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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Offaly (Kings) => Topic started by: AUSSIE michelle on Monday 03 February 20 01:01 GMT (UK)
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My great, great,great grandmother was Ann WHEELER (born SMITH aka MALONE aka Mahony and came out on the Earl Grey scheme. The ship - INCONSTANT commanded by Captain Patrick Culliton, sailed from Plymouth for Adelaide in South Australia. On board were 209 Irish female migrants who sailed on the Inconstant from Plymouth to Adelaide are available from shipping records of the times. These young Irish orphan girls from Newcastle 18, Mullingar 40, Tullamore 18, Mountmellick 22, Parsontown 30, Limerick 24, Tipperary 22, North Dublin 12 (Total 186), left Ireland as part of Earl Grey's PAUPER IMMIGRATION SCHEME. Ann was born Tullamore, Kings County,(County Offaly) Ireland Circa 1832.
The INCONSTANT reached Adelaide on June 7th, 1849.
From what I can see Ann came out as Ann Smith (her mothers maiden name). Ann spent 5 years South Australia where she met and married Joshua John WHEELER - Aged 20 - Kooringa, The Murray, Burra Burra, South Australia - May 24 1851 and spent 59 years Victoria.
Ann and John had 6 children.
Her mothers name was Eliza Malone (born SMITH) & unknown fathers name.
Ann was Aged about 21 came to South Australia. Fable has it, with her sister, but cannot find evidence of sister.
Ann died Gwynne street, Richmond, Victoria, Australia Apr 7 1909
If anyone can build on this as this is all I have would be very much appreciated. Thank you
So I am seeking information on parents?? Ann – herself??
Thank you
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Can you please list all the information on this certificate -
6524/1909 WHEELER Ann
parents Eliza SMITH / Wheeler Malone
died at Rmond age 77
all the information is important so please include everything.
Is it a typed transcription or a handwritten document?
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Hi
Do you know Ann’s religion?
If she was Roman Catholic, the Tullamore Baptism Registers are freely available online at:-
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0933.
The 1827-1836 may show Ann, or siblings.
Regards
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Thank wivenhoe,
This is all it says on the death cert.
6524/1909 WHEELER Ann
parents Eliza SMITH / Wheeler Malone
died at Rmond age 77
Deciphered as Ann married Joshua wheeler and her mother married Malone.
Died Richmond (This is Melbourne Victoria Australia
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I believe that Wivenhoe is asking for information from the death certificate, not the index entry.
There does not appear to be a surviving passenger list for the Inconstant.
https://archives.sa.gov.au/finding-information/discover-our-collection/migration-and-crew/passenger-lists-1845-1940
The only mention of SMITH is the newspaper listing and that was for a 'Mary'.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71623930
To trace your girl in Ireland you need to know her religion. Where has the birthplace of Tullamore come from? I am having trouble finding any registered births to Joshua and Ann except for William Henry in 1867 in Victoria. Do you have that birth cert?
There is a baptism at Tullamore 4 March 1829, for an Anne daughter of Patrick MALONE(?) and Eliza SMYTH, sponsors John CLEARY and Ellen ROURKE.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635172#page/35/mode/1up
There are a lot of gaps in the Tullamore registers.
Debra :)
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Thank you very much Dundee/Debra
I am new to this and I didn't understand exactly what was meant I don't have the actual death certificate. The information is from the Victorian BMD.
The information for the Inconstant came from the Earl Grey scheme website. ( I checked this with a professor who looks after this site) and it seems she used her mothers maiden name & name Mary (but now I think this all needs to be gone over again as something not right here but Ann landed in South Australlia??
I have Marriage cert for great gran Mary Bombardieri which lists her mothere was born in Tullamore, Kings County, Ireland
https://irishfaminememorial.org/orphans/database/
Ann landed in South Australia and was married there
Joshua John WHEELER
Aged 20 to Joshua john wheeler Marriage index 1788-1950 - page 338, vol 14.
Kooringa, The Murray, Burra Burra, South Australia . May 24 1851
Children:Birth of daughter:
Annie PINNELL (born WHEELER)
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia 1852
Birth of daughter:
Emily wheeler Bendigo, Victoria, Australia Circa 1857
Mary BOMBARDIERI (born WHEELER) Sandhurst Victoria Australia REF: Eaglehawk Pioneer Register & Marriage certificate Circa 1858
Birth of son: John wheeler Australia Circa 1859
Birth of daughter: Alice Elizabeth BLIGHT (born WHEELER) Victoria, Australia Circa 1867
It is quite common to to see the name Ann Smith as the mother (IGI Index). Ann Smith aka Malone aka Maloney
Birth of son: William Henry WHEELER
circa 1867 Arnold Street, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia #: 24360
Still investigating children's births with the circa.
I have no idea of Ann's religion but at a guess I think you may have found her & her parents and thank you so much for this as I had no idea where to look and for this and if it even survived.
