriage AND:
William Grimes Allostock in the "parochialry" of Lower Peover, Boatman. Aged 29 and upwards, bachelor.
Ann OKELL of the parish of Over. Aged 25 and upwards, spinster.
EDITED: I should have mentioned that the Surrogate who signed the Bond was G. Okell :)
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Thanks BumbleB, I am not very experienced at family history, so unsure what it means.
I am looking again at Mary, where she was born and her parents. The birth in 1814 to David and Nancy Oakley fits so well, especially Over St Chad's as there are other links with different generations.
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The marriage of William Grimes and Ann Oakley - dated 2 March 1813.
Just seen the Bond and Allegation for this marriage AND:
William Grimes Allostock in the "parochialry" of Lower Peover, Boatman. Aged 29 and upwards, bachelor.
Ann OKELL of the parish of Over. Aged 25 and upwards, spinster.
EDITED: I should have mentioned that the Surrogate who signed the Bond was G. Okell :)
Butting in here ;D
Okell is pronounced Oak-le - or at least it is in the Isle of Man, where the major brewery is Okell's! ;D ;D
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The problem, I think, arises from the fact that Okell and Oakley as a surname are quite common in the Winsford/Over area.
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There is the evidence that a Mary was Christened by David and Nancy Oakley on 13 February 1814 at St. Chad’s Over, he was a Tailor. When I search for a marriage, there are only two offered, the one in Over and another in Westminster, London, with both saying Ann, there is nothing for a Nancy.
From the death of Mary in Congleton, Jun 1834 aged 20, that Christening fits, nothing else seems to.
The only time Nancy is mentioned, is linked to both Christenings of Ann 1814 and Ann 1816. Why two children named Ann, 2 years apart, when the first child was living, is beyond me. They seem the same couple. Also, the occupation Tailor occurs several times linked to the children of Ann Oakley mainly in Over, but there is also one in Congleton.
Apart from being a common name in the Over area, it seems to replicate in the Congleton area from which there is more than one link. I can dismiss the two marriages, as they do not fit the timeline, for one reason or another. The second issue, is relying on church records, many of which will not have survived.
Thanks for your help, but it is time to call it a day. I will write up what I know and why I could not go further back.
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Mary Oakley who dies 1834.
Astbury, in the parish of Congleton - images available via FindMyPast:
Mary Oakley of Buglawton, aged 20. Buried 15 June 1834.
Henry Oakley, son of Mary Oakley of Buglawton, infant. Buried 15 June 1834
Henry Oakley, baptised 25 April 1834, son of David (Labourer) and Mary Oakley of Buglawton.
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I have mentioned the baptism of Henry. As both were buried on the same day, I wondered if she was capable of the baptism and it was caried out by her father. There was no marriage of Mary to an Oakley. It looks like the baptised Henry, is the same one who died a few weeks later.
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Good question :-\
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There are many births and deaths for David and Mary Oakley, but no marriages for either, or both together; it is like marriage records have been lost, along with his birth.
There are two marriage one day apart and at the same church in Astbury. They are next to each other in the records. If they were the same family, why a day apart and surely Caleb would witness both. But this family is strange, so he could be the father of both. He might not be the father of either.
Marriage: John Butterworth . Batchelor
24 Feb 1834 . Astbury, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name: Ann Oakley . Spinster
Witnesses: Caleb Oakley . S. Cartlidge
GS Film: 1647849 . Digital Folder: 004011824 . Image: 00050
Marriage: William Chell . Single
25 Feb 1834 . Astbury, Cheshire
Spouse's Name: Sarah Oakley . Single
Witnesses: Owen Kennesley . S. Cartlidge
GS Film: 1655361 . Digital Folder: 004011829 . Image: 00563
Looking at the records, many have S. Cartlidge as the second witness.
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I personally don't think there is anything particularly strange about the marriages not being on the same day, nor why Caleb didn't witness both of them. It might have depended on when people managed to get time off work - Christmas Day was usually fairly popular. And I think that S Cartlidge is a church official.
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Following on from the Henry Oakley baptism in 1834, there is another:
Christening: David Oakley . 11 Nov 1834 . Astbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Additional Image Info: Buglawton . Labourer
GS Film: 1655361 . Digital Folder: 004011829 . Image: 00531
Could Mary be one of their earliest children, who reached adulthood while they were still having children? Caleb 1811/12 and Mary 1814, could just squeeze into being their children. But the marriage of 1801 does not fit this couple.
