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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Saratan on Monday 27 January 20 08:51 GMT (UK)
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The pension record of my grandfather William Clayton shows he had the rank of fitter in the 56th battery/34 Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery (Reg. No. 91290) when he was KIA on 21St August 1917. He is remembered at Vlamertinghe Military Cemetery which duplicates this information.
I assume that 1) he was killed in the third Battle of Ypres just after the Battle of Langemarch (16-18th) and 2) the 56th Battery was a Howitzer one attached to the 2nd Division. I have not been able to find where the Battery was when he died. Any help gratefully received.
Secondly, his Army Form B200 showed that joined at Athlone on 2.9.14 and ‘enlisted for 3 yrs army service’ with ‘Service towards limited engagement reckons from 2.9.14.’.
The column entries on the B200 Form are as follows:
RFA Attested & posted Gr 2.9.10?
RFA 183 Posted Dr? 18.11.14
RFA 4 Sect
10 Bal? Posted Gr 1.12.14
Res Bde 2B Posted Gr 14.10.15
4A Res Bde Posted Gr 15.11.15
Exped Fce? Posted Gr 20.11.5
2nd Bal? Posted Gr 26.11.15
RFA 44 Bde Dfe? Posted Gr 1 Dec 15
34th Bde Posted Gr 20.5.16
RFA 56 Btry/34 Bde Posted Gr 25.5.16
Appointed fitter 30.9.16
RFA Becomes 56 Bty 34 Bde 27.5.16
115/47402
56/34 Bde Killed
In action Ftr 21-8-17
From this record I am not sure about the 1910 date but otherwise think he was initially on reserve, sent to France in the 44th Brigade and then on 20th May he was posted to 34th Brigade that I found was resting at Dieval.
He was born in Marston, Staffordshire and while other relatives seem to join their local county regiments, I do not know why he had to go to Ireland to join when there were recruitment centres for the RFA closer to home (and where he was employed).
Any suggestions would again be gratefully received.
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34 Brigade was a 2nd Division brigade up to Jan 1917 and then became an Army FA Brigade.
The diary for the period covering when he joined the brigade in May 1916 is:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351936
This is on Ancestry at:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1327_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43112_1324_0-00000 (towards the latter part of the diary)
The war diary for the later period covering when he was killed is here:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/21f4018b6a5548079dc2e740d99dac0a
It is not on Ancestry
The 2 9 10 at the start of his record is clearly wrong, it is 2 9 14. The record looks like a copy, everything in the same hand and missing detail. My suggestion is that he didn't attest at Athlone, he was sent from wherever he attested to Athlone, one of the RA depots, for training with 5 Reserve Brigade stationed there. He later joined 183 Bde which was raised in Hampstead. The local connection tended not to play a great part in units other than infantry, recruits were sent where the depots had places for them.
Hw spent time in 10 Division Ammunition Column (in Ireland) and with reserve brigades in UIK before going to France in Nov 1915 first to 2nd Division Ammunition Column then 44 Brigade and then 34 Brigade. The last entry makes no sense saying that (two lines up) 56 Btry 34 Bde became 56 Bty 34 Bde, which is the same thing - though there were changes in May 1916 which the diary may make clearer.
MaxD
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Absolutely brilliant. Many, many thanks - will check out the war diaries.
I've already managed to do that for my other grandfather but was stuck with William.
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If the location gives difficulty, give a shout.
MaxD
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Hi MaxD, thanks for the war diaries link. I was able to look at the Somme war maps that are held at The National Library in London. They have very English place names including Wilson’s farm where the 49th Battery was situated. Bank Farm and Toronto, the locations of the 246th RFA later in the campaign are also shown. Bert Matthews, my other grandfather was in this unit.
The map is cropped to meet the Image size limitation. Blue lines (L-R) original line;1st Aug; 26th Aug; 20th Sept; 26th Sept. Can email full image separately.
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Thank you for the update. That was a good move! The map can be compared with the trench map of the time:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.87131&lon=2.90887&layers=101464903&b=1 (use the blue slider button to reveal the present day satellite image).
As you've seen from the diary, the entry on the 21st only mentions the wounding of the battery commander although the shelling on the 20th is recorded.
Precisely where 56 Battery was is not straightforward to determine. The annotation "Wilson Farm" earlier was the position of the brigade headquarters from 8th August which then withdrew to "near Vlamertinghe" on 11th. The batteries used the guns of 174 Brigade from 8th to 11th and then "went forward to man their own guns". Apart from the personnel of 56 Battery coming out of the line for 24 hours rest on 16/17 Aug, there was no other movement up to the time of his death.
Unfortunately 174 Brigade’s diary for Jul to Sep 1917 is missing! The controlling headquarters at the time records the handovers and take overs but doesn’t record where they were!
Going back further, on 1 August the diary records each battery moving one section to advanced positions in [what was formerly] No Mans Land, You have to go back to 12 July to find 56 Battery (and others) moving to positions “one and a half miles north of Ypres”. The sum total of all of that is that on 20/21 August all one can say is that the batteries were split with positions in the Wilson farm area and another position further forward. All fairly typical for artillery deployments at the time of intense activity.
Whatever, I’m glad you got something out of the diaries and the maps. Note though that Ypres was a long way from the Somme! This was the 3rd Battle of Ypres, also to become known as Passchendaele.
MaxD