Joshua John Wheeler worked as a brewer in a pub in Bendigo and died from a seizure
Thunders Brewery, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia Jan 11 1868
Thank you so much for your asstance and now I will go over these shipping lists again. as something definitely not correct there
Please if you have any more advice let me know as appreciated
Regards Michelle
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Thank you L.H for your assistance
Much appreciated
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You need to see the information on the death certificate for Ann WHEELER, died 1909. You can pay for, and download, an image of this document at the VIC BDM website.
Are these people your family?
BDM VIC
birth
24360/1867 WHEELER William Henry parents Ann MALONE / Joshua
born S'HURST
death
2359/1868 WHEELER Joshua John parents Kezia / UNKNOWN
born LOND age 51
marrige
246/1869 WHEELER Annie married PINNELL, John Frost
marriage
2740/1877 WHEELER May married BOMBARDIERI Giacomo
marriage
6686/1885 WHEELER Alice Elizth married BLIGHT, Hugh Grannell
death
6524/1909 WHEELER Ann parents Eliza SMITH / Wheeler Malone
died Rmond age 71
death
8692/1911 BOMBARDIERI Mary parents Mary SMITH / Wheeler Wm
died Ehawk age 52
death
3397/1913 WHEELER Emily parents Ann MALONE / WHEELER Joshua Jno
died Rmond age 58
death
13167/1920 PINNELL Annie parents Unknown / Wheeler Wm
died at Bendigo age 68
death
8964/1951 BLIGHT Alice Elizabeth parents Ann SMITH / WHEELER Joseph John
born Sandhurst died Richmond age 84
Bendigo Advertiser 14 Jan 1868 p2 (death of Joshua John WHEELER)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/87893355?
.....51 years old.........married seventeen years .....six children living.....
"...I have Marriage cert for great gran Mary Bombardieri which lists her mothere was born in Tullamore, Kings County, Ireland"
The marriage certificate would ask for parents' names, but not their birthplace. That would certainly be a bonus.
Can you please list all the information on this marriage document for your great grand mother.
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Hi Wivehoe
Thank you for persevering. with this much appreciated.
So it was late when I was typing last night No it is not marriage cert ( I appologise)
But it is the birth certificate that I bought for William Henry Wheeler a couple of weeks ago ( I wanted to get the most information).
Yes these are the children of Joshua & Ann
As you can see sometimes Ann - the mother goes under maiden name of Smith and other times under Malone - fathers name and other times under Wheeler - married name.
Very confusing!!!
The death of Joshua I actually found but this was all.
My Great Gran Mary and husband Giacomo marriage cert I have and information is (very hard to see and decipher)
1877 4 August St Pauls Sandhurst (this is now Bendigo Victoria )
Giamcomo Bombardieri - Bachelor - Lombardy Italy - Whipstick (eaglehawk) - ?? Bombadieri -Anna Peroggia (looks like) - woodcarter - 25 - Farmer
Mary Wheeler - spinster - Sandhurst, Victoria - 19 - Joshua John Wheeler - Ann Smith -
Your assistance again I thank you for
May I ask are you based in Australlia??
Cheers Michelle
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Welcome to RChat, Michelle ;D
You are very fortunate that your Aussie ancestors BDMs can be found in Victoria ... The Vic BDM actual records are very very detailed, as good as Scottish ones. :)
Here's a live link from RChat's Resources board for Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Cheers, JM (I am a tad NSW centric, sorry, I am not much 'chop' on Victoria or Ireland quests. )
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I live in Australia.
From the marriage certificate, 1877....who are the witnesses?
Where have you found this information -
"..Ann spent 5 years South Australia.........spent 59 years Victoria."
"..Ann died Gwynne street, Richmond"
If Ann is widowed, 1868, with six children, you might think there would be......maybe three under ten years old. Ann does not remarry so how does Ann support her children. They would likely go into institutionalised care.....or....who helps Ann to support her children?
Where you see SMITH and MALONE as family names for Ann, it is useful to know the name of the informant. Who is naming Ann's family. I am not suggesting that you buy each certificate but consider that Ann might not be naming herself ie Ann is not the informant.
Can you please list all the information on this certificate...everything please...do not leave out any information.
24360/1867 WHEELER William Henry parents Ann MALONE / Joshua
born S'HURST
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WWI enlistment.
N(ational) A(rhives) of A(ustralia)
WHEELER William Henry : Service Number - 1520 : Place of Birth - Bendigo VIC : Place of Enlistment - Ayr QLD : Next of Kin - (Sister) BLIGHT Elizabeth
William Henry WHEELER died 29 Jul 1916, France. He was creative about his age, giving 39 years at enlistment. In resolving the matter of who should receive his service medals, there is some useful information about his brothers and sisters, whose order in the family determines the order in which the medals are offered. Correspondence, March 1923 -
Image 21 of 53
(my transcription)
"...I am the only sister and John WHEELER living I don't know his whereabouts last I heard of him as M HARINGTON..."
1922/F/9178 QLD BDM death
WHEELER William Henry
Date of death: 29/07/1917
Mother: Ann Smith
Father: Joshua John Wheeler
Why was there a death registered, in Queensland, in 1922, for William Henry WHEELER?
Who is the informant......with incorrect death year?