1841 Census: Mill Street . Astbury, Cheshire
David Oakley . M . 45 (1792-1796) . Cheshire
Ann Oakley . F . 45 (1792-1796) . Cheshire
Samuel Oakley . M . 15 . Cheshire
Emma Oakley . F . 14 . Cheshire
Mary Oakley . F . 4 . Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 119/8 . Page Number: 11
Samuel fits with the Christening:
Christening: Samuel Oakley . 10 Jul 1825 . Astbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: David Oakley . Mother's Name: Ann Oakley
Image: Congleton . Tailor
GS Film: 1655360 . Digital Folder: 004011828 . Image: 00477
All children before 1825, linked to David (Tailor) and Ann were in Swanlow/Weaver.
1851 Census: Mill Street . Buglawton, Cheshire
David Oakley . Head . M . 57 (1794) . Middlewich, Cheshire . Beer Seller
Ann Oakley . Wife . F . 57 . Middlewich, Cheshire
Mary Ann Oakley . Daughter . F . 15 . Buglawton, Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 2167 / 156 . Page Number: 24
1861 Census: Mill Street . Buglawton, Cheshire
John Oakley . Head . M . 30 . Buglawton, Cheshire . Brick Maker
Emma Oakley . Wife . F . 28 . Leek, Staffordshire
Sarah A Oakley . Daughter . F . 7
Elizabeth Oakley . Daughter . F . 6 . Buglawton, Cheshire
David Oakley . Son . M . 3 . Buglawton, Cheshire
Samuel Oakley . Son . M . 0 . Mow Cop, Staffordshire
David Oakley . Father . M . 67 (1794) . Middlewich, Cheshire . Brick Maker
RG09 . Piece/Folio: 2609 / 28 . Page Number: 6
1851 Census: Dane Bank Road . Astbury, Cheshire
Caleb Oakley . Head . M . 39 (1812) . Buglawton, Cheshire . Brickmaker
Mary Oakley . Wife . F . 29 . Buglawton, Cheshire . Silk Doubler
Caleb Oakley . Son . M . 1 . Eaton, Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 2161 / 377 . Page Number: 18
I believe after Mary died, Jane who would be 3/4 years old went to live with the Williamsons, but as yet, I have not found anything about them.
1841 Census: Weaver Court House . Middlewich, Cheshire
William Williamson . M . 60 . Cheshire
Mary Williamson . F . 60 . Cheshire
Jane Oakley . F . 8 (1833) . Cheshire
HO107 . Piece/Folio: 96/4 . Page Number: 13
I believe that is how she knew the Oakes family, then married in 1849, but at present I cannot find them on the 1851 Census.
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I am trying to find the birth of John Oakes in 1828 from the Darnhall/Wettenhall area. Although I am following my maternal line, I would like more information than a date from their marriage: Can anyone help?
04 Oct 1849 . Buglawton, Cheshire . Congleton 19 95
John Oakes . Jane Oakley
Father's Name: Richard Oakes
GS Film: 2149024 . Digital Folder: 004019106 . Image: 00881
Intended Marriage: 01 Oct 1849
John Oakes . Age: 21 . Jane Oakley . Age: 19
John Oakes of Darnhall in the Parish of Whitegate in the County of Chester
Farmer . Twenty One Years . Batchelor
Jane Oakley of the District of Buglawton in the County of Chester aforesaid
Nineteen Years . Spinster
Parochial Chapel of the District of Buglawton
And he further made the Oath that the said Jane Oakley hath no father living or Guardian of her person appointed by the Court of Chancery and having authority to consent to the marriage.
Signed: John Oakes
GS Film: 1911717 . Digital Folder: 4018722 . Image: 1113
There are only two I can find with the father’s name Richard and neither fit:
Baptism: John Oakes . 16 May 1819 . Bunbury, Cheshire
Father's Name: Richard Oakes . Mother's Name: Ellen
GS Film: 2093505 . Digital Folder: 004018860 . Image: 00742
Apart from the date, the location could work, but 1819 is a long way from 1828. I could not find a death for this John, so another could have the same name.
Baptism: John Oakes . 13 Feb 1829 . Backford, Cheshire
Father's Name: Richard Oakes (Farmer) . Mother's Name: Ellinor Oakes
GS Film: 2093492 . Digital Folder: 004018858 . Image: 00693
The date is closer, while Backford is between Chester and Ellesmere Port, nowhere near Darnhall.
I believe he died 18 Nov 1905 . 77 . Bucklow 8a 137 . Poor Law Union: Cheshire, which fits with its date, Census records and family. It seems the only thing I cannot find is his birth
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I think I have answered my question. I accepted the transcribed age of 21 offered by Family Search, but looking at the original document, it stated he was ‘twenty one Years and upwards’. Looking at the Census information there is a difference in age between John and Jane Oakes ranging from 8 to 11 years; not the 2 years I thought. It was a simple mistake and something I should have picked up on earlier. The Christening of 1819 now fits perfectly. Arrrgh!!