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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: goldie61 on Wednesday 13 May 20 23:12 BST (UK)
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Looking at the ‘Carriage and Horse’ Tax for 1787 on Scotlandsplaces, there is a William Baird in Liberton, who is a ‘Tower’. He has just 1 horse. Any ideas of what this might be?
I thought it might tie in somehow with a Thomas Baird who I know was a carrier in Liberton, but was deceased before the date of the Taxes.
Thanks very much
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Somebody who used his horse to tow goods/items - a tower
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On the canal, perhaps
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Could I offer an alternative explanation.
All of the tax rolls that I've looked at usually give the place of abode, rather than the occupation. Also they are listed in parish order.
Have you thought of it being Liberton Tower:
http://www.castlesuncovered.com/scotland/libertontower.html
Gadget
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Location
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74426705#zoom=7&lat=6517&lon=11637&layers=BT
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Thank you everyone for your replies.
At first I thought oh good, that could make him possibly related to the Carrier - great!
But your comments are most intriguing Gadget.
I have looked at again at the all the different taxes I have from Scotlandspeople, and you could well be right. They very nearly always give the place of residence rather than the occupation.
On the page of the clip you posted there are several instances where 'Fa' is written after the person's name. I thought this may have been an abbreviation for 'farmer', but that seems unlikely now. Any ideas?
Liberton tower looks fabulous - now!
I see the information about it says it ceased being domestic accommodation in the 1600s, and was used as a cow store etc. I wonder if the entry in the taxes meant he lived in the AREA of the tower, rather than actually in the tower itself?
Interesting stuff! :)
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Nice work Gadget! ;D
Skoosh.
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Looking at the ‘Carriage and Horse’ Tax for 1787 on Scotlandsplaces, there is a William Baird in Liberton, who is a ‘Tower’. He has just 1 horse. Any ideas of what this might be?
I thought it might tie in somehow with a Thomas Baird who I know was a carrier in Liberton, but was deceased before the date of the Taxes.
Thanks very much
Hello
Your person of interest Thomas Baird, a Carrier was deceased before 1787, but you never gave a place area/region for him, only Liberton?
In the image (if one), of the record you found your Thomas Baird (deceased) in, what was his actual area/region you found the record under?
Because, there are two Libberton & Liberton places and both places can be spelt with either 1 or 2 letter b.
See "Introduction" here
https://www.ancestor.abel.co.uk/Liberton.html
Mark
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Mis-read a prevous post.
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Goldie~
Fa might be short for Fairmilehead, also on my map link
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74426705#zoom=7&lat=4569&lon=8572&layers=BT
but it might be worth you going over the map to see if there are any other possible settlements.
Gadget
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Your person of interest Thomas Baird, a Carrier was deceased before 1787, but you never gave a place area/region for him, only Liberton?
Liberton is the place; it is a parish in the county of Midlothian, and now part of the City of Edinburgh. See https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Edinburgh/Liberton
Because, there are two Libberton & Liberton places and both places can be spelt with either 1 or 2 letter b
Perfectly correct. But the other other is in the county of Lanark and the record Goldie found was in Midlothian.
Liberton Tower https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=114523833
Fairmilehead is on the western boundary of the parish of Liberton, where it adjoins the parish of Colinton. See https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400125 - you may need to enlarge it.
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Goldie
I've looked through a few of the Tax Rolls for Liberton and, as I said, most descriptives are of the place of residence.
I assume that you are referring to the entries that are listed as Far, as in this clip.
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@Goldie/Gadget, a list of names in the kirkyard etc',
https://libertonkirk.net/history
Skoosh.
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Thanks, Skoosh. Lots of info in your link :)
Fairmilehead is on the western boundary of the parish of Liberton, where it adjoins the parish of Colinton. See https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400125 - you may need to enlarge it.
Already given in my previous post, so no nead to enlarge:
Goldie~
Fa might be short for Fairmilehead, also on my map link
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74426705#zoom=7&lat=4569&lon=8572&layers=BT
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Already given in my previous post, so no nead to enlarge
Different map, showing the parish boundaries.