Roll of Honour (William Henry WHEELER)
...age at death 46 years......
Person to whom reference can be made: Mrs CORNISH, 28 Page Street South Melbourne
Who is Mrs CORNISH?
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1922 d c. Queensland ... The 'F' in the ref number signifies it was one of many registrations prepared by BDM directly for the Queenslanders who served and did not return. 1922 is the year that Qld BDM raised most of the paperwork, as recognition and to help with probate matters. New Zealand BDM had similar policy too.
Add 'F' is the WWI clue.
JM
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Roll of Honour (William Henry WHEELER)
...age at death 46 years......
Person to whom reference can be made: Mrs CORNISH, 28 Page Street South Melbourne
Who is Mrs CORNISH?
Different street number but close....
1922
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Marriage Beatrice Mary BLIGHT to Jospeh Leslie CORNISH
Daughter of Hugh BLIGHT and (Annie?) Elizabeth WHEELER
So William Henry Wheeler’s niece?
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Hi and thank you will get to next questions shortly
Please NOTE: Ann came out as Ann Malone on the Inconstant NOT Smith as I had thought.
So please NOTE this
Thank you
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Thank you Majm firstly and yes most of my ancestors are Victorian based and thank you for the link
Cheers Michelle
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Can you please give consideration to the questions that I have asked at reply#10
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Hi Wivenhoe
So on the marriage cert (which is really hard to see the witnesses are : ?? Bombadieri -Anna Peroggia (looks like) & Joshua John Wheeler - Ann Smith
So to the next it was on trove in a newspaper cutting - This is the part "The evidence of deceased's wife showed that she had been married to deceased for seventeen years, and they had six children living". Bendigo advertiser 1858
"..Ann spent 5 years South Australia.........spent 59 years Victoria."
This I worked out from the time she arrived in South Australia had a child and the next child was born in Victoria
"..Ann died Gwynne street, Richmond"
This came directly from a relative - the street of the Pinnell family
Gwynne street, Richmond, Victoria, Australia #: 06524
Apr 7 1909
REF:Ann Wheeler Gender: Female Birth: Circa 1832 Age: 77 Death: 1909 - Richmond, Victoria, Australia Father: Malone Wheeler Mother: Eliza Smith Registration #: 06524
If Ann is widowed, 1868, with six children, you might think there would be......maybe three under ten years old. Ann does not remarry so how does Ann support her children. They would likely go into institutionalised care.....or....who helps Ann to support her children?
Now this I can't answer?? No idea how she supported the children?? but they all grew up in Bendigo area
Where you see SMITH and MALONE as family names for Ann, it is useful to know the name of the informant. Who is naming Ann's family. I am not suggesting that you buy each certificate but consider that Ann might not be naming herself ie Ann is not the informant.
Yes I understand that and this is no doubt the reason name keeps changing?? & definitely can't buy all certificates unfortunately. But may have to purchase another I think?? to get a few more answers??
I have attached the birth cert so you can read.
Also yes I did find the War information on William Henry wheeler. So this was useful
The Cornish name moves in down the line - married in. But not my side of the family as I am Bombardieri side.
Hopefully this helps & thank you
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Hi Mckha489 Yes this lady Cornish was a niece but not on my side down another line. I haven't filled that in on my heritage tree as yet as concentrating on my direct ancestors.
And thank you for the clue with WW1 with F letter
Thank you
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Hi Wivenhoe,
Trying to answer as I read William Henry Wheeler was killed in France
Cause: Killed in Action WW1, Pozieres, Somme Sector, France July 29 1916
Burial - Courcelette British Cemetery, France.
He is rather easy to find information on
Only when you start going back that it gets hard
Thank you again
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Hi Wivenhoe
So to the next it was on trove in a newspaper cutting - This is the part "The evidence of deceased's wife showed that she had been married to deceased for seventeen years, and they had six children living". Bendigo advertiser 1858
This is the news item you refer to.
Always important to get years carefully right
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/87893355
Article regarding the inquest to death of Joshua John WHEELER
Bendigo Advertiser Tue 14 Jan 1868
Sue
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"..Ann died Gwynne street, Richmond"
This came directly from a relative - the street of the Pinnell family
Gwynne street, Richmond, Victoria, Australia #: 06524
Apr 7 1909
REF:Ann Wheeler Gender: Female Birth: Circa 1832 Age: 77 Death: 1909 - Richmond, Victoria, Australia Father: Malone Wheeler Mother: Eliza Smith Registration #: 06524
Perhaps there was a branch of the PINNELL family living in Gwynne Street at that time, or perhaps lodging there from time to time, but John Frost PINNELL was registered to vote as a resident of QLD.
1908 PINNELL, John Frost Campbell st. Bowen Hill Stonemason.
It seems that others PINELL were in Bendigo
1909 At Lilac Street Bendigo.
PINELL, Annie a nurse
PINNELL, Lena, Home duties
PINNELL, Lily MAUD, Home Duties
PINNELL Thomas Henry, a miner.
No Electoral registration for PINNELL in Richmond Victoria. or nearby at all.
This does not necessarily mean they were never there.
