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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 11:27 BST (UK)

Title: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 11:27 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm looking for any information on Jacob and Catherine Cohen (née Philips) both born 1773 and migrated to Swansea: Catherine 1773 – 17 February 1865, Jacob Cohen 1773 – March 1819. Jacob and Catherine are my third great-grandparents their son Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen is my twice great-grandfather.

Children of Jacob and Catherine Cohen

Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen (1810-1881), Dr Douglas Cohen (1806-1892) (unmarried), Esdaile Philip Cohen (1792-1856), Charlotte Cohen (1815-1885) (unnamed), Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889), Rosetta Cohen (1800-1879) married name Marks, Samuel Philip Cohen (1797-1858), Matilda Cohen (circa born 1805).

Catherine Cohen had a sister Abigail Moseley or Mosely also of Swansea, Abigail married Jacob A. Moseley a watch and clockmaker. She also had a brother Mordecai Phillips. Catherine's father was Solomon Moses Selig Phillips AKA Salomon Phillips AKA Moses Selig. Her mother was Vogeltje Moses. Her paternal grandparents were Jacob Selig and Esther Jacobs.

Any information would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 02 June 20 13:02 BST (UK)
You may already have these - references on the Welsh newspapers online
e.g. marriage of Harriet

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3327270/3327273/14/

and Jacob's will is on the NLW site

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pjc/

one of the witnesses is Jacob Mosely watchmaker
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 13:37 BST (UK)
Thanks very much, I've seen the marriage notice before but not Jacob's will, so again thank you.

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 June 20 16:09 BST (UK)
A very warm welcome to Rootschat

Welsh Journals   https://journals.library.wales
Click on link, pop "jacob cohen" (include the "   " as part of key) in Search - returns 1 hit. Click on title "Vol14. .... 1730-2006".

Then try "douglas cohen" et al. 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 16:16 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 June 20 16:33 BST (UK)
I've been checking out "Ann of Swansea", friend of Dr Douglas C - interesting lady.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 17:25 BST (UK)
Yes, I read James Henderson's thesis paper on her The Poems of Anne of Swansea, he cites Douglas Cohen and mentions Douglas' brother, my second great-grandfather, Reuben. That's how I traced my ancestry back to Wales and Jacob and Catherine Cohen.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 June 20 18:26 BST (UK)
I checked Swansea Archives catalogue. Mentions a Jacob and Matilda Cohen (D/D Z 2/1). In normal times I'd pop in and check them out but, sadly, these are not normal times.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 20:10 BST (UK)
Oh, cool, thank you.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:02 BST (UK)
A couple of mentions in this brief article:
https://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Community/swansea_articles/Swansea_first_century.htm
Also this which has some references for mentions in The Cambrian.

Also a few pages about Jewish community on the Swansea Archive site https://www.swansea.gov.uk/article/56831/Origins
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:12 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks Sam, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:18 BST (UK)
Ptobably buried at the Old Jewish cemetery  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Townhill+Jewish+Cemetry/@51.6308981,-3.9591547,1213m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!4m6!1m0!1m3!2m2!1d-3.9473193!2d51.6285514!3e0!3m4!1s0x486ef539de9aaaab:0xf278b4541a9e430c!8m2!3d51.6286513!4d-3.9472595

There are some graves transcribed and some photos, but Jacob Cohen not amongst them.

http://www.cemeteryscribes.com/showmap.php?cemeteryID=41
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:24 BST (UK)
see pages 34 onwards about Jewish community of Swansea - various people mentioned. https://archive.jpr.org.uk/download?id=2784
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:27 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Sam.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:47 BST (UK)
The sister Matilda was still alive 1881 census at 45 St Helen's Road age 78, a boarder with the Jones family.