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Looking at the ‘Carriage and Horse’ Tax for 1787 on Scotlandsplaces, there is a William Baird in Liberton, who is a ‘Tower’. He has just 1 horse. Any ideas of what this might be?
I thought it might tie in somehow with a Thomas Baird who I know was a carrier in Liberton, but was deceased before the date of the Taxes.
Thanks very much
Hello All
Gadget, I enjoyed seeing the snippet about the tower you posted and there was obviously a William there with the Baird surname.
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However, the original poster does not say which Liberton place Thomas Baird, the Carrier, deceased, was associated with?
Mark
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It's in a different thread, in the Midlothian forum
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=513452.0
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It's in a different thread, in the Midlothian forum
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=513452.0
Thanks.
Regarding a 'Carrier' usually a Man with a Cart and Horse sometimes delivering locally and taking post and parcels from a village or village Pub or Inn to the Posting House / Inn in a main town nearby.
I have also come across one "Carrier" who was a Trading Merchant / Importer (rare).
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There is an older/earlier reference to Baird being a Landowner of Libberton on page 23 (Index for page 23 spells it Liberton).
https://deriv.nls.uk/dcn23/9536/95361714.23.pdf
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Did Thomas Baird, Carrier, Deceased or a possible unknown spouse, leave a Will or Admin., or mentioned in the Will of someone else?
Of course Thomas Baird may be just someone with the same surname?
Mark
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Mark, you've lost me now. This was a thread about William Baird of Liberton Tower. I think you are referring to the other thread, as Forfarian says.
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Hello Gadget,
I was referred to the other thread and made some general comments about a Carrier.
The book link made an old/earlier reference to a place called Libberton (Liberton in the Index) being purchased by a Baird (and therefore be of no more interest than that).
However, if no Registers survive or lack detail, there might sometimes be information about properties of Tenants (Rentals) or very occasionally property sold to Tenants in main Landowner's Collection (in an Archive), depending on its survival.
From what I can gather the poster was also trying to link William Baird of the Tower to a Thomas Baird the Carrier of Liberton.
Mark
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Goldie~
Fa might be short for Fairmilehead, also on my map link
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74426705#zoom=7&lat=4569&lon=8572&layers=BT
but it might be worth you going over the map to see if there are any other possible settlements.
Gadget
Thanks for that Gadget
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@Goldie/Gadget, a list of names in the kirkyard etc',
https://libertonkirk.net/history
Skoosh.
Thanks for the link Skoosh.
The list of names in the churchyard is tantalising! It just gives surnames. There are a few for Baird, but doesn't give and first names or dates. Something to follow up.
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A general thank you to everybody who has taken the time to reply to this query.
I have been unable to find any baptisms etc for my Thomas Baird.
The only record I have for him is that he was the father of Ann Baird who married John Suttie in 1781 in Edinburgh. He is started as being already deceased at that date. John Suttie and Ann only seem to have one child - a George Suttie in 1782, so no family names to look for (John's father was called George). It's possible Anne died some time after this birth.
The phrase 'needle in a haystack' comes to mind! :)
A dead end for more years than I like to think about.
I like the idea he may have lived at Liberton Tower though!
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From memory, Fairmilehead got a mention in R.L.Stevenson's "Edinburgh!" so checked it out. In the last chapter, "The Pentland Hills," the toll-house at Fairmilehead stands at the meeting of four roads, a very lonely spot. Strangely enough he also recalls from memory the "Carriers!" who at the New Year were kept busy delivering big rounds of fancy shortbread to folk in the Borders from their youngsters working in Edinburgh! ;D
Skoosh.
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Thanks for that Skoosh.
It all adds colour to their lives instead of just a list of names. :)
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Shortbread inset with mottoes of candied peel, "A Guid New Year!" etc', noo we have Greggs! ;D
Skoosh.
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Shortbread inset with mottoes of candied peel, "A Guid New Year!" etc',
Skoosh.
Now that sounds very yummy! :)