Sue
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Hugh BLIGHT and Elizabeth nee WHEELER lived in Richmond in 1909, but not in Gwynne Street.
BLIGHT, Hugh. 39 Brighton Street , South Richmond. Plasterer
BLIGHT, Elizabeth. 39 Brighton Street , South Richmond. HD
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Hi sparrett
Thank you so much for coming in with this information
Yes this is the newspaper article.
I am only learning about the Pinnell family as it is not my line but have been helping a lady who is a Pinnell. As I am the Mary Wheeler/Bombardieri side - daughter of Ann & Joshua
I gladly receive any information as anything that can help with the lady Ann and Joshua (they were in south Australia before Victoria ) and so hard to find much for south Australia but I can tell you the man Joshua his father also went by the name Wheeler was Wheelerbreed or Wheelerbread.
I think I found the birth London, England
Nov 10 1816/baptism : Whitechapel, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom
Apr 6 1817of him but can't find a record of him coming to south Australia???
The name Bombardieri coming out from Italy is just as hard
Thank you for your assistance
& yes not sure about this Gwynne street, Richmond??
I will have to ask about it with the relative -as she may know
Thank you
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At NAA web page
search...........Giacomo............ Bombardieri............ naturalisation
He is 47 years old at 1893 and might be your family.
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Hi Wivenhoe
Thank yo very much as yes this is my Giacomo Bombardieri
This is fantastic to have
Cheers Michelle
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What denomination (or at least the clergy's name) for the South Australian marriage of Ann and Joshua in 1851.... that info may well be very helpful to the Irish RChatters ...
JM
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HI Majm
Unfortunately I have no idea of what denomination and clergy name was??
How do I find this information please ??
I am sorry I don't know what the Irish RChatters is??
Thank you for helping
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Do you have the 1851 marriage cert, if so, what does it say about married according 'to the rites of' or perhaps according 'to the forms of' .... (the Church of England, or the Church of Rome, or the Baptist, or Wesleyan or Free Church of Scotland or any of the many other denominations) .... or what was the name of the clergyman who married them ... I know that South Australian marriage certs are scant on info, but they should at least give you not just the names of the bride and groom but also the details of the denomination or at least the clergyman who married them. Online indexes give the reference number as Page 338, Volume 14, Joshua WHEELER and Ann MAHONY, 24 May 1851, at Kooringa, The Murray, South Australia. See also https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
Because your thread is on the Irish boards, I referred to the Irish RChatters ... being those RChatters who frequent the Ireland boards here at RChat and who, in my opinion, they have far more experience, knowledge and understanding of researching Irish records than RChatters like me who frequent the Australia Board. Earlier on this thread you were asked for the denomination (see reply #2) and Debra explained why at #4 so I am confident that IF you were able to provide that info that the Irish RChatters would be able to advise you further about how to seek out the origins of your Ann who married Joshua Wheeler in S. A. in 1851.
ADD ... notice the spelling of Ann's surname on that index... :) :)
JM
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Hi Majm
I was just sitting here thinking should I purchase the marriage cert?? & would it give me more information??
The only thing that I could see would be the where they were married and I can see that they had 2 churches in the Church of England & Methodist.
As they don't give away much on the certificate
And YES I did see the spelling. I have come across this once before but definitely a mistake - this I know from first hand knowledge of a direct relative down another line as I asked her.
Totally agree I have learnt so much the last couple of days and that is great to know there is a lot of Irish people who look. I didn't actually relise I was on an Irish thread - thank god I am
I hope people keep popping into look
Thanks
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As far as I am aware, in any of the colonies/states of Australia it has not ever been a formal requirement for people to marry within a church building ... and of course the clergy in the mid 19th century were on horseback moving on a circuit through rural communities, conducting baptisms and marriages, while many a burial service was conducted by a lay person.
JM
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"..Gwynne street, Richmond??
I will have to ask about it with the relative -as she may know"
Relative needs to do more than just repeat the statement. Ask relative where this information comes from.
The marriage record, South Australia, May 24 1851, is the earliest evidence you have that your ancestor existed.
The arrival on the Inconstant, 1849, is a possibility, but not confirmed.
The marriage certificate, 1851, will identify denomination of church. Religious affiliation is important in researching ancestors in Ireland.
The marriage certificate, 1851, will names witnesses, who might be connected to the bride and groom.
You will see if Ann signs the record....is literate.
You need to see the death certificate 6524/1909 WHEELER Ann
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Thank Wivenhoe
I am going to order a death cert from BMD now.
I just don't think the marriage one would assist as SA state they only copy information as can't copy the actual certificate (disappointing)
But will do this now
Thank you again
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I have been scrolling through Trove's digitised newspapers for South Australia family notices 1850 - 1855. There are a number of mentions of clergy at Kooringa ... so I can assure you that there were more than just Church of England & Methodist.
I can also see that the Vet Surgeon at Kooringa was a chap surnamed WHEELER ... - was he related to Joshua I wonder :) (Add, probably with given names of Robert Alexander :) as per father's names on the SA birth index for Edward born 1852)
See the following live link :
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195940174 Sth Aust Gazette & Mining 20 June 1850
MARRIED by the Rev J Pollitt, at Kooringa, Burra ... Mr R Wheeler, veterinary surgeon, Burra Copper Works ....
