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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: stevej60 on Sunday 05 April 20 19:03 BST (UK)
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Hi folk's I wondered if once again the you could help.James Smith born Buckinghamshire c1827
is living in Alnwick in the 91 census army pensioner with wife Hannah and sons William and George.
We think he may be the brother of my GTx2 grandfather John Ford Smith b.1825 Bucks who lived
in Gateshead/Newcastle 1851-1903.My brother has found James I think in the 1851 census as a soldier hence what we believe is the connection,as I'm restricted to Familysearch I cannot find any
other information however I input birthplace and dates on marriage,births census etc any help would be appreciated.Regards Steve.
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Steve -- there is certainly an Army record for a James Smith b Aylesbury, Bucks c 1829 - occupation Butcher.
When he left the Army in 1878 (not sure about that date - maybe I am misunderstanding the record) - his intended address was Newcastle on Tyne. So that looks hopeful for him going on to Alnwick.
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Looks like he joined up on 17 Oct 1846 aged 17 and 3 months - actual birth place looks like Weston Turvill? near Aylesbury.
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Looks like he joined up on 17 Oct 1846 aged 17 and 3 months - actual birth place looks like Weston Turvill? near Aylesbury.
Which is the pob on 1891. Lists him as army pensioner 3rd battalion Northd Fusiliers
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1881 - Alnwick
James Smith 50
Charlotte Smith 42
William Smith 10
George V. Smith 3
RG11; 5123; 68; 1;
Despite the change of name I think this is the same wife - 1881 & 91 have her po as Bungay in Suffolk
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Just found him in 1871 in Alnwick with a birth place shown as Weston Turville.
This census describes him as a Pensioner - Sergeant. The Army Record confirms that the James Smith b Weston Turvill was indeed a Sergeant.
I realise you want to connect him to John Smith -- but at least we now know that James was born c 1829 - apparantly in Weston Turvill, near Aylesbury -- may help with finding his baptism and that of John.
If you find the marriage of James to his wife Charlotte (his wife in 1871 in Alnwick) -- it will give you his father's name.
I haven't checked for that yet.
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SMITH, WILLIAM
mmn FRYER
Q1 1871 ALNWICK Volume 10B Page 351
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1901 wife is Charlotte again - presumably 1891 is an error
1861 Charlotte fryer b Bungay is a servant in Battle, Sussex
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Possible marriage?
Q1 1868 Canterbury Vol 2a p767
CROW Lucy
Folwell John Edwin S
Fryer Charlotte <<<
Smith James <<<
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There is a baptism for a James Smith 1829 - in Weston Turville - parents John and Sarah. Occupation Bailiff.
A John and Sarah also have a son John batised in 1824 - but in Halton, Buckinghamshire - occupation Steward to?
There are other children also.
To me those occupations look as though they may be the same John, working for a Land Owner or similar.
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Looks like the marriage may be on FindMyPast (I don't have a sub) Possibly listed as 1865 not 1868
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Hello Pennines and Mabel many thanks for the quick responses here's the original post on my Gt Grandfather,as you will see the Family is indeed the one mentioned in Pennines post,their father was
a bailif to the famous Dashwood family,I'd like to follow up James sons William and George as they
would be my Grandfather's cousins.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789090.msg6447249#msg6447249
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Another find due to your information,George V's middle name was Vincent which was my Grandfathers
middle name, his father John Smith's third son born in Gateshead 1865 was named Vincent he died
only a year or two later.
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Steve - thanks for responding. That's useful information you have provided,
I haven't done anything else on your query yet -- except to discover that Sarah, John the father's wife, MAY have been a widow when she married John - don't know for sure yet though, as I have left it to resume, hopefully, later tomorrow. It may not be the correct marriage and I am not familiar with Buckinghamshire - so don't know which townships are nearby!
I need to be more awake before picking it up again!!
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Many thank's Pennines,John the son b.1825 has his birthplace as Wendover and Worlds end
on various Census in 1841 he is in lodging's in Newcastle as a tailor's apprentice,he was a draper
for the rest of his life.
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Steve -- I have now looked at the link you provided for this family and see that you did have a lot of the information already.
I hadn't realised that initially, so we both have told you a lot of what you already knew.
John junior though, was born in 1824 in Halton and not 1825 -- and was baptised at Halton.
Sarah Ann Smith child of John senior and Sarah was also baptised at Halton in 1823 (she was buried there it seems on 1st August 1824 aged 18 months. (Another Sarah Ann was born on 28 Sep 1826 at Weston Turville - - buried 14 March 1838 at Weston Turville.
However I think you know all that already - and I am just correcting the actual birth year you are showing for John junior.
So James and his wife, Charlotte Fryer married Q/E March 1868 in Canterbury (Kent) Registration District. (They must have met whilst he was in the Army).
The couple had 3 children -- mother's maiden name Fryer in all cases - AND all born in Alnwick Registration District.
William born Q/E March 1871
John born Q/E Dec 1874 --- probably died Q/E June 1876 Alnwick Reg Dist - aged 1
George Vincent born Q/E June 1877
If you are now wanting to follow William and George Vincent -- they should be on all the census records from 1881 on both Ancestry - which your brother has access to - or the census records on Family Search.
In addition you should be able to find any marriage - and any children born to them. Just in case you don't know - once you know a wife's maiden name from a marriage record - you can find births of children to that couple, by using just the father's surname - the mother's maiden name - and searching for 5 years at a time - male and female separately -- on the GRO Index. (GRO is General Register Office).
It's a free site, but you need to register first;
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
then go to; Search the GRO on line index.
In case you don't know George Vincent Smith is included on the Probate Register on Ancestry -- this states he died 4 January 1964 with effects of £2,349.00 with probate granted to Thomas Henry Defty Horne, Bank Manager.
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Many thanks for all the information pennines much appreciated.
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Another child
SMITH, JAMES
mmn FRYER
Q1 1869 ALNWICK Volume 10B Page 338
Possible death
SMITH, JAMES
Age 1
Q3 1870 ALNWICK Volume 10B Page 217
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Good find Mabel --- I missed that one. (I'll put myself in the corner!)
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Great find Mabel.George was in Alnwick in the 1911 census with his widowed Mother aged 33
occupation compositor.William is in the 91 census also a printer/compositor so out of three
William Smith's born Alnwick 1871/2 in the 1911 census I'm leaning towards the one living in
Heaton occupation Lyer operator newspaper,he has a son named James.
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Hi folk's,just an update on this thread.we've heard from James Gtx2 Grandaughter over the weekend
and she's a resident of Gateshead,he was a member of the N.F. in his career spent time in
hospital after being kicked by a horse fracturing his skull poor soul,died in 1903 there is acording to ancestry an obituary for 13th July.Amazing these two brothers families still have a presence here in
the North East.