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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: ALAMO2008 on Tuesday 24 March 20 20:53 GMT (UK)

Title: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Tuesday 24 March 20 20:53 GMT (UK)
Am trying to Trace the Life Profile of Pte 52804 - 2434 Harry Abrahams of 17th Kings Liverpool Regt of Broughton Manchester  Killed in Action12/10/1916  and on the Thiepval Memorial his Effects given in 1917 I think together Loius
But the Parents I found were Mark  Abrahams and Sarah Goldman,  Mark the Father died early 1916 before Son but he did have a Brother Lewis.
I think I may have the wrong Family therefore as this Harry is at 80 Waterloo Rd with Lewis in 1939 and appears to have died of old age in 1986 in Manchester.
Any ideas when 52804 Born and his Parents ?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 24 March 20 21:05 GMT (UK)
Do you have some additional documentation - where does the info come from that he was from Broughton and where did 2434 come from?

Entry on www.cwgc.org plus MRI only show 52804

No theatre of war shown on his MRI and no annotation re KIA - awarded the British & Victory medals

Soldiers effects shows Fa (presumably his father) as Louis.  No mention of Broughton etc
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 24 March 20 21:23 GMT (UK)
Could he be the Harold Abrahams aged 15 living in Southport in 1911 but b Manchester?
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Tuesday 24 March 20 21:30 GMT (UK)
Possible
My First thought was Southport .

Am trying to Research this to add to the Roll of Honour on his entry on www.liverpoolpals.com site.

Have found a Soldiers Effects Record but File too large for Roots

Can I email it to you ?
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 24 March 20 22:16 GMT (UK)
I probably have the same record on Ancestry.  Is Record 371406 shown against the entry?  £3 18s 4d due plus a £9 war gratuity both paid to father Louis

If it's something different I'll pm you my email address
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Tuesday 24 March 20 22:38 GMT (UK)
That's the One CaroleW
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 24 March 20 23:03 GMT (UK)
Where did Broughton come from?

In 1901 Louis is Lewis but Harry is still shown as Harold and his birth was registered as Harold.  His parents married 1892 as Lewis Abrahams and Sarah Rebecca Simon.  Sarah died 1930 Salford but I can't find a death for Louis/Lewis that I can relate to the Lancashire area see below

I don't know much about the rules of enlistment but was there a requirement to register under your full christian name and not an abbreviation?  It would have been helpful if the entry on the soldiers effects had given an address for Louis/Lewis

Harold's brother Alfred is living in Salford in 1939
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 24 March 20 23:18 GMT (UK)
I have just found a probate entry for Sarah Abrahams died 1930.  Probate to Louis Levi Abrahams.  Address was Broughton Park Salford

Louis Abrahams died St Andrews Hospital London 1938 - Administration Manchester to Alfred Abrahams cotton merchant (see 1939 entry for Alfred)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

No trace of Harold after 1911.  Just found a tree on Ancestry showing the same parents I found but unknown year of death so have sent a message to the tree owner with a link to this thread
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Wednesday 25 March 20 09:39 GMT (UK)
The Pals site had this is their Roll of Honour as my Starting Point not sure how they got it or photo but it's all they have on him.

https://www.liverpoolpals.com/soldier/?i=4/52804-Pte-harry-abrahams

Thanks CaroleW for your input.
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Wednesday 25 March 20 12:15 GMT (UK)
Ancestry found his Military Death of Soldiers killed in the Great War and listed Broughton Manchester as Place of Birth and Southport as place of Enlistment. and Graham Maddocks book Liverpool Pals on page 227 lists his Death and Place of Birth as Broughton, Manchester
Bingo !
With your help I am happy we now have the right Harold/Harry Abrahams son of Levi Louis Abrahams and Sarah Rebecca Simon's married Leeds Dec 1890
they had Beatrice Dec 1893 Harold Jun 1896 and Alfred Jun 1902
Found the  on 1901 Census at 43 Broughton Tce, Prestwich, Manchester
 and then on 1911 Census 19 Chambres Rd Southport.
His Birth as Manchester and Mother's in Leeds.
Trade Directory in 1905 lists a Louis Abrahams at 26 Sussex Road Southport
Military records as you saw sent Soldiers effects in 1917 to Father Louis Abrahams who I think died in 1938

Would like to find Harry's Attestation if possible and his Medal Card.
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 25 March 20 12:21 GMT (UK)
His medal card is on Ancestry but looks like his service record was destroyed in the WW2 blitz.  No theatre of war shown on his MRI and no annotation re KIA.  He was just awarded the British & Victory medals
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Tuesday 31 March 20 13:00 BST (UK)
CaroleW  with your help this is what we helped achieve on the Liverpoolpals Roll of Honour website
 that had no Family Background for him, same as the CWGC site.

Now he and his Faimly are remembered.

https://www.liverpoolpals.com/soldier/?i=4/52804-Pte-harry-abrahams
Title: Re: Help Please Liverpool Pals Regt
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 31 March 20 16:23 BST (UK)
That is wonderful - and very moving.  Thank you so much for posting the link.  These men should never be forgotten