JM
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Hi Majm
WOW I have spent 2 hours scrolling through Trove (hopeless at that)
I also went through shipping lists and couldn't find a wheeler landing there (made me think he landed somewhere else pehaps?? and moved there?
Now this would be interesting if this man related. ??
I am not sure how to find out?
I have Joshua born though
Age <1
Christening
Whitechapel, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom
Apr 6 1817
It was a Burra site I clicked on where they said only those 2 churches. I've any been at this a couple of year LOL. Sometimes Im good at I and then I just crawl.
Now that was disappointing to a degree. I just bought the death certificate of Ann Wheeler and I knew all information.
Nothing different on there
Thank you again for your help
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https://burrasa.info/pages/townmap.html
Churches are colour coded the same as each other. ;D
ADD
https://burrasa.info/# databases :)
JM
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https://burrasa.info/pages/burrachurches.html
Anglican (C of E) from 1847
Baptist from 1849
Bible Christian from 1848
Catholic from 1849
Congregational/Presbyterian from 1850
Lutheran from 1851
Primitive Methodist from 1849
Wesleyan & Methodist from 1838
JM
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Thank you majm
I just found this page and trying now to go through it.
& definitely more churches but If I could have got a copy (like Victoria) of marriage) BUT as they only write it out themselves to print up I don't feel it is worth $25 (as it stated SA government does not allow copies) as I just bought the death cert & only would tell me the church which I suspect is catholic as Ann baptism is in the Irish Catholic registers.
Thank you again. I will keep at it
& I found that ann did indeed died at 6 Gwynne street, Richmond
Thank you
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Thank you majm
I just found this page and trying now to go through it.
& definitely more churches but If I could have got a copy (like Victoria) of marriage) BUT as they only write it out themselves to print up I don't feel it is worth $25 (as it stated SA government does not allow copies) as I just bought the death cert & only would tell me the church which I suspect is catholic as Ann baptism is in the Irish Catholic registers.
Thank you again. I will keep at it
& I found that ann did indeed died at 6 Gwynne street, Richmond
Thank you
Your reply simply does not make good sense to me.
You see, you have not mentioned the name of the church as per that Vic BDM death cert or any of the usual family history details on it that may be useful to advance your quest if you anticipating further help .... BUT
You mention that already have her baptism, and it is in the Irish Catholic Registers … So it seems to me that you actually already know the answer to your quest - you know her name, when and where baptised, and likely also her father's name, and the names of her sponsors.
So
;) ;) exactly from the baptism record, what name was given on her baptism as her surname/family name ...
and
;) ;) exactly from the Vic BDM d.c. when and where was she born, what was recorded on the d.c. as her birth surname (spelling as per the d.c.), what was the informant's relationship to her?
JM
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Hi Majm
Sorry it didn't make sense
So sorry
You must have missed earlier post as a person told me of where to find this
So I looked thrugh the Catholic registers and found her Born in 1829 and her fathers name & mothers name.
So I learnt Ann was catholic.
I cbought the death cert to see if anything else but nothing different.
- What I meant with the SA BMD is that it would not give me anything I didn't have and paying $25 for a typed copy was not worth it. Whereas Victoria is a photocopy of original of the time.
So her Baptism 4th February Ann D(daughter) of Patrick Malone & Eliza Smyth SS (sponsor?) John Cleary & Ellen Rourke - 1829
Her Vic BMD - Anne Wheeler Died 7th April 1909 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond
father & mother - not known Malone & Eliza Malone formerly Smith
Born Tullamore, Kings County Ireland -5 years south Australia and 59 years Victoria.
Married Burra Burra, Kooringa south Australia age 20 - Joshua John Wheeler
The informant was her daughter Emily Wheeler - 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond.
So far I have been lucky with everyone assisting and this led me on such a quest
So what I was trying to find out now was what happened t her parents?? I don't think I will find the answer to this but I got one step better.
Did they die?? They stayed in Ireland but why did she end up in a workhouse & what happened??
How did she end up on the Earl Grey scheme??
Maybe I have learnt all I could but it has been fantastic to learn what I have so far.
Hoping I have put all details that you need
Thanks Michelle
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Yes, I had not missed reading replies #2 and #3, but it is actually not until reply #40, where you have provided much of the family history as per the 1909 cert image that there is a clear picture emerging.
Thanks
JM
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You have her father,s name , Patrick, from the birth cert.!
They may have died in the famine The Irish midlands suffered badly in the famine .
Various Malones in Barrack St Tullamorre and elsewhere on 1901 Ireland but no way of connecting them to yours.
Tullamore baptisms very hard to read on microfiche so it is a wonder you were able to get Anne' s actual baptism. Some baptiams/ marriages are totally illegible. I could not find it on 1829-36
I can find no other Malone baptisms within the years available so do not know whether any siblings were baptised there.
Why was Ann's surname Smith when she emigrated yet her baptismal name was Ann Malone?
