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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: mckha489 on Wednesday 27 May 20 11:19 BST (UK)

Title: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 27 May 20 11:19 BST (UK)
Marriage Harriet STANTON to Thomas SIMMILL 1814, Stafford St Mary.
(Simmill has lots of variant spellings)

Can anyone see this couple subsequently OTHER than the Thomas & Harriet couple baptising many children at Gnosall, St Lawrence from 1815.

OR the other way round.
Can anyone see another Thomas SIMMILL & Harriet marriage that could be the parents baptising children at Gnosall

I’m just not 100% happy

marriage in Stafford says both of this parish

censuses - Harriet says born Gnossal, (yr of birth ranging from 1791-1795) yet the Harriet Stanton is likely to be a 1798 birth & baptism at St Mary’s Stafford daughter of William & Mary.  Not once does she say Stafford.

Thomas is an Ag Lab/Farm labourer, why would he be in Stafford?

There is a Harriott Smith baptised at Gnossal 1791 who would fit, although I see no marriage. However I can’t rule out the 1814 marriage because I cannot see them elsewhere.

Thank you
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: joeparkerUK on Friday 26 June 20 11:08 BST (UK)
Hi - commenting only on Stafford for now however it is reasonable that an Agricultural Farm Labour could be in Stafford - there are several agriculatural areas even between Gnosall and Stafford (Bradley, Levedale, Derrington etc) so this would seem reasonable.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Tuesday 28 July 20 08:56 BST (UK)
In support of the marriage of Thomas Simmill and Harriet Stanton. The marriage on 28 Oct 1814 of Thomas & Harriet is witnessed by John Child. A John Child was an executer of her father's will (1800)
The last will and testament of William Stanton of the borough of Stafford in the county of Stafford, Labourer. First I give and bequeath to my wife Mary Stanton my house and garden and all its apurtences lying and being situated in the Foregate for the Borough of Stafford in the county of Stafford and also that small parcel of land commonly called a but lying and being situated in the Foregate field in the said county with all my household goods endureing (sic) her natural life and after her dece(a)se to go to my son William Stanton and my daughter Harriote Stanton to be equealy (sic) devied (divided) betwixt them and if either one should die the surviver (survivor) shall take it all and the said Mary Stanton my wife shall not sell nor mortgage the same except the but in the Forgate field the household goods shall be equealy devioded (equally divided) betwixt my son and daughter above mentioned. I do hereby nominate constitute and appoint John Wright of Hopton and John Child of Great Haywood to be my executors in witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this twenty fifth day of December one thousand eight hundred.

Signed sealed published pronounced and declared by the said William Stanton as his last will and testament in the prescence of we the subscribers.



Richard Phillips

Ann Hodgkins

Benjamin Mill
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 July 20 09:03 BST (UK)
That is Very interesting Zen Rabbit.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 28 July 20 12:03 BST (UK)
Is there possibly another Will for Mary ?

FreeREG has a MARY Stanton burial 20 May 1804, Wife of William.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 July 20 13:05 BST (UK)
No, I don’t think there is a will for Mary.

It is uncommon to have “wife of” in a PR when the husband is already deceased isn’t it?
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Tuesday 28 July 20 15:45 BST (UK)
The burial is for Mary Stanton the wife of William Stanton (1762 - 1820) Parish record reads. Wife of William Stanton (nee Green)
 Recent investigations have lead me to believe that before his death in 1800 William (1767 - 1800) married a second time to Mary Brough, a girl some 13 years his junior (His first wife being Mary Barlow who died in 1793). John Wright was witness to the wedding and daughter Harriet was born in Sept of that year. It is hellishly confusing due to the high numbers of William and Mary's in the parish.
I have a tree constructed from parish records, wills, freeman record and apprentice records etc but it is too large to post here
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 July 20 20:54 BST (UK)
That is good to know Zen.  I have not looked at the Stantons much (at all really) because I was just so doubtful of that marriage, however that John Child connection does seem to add some weight.

I just do wish Harriet didn’t says she was born in Gnosall and also consistently suggest she is older than Harriet Stanton would be.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 29 July 20 09:39 BST (UK)
It is curious unless Harriet only had a vague idea of her birthdate. This however may be linked to the death of her father in 1800 when she was only two. Her half brother William (my 4th Grandfather) was apprenticed out to a Thomas Jackson shoemaker of Eccleshall but moved back to the foregate area of Stafford in later life. I do not know what happened to Harriets mother. Whether she died or re-married. If Harriet moved to Gnosall when young she may not have remembered Stafford.
I have included all Stanton records I have for the area.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 09:51 BST (UK)
Thank you  so much, that is very generous of you.