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The marriage record, South Australia, May 24 1851, is the earliest evidence you have that your ancestor existed.
The arrival on the Inconstant, 1849, is a possibility, but not confirmed.
The marriage certificate, 1851, will identify denomination of church. Religious affiliation is important in researching ancestors in Ireland.
The marriage certificate, 1851, will names witnesses, who might be connected to the bride and groom.
You will see if Ann signs the record....is literate.
.....
and
......
I just don't think the marriage one would assist as SA state they only copy information as can't copy the actual certificate (disappointing)
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I continue to be concerned about the 1851 marriage. As others have already mentioned, that document would likely be significant as it could well provide you with clues about your lass. – Did she ‘sign’ or make her mark, who were the witnesses? - these people can often be family members and it is often a worthwhile exercise to research them … afterall your opening post mentions your lass may have had a sister who also migrated… could she have been a witness to Ann's marriage...
You should not be afraid of transcriptions, particularly when provided by those who have long standing experience at reading and writing in the long hand script used in the 1840s …. That script was still taught across much of Australia as recently as the 1960s… When I write in long hand, I still use it, so my weekly shopping list, my jottings on scribble pad re your quest, my workplace TO DO list, my home TO DO list … all in that script. The S.A. transcribers will have long experience and knowledge of transcribing the clergyman’s script on that document. Yes, in that era there was very little recorded on S.A. marriages … about the same scant amount as on English m.c.s http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html Yes, sometimes others will find my handwriting hard to read, or may well see spelling flaws etc, but I have also been involved in team work projects transcribing 19th century handwriting as volunteers. I assure you that there's nothing amateurish about the effort, and there are many many checks, re-checks made. Yes, mistakes can slip through, but far better for you to have experienced people providing you with a transcript than for an inexperienced person to try to help you read a clergyman's handwriting when you are not used to his style, flourishes, or his own typical mis-steps and they really really 'want' to read a word to suit their own research.
BUT
The 1851 marriage has been INDEXED as Ann MAHONY on various commercial websites and on several not for profit ones too, so if this were my direct ancestor I would simply add that transcript to my TO DO wish list, and give it a fairly high priority simply because she is a direct ancestor and I would then have a document that I could copy and swap with other family history buffs who may also be researching that same ancestor. Perhaps the transcript may note her age … https://www.familyhistorysa.org/colonists.html That link suggests Joshua WHEELER was aged 30 and Ann MAHONY was aged 21. Find My Past has uploaded various records from Genealogy SA. Perhaps there’s NO names recorded for either Joshua’s or Ann’s fathers…
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-database-search
If you use that database, and enter the district as Burra and remembering that the WHEELER = MAHONY marriage is 14/338 and then use one of the commercial websites index entries ….
Marriage ref 14/337 (so the one immediately prior to Ann’s) was on 19 May 1851, when Margaret COAKALY aged 18, married Nels WESTERGREN at Kooringa.
And
Marriage ref 14/339 (so one immediately after Ann’s) was on 24 May 1851, when Elise KIRSCHNER aged 16 married Franz VANSELOW aged 26 at Kooringa.
Marriage ref 14/340 is for a John EDWARDS, aged 24, and Catherine RIDGWAY aged 28, married at Kooringa, 29 May 1851.
I am not suggesting you order transcriptions of all of those m.c., but I am simply noting them as they show that there was a community of settlers at Kooringa, striving to start families and they may well have been neighbours or have known each other, perhaps attending each other's weddings in the absence of families who had not left their homelands.
JM
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Plus, some armchair research :)
Re the 1849 arrival to S.A. and looking for Ann plus a sister, surname likely to be MAHONE or MALONY or a range of variations.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/158928218 Adelaide Observer 3 Nov 1849
Among the passengers listed in that cutting as arriving Adelaide Saturday Oct 27 per the barque, Senator, of 619 tons, with Master as BURRELL, from London 14th July :
A MALONE. I note however, that the newspaper conventions of that time would suggest that person was an adult male.
INCONSTANT passenger list is incomplete but a transcript (seems to have been sorted into a strict alphabetical order by surname) is found here:
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/1849Inconstant.htm
I notice a Judith MAHON, I cannot see any of those on that list that could be your lass, so I wonder about how you are going to validate that part of your family history.
There is also a passenger list available online from Trove …
as per the newspaper, South Australian Register, 9 June 1849. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50246245 - and again NO mention of your lass, but again there’s a lass named Ann MALME … perhaps
and here
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/158927696 Adelaide Observer 9 June 1849
Also a brief summary of the Earl Grey’s Pauper Immigration Scheme
https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/PauperImmigrationScheme.htm
More about the scheme, as per Sydney Morning Herald 23 Jan 1849 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28646291
and in the Argus, 4 Sept 1849
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4768975
JM
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May I offer a possible reason for Ann’s surname to be MAHONY on her m.c. –I suggest it would be to allow her to put an experience of life in Adelaide behind her, I suggest it was how the clergyman chose to record it, afterall, it is my clear understanding that clergy have always exercised broad ways to protect their flocks …
It seems that some 16 of the girls were named in the Government Return of Prostitutes in the City of Adelaide : per Inconstant, Ref CO 13/70, Adelaide SA State Records Office November 1850. One of those 16 was Ann MALONE.
See Professor Mark Staniforth’s papers re The Inconstant Girls: the Migration Experience of nearly 200 Irish Orphan Girls and Young women Sent to Adelaide in 1849 Aboard the Barque Inconstant. – part of The Regenerative Spirit, from Lythrum Press, Adelaide. https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/3109429?lookfor=the%20regenerative%20spirit&offset=1&max=3
So here is my transcription from part of page 33 of the above book as per a pdf copy which I found when seeking out the exact source for the info about : ' These young Irish orphan girls from Newcastle 18, Mullingar 40, Tullamore 18, Mountmellick 22, Parsontown 30, Limerick 24, Tipperary 22, North Dublin 12 (Total 186)'.
Here:
‘What do we know about the Inconstant girls and their subsequent lives in the Australian colonies ….. Five of the girls have been traced through the Dublin workhouse registers …. Bridget Fay, Eliza Harrick, Mary Ann Newman, Mary Taafe and Rebecca Thomas. Seven …. To the Parsonstown (now Birr) Union workhouse in King’s County (now county Offaly) : Catherine Bracken, Catherine Carroll, Margaret Collins, Mary Dean, Anne Dolan, Mary Maher and Bridget Murray. Sixteen of the girls were named as prostitutes in an 1850 Government return… Margaret Bryan, Eliza Corrigan, Ann Curran, Essy Dale, Margaret Dehee, Mary Dorgan, Ann Fulham, Eliza Graham, Cath Macmahon, Mary Maher, Ann Malone, Eliz Marr, Isabella Martin, Theresa Nevens, Cath Reardon and Rosanna Ward. '
JM
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Her Vic BMD - Anne Wheeler Died 7th April 1909 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond
father & mother - not known Malone & Eliza Malone formerly Smith
Born Tullamore, Kings County Ireland -5 years south Australia and 59 years Victoria.
Married Burra Burra, Kooringa south Australia age 20 - Joshua John Wheeler
The informant was her daughter Emily Wheeler - 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond.
To which cemetery please.
Sue
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I would support Jm's thinking on Ann MALME, on the Inconstant being one in the same as your Ann MALONE. An error in the steps of transcribing from manifest to newspaper.
In the old writing, it would only take for Malone to be seen as Malme and the error is evident.
There are no records I can see of anyone called Ann MALME, but there are certainly news records relating Ann MALONE.
These accounts of an assault upon her give slightly varying details, all of which widen the picture.
Ann MALONE Irish orphan girl living in Horton Street Sept 1850
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/207119473
Ann MALONE an “unfortunate girl”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38436270
A shipmate of ....
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206986595
Quite possibly the scars from the assault were visible at the time of her marriage and, as JM suggests, the clergyman was compassionate in allowing a slight error in the spelling of her name.
Sue
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Hi Lola,
Thank you in regards to Malone in Barracks street and yes I agree would not have any idea how to connect.
A lovely person (earlier on in post told me of where to go for 1829 birth of Ann. It's right down the bottom on page 35.
I think it was Sparrett was wonderfully helpful in finding this.
I do appologise (somewhere I rectified this) Malone was her name (Her mother was Eliza Smith)
In Australia sometimes she used Smith (or the way Victorian BMD recorded - sometimes they did the mother of the mother).
I do agree hard to read and I certainly could not see anymore Malones?? Whether they died OR moved I have no idea and have no idea how to find this
Thanks Michelle
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No, it was not me.
Sue
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Her Vic BMD - Anne Wheeler Died 7th April 1909 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond
father & mother - not known Malone & Eliza Malone formerly Smith
Born Tullamore, Kings County Ireland -5 years south Australia and 59 years Victoria.
Married Burra Burra, Kooringa south Australia age 20 - Joshua John Wheeler
The informant was her daughter Emily Wheeler - 6 Gwynne Street, Richmond.
To which cemetery please.
Sue
Yes, I am interested in the answer to Sue's question. And may I please add one too.
:) :)
What details does that 1909 d.c. record for her children?
JM
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Hi Majm
Thank you again
So a question in regards to the SA records - When it said transcribed?? I thought that meant a typed out version of a record NOT the actual record??
I obviously have misunderstood this??
As I have read twice now if she had signed her signature??
So for my understanding (remembering I am still a newbie)
Does SA give you a copy OR type of a copy??
I do very much agree in regards to handwriting as I never try to decipher as I could have it wrong () A lot of Italian in family as well)
I did find the ships list as well as the TRove one and did see the name Malme
But they have a site
https://irishfaminememorial.org/
It has Ann Malone on there
First Name
Ann
Surname
Malone
Native Place
Not recorded
Age On Arrival
no record
Parents
Not recorded
Religion
Not recorded
Ship Name
Inconstant (Adelaide Jun 1849)
Details
not on shipping lists; alleged Adelaide prostitute CO 13/70 per Inconstant
Not a lot of information except to say she was on ship
and I read a newspiece a couple of hours ago and prostitution in suggested in the clipping on Trove.