The marriage was 1814. She would have been only just 16 at the time which of course is a perfectly respectable age for a marriage, especially if you are an orphan.
I am aware age was not tracked in the way we track it now but I do find it difficult to believe she thought she was already over 20?  Unless they were conspiring to elevate it as Thomas Simmill was so much older - 25 years!

However there is, as far as I have been able to discover, no other marriage or death that fits Harriet STANTON.
If Harriet SMITH didn't appear to have vanished it would be helpful too! 


Modified - if she moved to Gnosall when young, why did they marry at St Mary's Stafford?

Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:03 BST (UK)
Another thread that might be a piece of the puzzle is a marriage for Mary Stanton and William Bailey at St Mary's on 2nd Sept 1802 (two years after the death of William Stanton). There is a William Bailey born Gnosall 23 Mar 1781. If this was harriet's mother then Harriet would have been four at the time of the marriage.
This is just a supposition though.
St Mary's was the main church for the area and people did marry in different places, either for convience (they worked there), a local priest wasn't availible, to avoid talk, they had not been resident in their parish long enough.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:28 BST (UK)
Just commenting. I’ve no idea what to make of it but,

The page (which seems to have missed indexing on FindMyPast) with the marriage of Mary Stanton to William Bailey also has the marriage of Mary Stanton to Solomon Chelton (as you have) the Jane Kenderdine witness for both does not seem to be a regular church witness.

Also, the entry following the Bailey marriage is for another Bailey.
Sarah to Richard Bott.

Thinking about Harriet again.  If Mary had the Foregate house, and wasn’t allowed to sell it, then it is unlikely, unless she was pushed out by a second husband, that Harriet would have left that house before she was say 10 , isn’t it?
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:35 BST (UK)
Mary Brough signed at marriage to Wm 1798
Mary Stanton marked marriage to William Bailey
Mary Stanton signed marriage to Solomon Chelton

There is a bit of similarity between the first and last I think.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:38 BST (UK)
That is a good point.
it is tricky when you only have a few scraps to work with
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:42 BST (UK)

it is tricky when you only have a few scraps to work with

Well I suppose it wouldn't be as much fun as it is if it was all straight forward. It is frustrating though!
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 10:55 BST (UK)
BTW did you decide the Wm Stanton Mary Brough Marriage was the same William because John Wright was the witness?
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 29 July 20 11:49 BST (UK)
It was one of the factors.
This is where it gets complex. William Stanton 1762-1800 who married Mary Brough (I think it quite likely looking at the signature that she did re-marry Solomon) was not a freeman of Stafford (due to his moving to Castlechurch outside the borough) although his father George Stanton was, His son William (jr) became a freeman by dint of servitude in 1837. All other Williams are named son of John, William etc so I can trace them back.
However William Stanton (1762-1820) who married Mary Green (it is interesting that the parish record for her death in 1804 actually says Mary Stanton nee Green) had a daughter Harriot (b. 1802) who married a John Talbot. They also had a son John Stanton who married Sarah Wright (in 1809), the daughter of John Wright (sometimes transcribed White) of Hopton. My 3rd Great grandfather John Stanton (who became chief warder for Stafford gaol) stayed with the Wright family for a while in 1840.
Both William (who married Mary Green) and William (who married Mary Brough) shared the same grandfather. Who was, yes another William Stanton (1703-1786) and the first of the line to become a freeman of Stafford in 1752
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: Zen rabbit on Wednesday 29 July 20 11:58 BST (UK)
I enclose the transcripts I made of all the Stafford Stanton Wills held at Stafford archives
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 29 July 20 12:02 BST (UK)
I think I understand that!

Added.
I am  very grateful for what you are sharing. 
It’s after 11pm here, I will sit and have a look through it all tomorrow and give it the attention it deserves. Thank you.
Title: Re: Thomas and Harriet Simmill
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 06 January 23 00:21 GMT (UK)
Zen Rabbit

Just to say, I have been looking again at this couple, and can see no alternatives so am going to go  with them.
Thank you again for all the information you generously provided.