I agree with your theory whole heartedly that this is why Malony has come up as a protection to her as a person - Maybe why they even left South Australia??
Good reason I would think and yes there would have be scars from the attack.
I would be very interested in reading
See Professor Mark Staniforth’s papers re The Inconstant Girls: the Migration Experience of nearly 200 Irish Orphan Girls and Young women Sent to Adelaide in 1849 Aboard the Barque Inconstant. – part of The Regenerative Spirit, from Lythrum Press, Adelaide.
DO I become a member of the library to read this?? or can I buy it somewhere please?
Thank you again for all you research as I have noted everything down to build on
Thank you Michelle
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Please look-
What cemetery on the Death Certificate for Ann WHEELER
Sue
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Hi,
I am assuming you are located in Australia and that your local government authority provides your community with a public library. Today's public libraries will have librarians who can help you with interlibrary loans from the National Library of Australia and those same librarians will be delighted to showcase their own library facilities including organising online access to their electronic resources. Additionally you can also join the National Library directly, and receive a readers card for online access to many features.
As with any type of research, whether something as simple as checking the price of a new pair of shoes at different stores or as complex as determining if your Ann had a sister who migrated to Australia you need to know the source of the info you are collecting.
Some family history researchers strive to find records made by or about their particular person/s (Or events) that can be independently validated . Some don't bother with that in depth effort as it may be too expensive upon their time or pocket. But they may at least rely on indexes prepared by volunteer groups who have examined original records. And some folk dont even bother with that effort and just google away and copy n paste anything that seems to be the easiest/most popular at that moment.
So, back to the 1851 marriage, yes it will be a typed document, and yes it will have been prepared by a person who has been experienced in transcribing that long hand writing, perhaps concentrating on transcribing that clergyman's Church registers. And yes, it will have very little 'new' information to add But hopefully it will have the names of the witnesses, and also record if Ann 'made her x Mark' .. BUT it is of course up to you to consider your own current circumstances and to set your own budget for spends on your own family history. The hunt for 'original' primary sources has costs in both time and financially. Sometimes secondary sources e.g. transcriptions are more than adequate and better still some transcription services are well recognised by the leading family history groups.
NSW bdm actually has appointed several offical transcription services to offer (for a fee) to transcribe the historic NSW bdm records.
Any online database is basically an index. So in family history you need to check what is the principle behind that database - are there qualified people who validate the info being provided or do they accept any submissions without verifying anything.
Hope this is useful. Typed one finger on new e reader.
JM.
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Please concentrate on Sue's excellent question.
JM
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Hi Sparrett,
I do appologise if I ever miss a post I try to make sure I have seen each and every one
So the cemetery is Boroondarra buried 8th of April 1909.
I have only had time now that I know whare she is buried and yes the record is online.
So another step thanks to everyones help that I have found.
Thank you for the links with Trove as well ( I am not good at Trove but I have now trawled through pages looking for these articles and more
I like to print and keep them so thanks for putting me on a roll there as well.
Thanks Michelle
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Hi Majm
The cemetery for burial is Boroondarra 8 April 1909, which I have just checked as yes Ann is there another little mystery solved thanks to all that have been helping.
Yes I am in Wagga nsw (Originally from Melbourne) I will go into the local library here and ask about an interlibrary loan.
Although after you mentioned this book by the man I set about trying to find it online by sheer luck I must have put in correct search and 2 hours later I found it. So printing it off this morning.
So 3 weeks ago a lady contacted me through site FamilySearch.org as she record I had put up in regards to Mary Wheeler (one of Ann children) married to Giacomo Bombardieri and wanted to know of this lady as she had no idea this person existed.
I explained who she was and she added her to her family
This lady is the one who stated there may have been a sister (she is a niece of the family - down another line BUT I have never found or seen any evidence of this - so I don't think it is possible (I could be wrong).
I personally like the indepth and it has worked before with other brick walls.
I feel that if you are going to do something. Do it properly.
Everything I read is useful and helpful and again a huge thanks for everything I read that it is written. I am actually going to print all this off as I never expected so much assistance from lovely people. Wonderful.
So to the children on death cert. Here they are
Annie - 55
Emily - 47
Mary - 45
John - 43
Elizabeth - 40
William 37
Thanks Michelle
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A burial in the Church of England section of Boroondara with her daughter Emily.
Joshua John WHEELER (WHEELERBREED at baptism) was given a Church of England baptism as you have mentioned, so if Ann had been Roman Catholic in her young days, she was not later.
Some discrepancies in the birth year for Emily.
Sue
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Hi Sparett
yes I jumped on their website to have a look at this.
Was very pleased to find it
Yes slight variation of birthdate of Emily
I have her born Circa (at a guess) 1857.
As no records of birth - but I spose not unusual for then
I just checked the Pioneer Index as well but no Emily on there for a birth record either.
I have made a request for a photo of headstone on Billiongraves & Findagrave but don't know if anyone will do it.
Thank you again Michelle