ADDED
Charlotte's address re probate is 45 St Helen's Road where Matilda was living 1881??
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 21:50 BST (UK)
Thanks, was that 45 St Helen's Road Swansea?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 02 June 20 22:02 BST (UK)
Yes, sorry about that.
Do you have Charlotte's will gives death date of 30 June 1885, probate to Douglas Cohen one of the next of kin.
Probate 16 September 1885 in Carmarthen
Ref Index of Wills and probate.

If she names all her surviving relatives it might narrow down Matilda's death.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 22:10 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks very much.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 02 June 20 22:17 BST (UK)
Not sure if you have them on censuses or not

1851c Orange Street, Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
Catharine   Cohen   Head   Widow 1770   Proprietor Of Houses   London, Middlesex, England
Matilda   Cohen   Daughter   Unmarried   1805   Fundholder   Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Charlotte   Cohen   Daughter   Unmarried   1815   Fundholder   Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Keziah   Matthews   Servant   Unmarried   1832   Servant   Coychurch, Glamorgan, Wales

Catherine, Matilda & Charlotte Cohen at that address in 1841 and just  Catherine & Matilda Cohen there in 1861 with a servant , house no 17 Orange Street
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 02 June 20 22:23 BST (UK)
1871 Matilda is in Oystermouth Glamorganshire aged 66 with a servant.

1871 Charlotte age 50 has Douglas age 64 living with her at 20 Hanover Square Swansea.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 23:17 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks so much.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 03 June 20 15:33 BST (UK)
This paper gives an idea of why Jewish people settled in South Wales and you can search within the document for "swansea" or meybe actual names https://research.bangor.ac.uk/portal/files/20579001/null

In the Birmingham Journal 26 November 1836, p. 4 there is a notice of dissolved partnership for Reuben Zelig Cohen and Henry Philip Mosely, Neath, watchmakers.

The dissolution is also listed in Perry's Bankrupt Gazette 26 November 1836, p.8 but it also sattes that they were watchmakers and silversmiths, partnesrhip was dissolved oin Nov 18th at Neath and it staes "Debts by Cohen"

Not sure if this Charlotte Mozely is of the same family https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=9365 you can also click on her spuse's name to bring up his details

Samuel Philip Cohen seems to have been baptised as an adult, in the Parish Church (St Thomas Anglican) in Neath on Aug 18th 1823. Entry says he is an adult brought up in the Jewish religion, born July 29th 1797, son of Jacob and Catherine Cohen. His address at time was "Neath" and he was a Jeweller.

He married on the same day according to the Marriage reg for the church and there was a notice in the Cambrian newspaper
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3325485/3325488/9/cohen%20howell


The Cambrian 23rd Jun 1827, p2 top of col 3 (Heded - "To Capitalists")  Catherine Cohen advertises her Pawnbroking business for sale

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3326475/3326477/5/cohen%20howell
In a an Annual report published in The Cambrian 26 Feb 1820, p.3 (see 2nd column of list of subscribers): For year ending 1919, Jacob Cohen was listed as s subscriber to the Swansea Infirmary (subscribed £1 1s  0d) https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3324575/3324578/4/cohen%20howell

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3325095/3325098/8/cohen%20howell
The Cambrian 2nd March 1822, p.3 6th Paragraph (see under"Caution" - relates to Samuel Philip Cohen)

Rosetta Mark's marriage notice in The Cambrian 22 Jun 1822, p.3 https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3325175/3325178/10/cohen%20howell

There are also adverts showing Samuel P Cohen's Various buisnesses (selling lottery tickets amongst other things) Just look for his name in the listings, including these:

1821 https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3325000/3325003/11/cohen%20neath%20jews

1822 https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3325250/3325252/4/cohen%20neath%20jews

In 1826 he is an Auctioneer
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3326325/3326328/10/cohen%20neath%20jews


The Cambrian 3rd Apr 1827, p.3, col1, mentions Samuel P Cohen respectable tradesman attending baptism of Samuel Mosley https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3326375/3326378/7/cohen%20neath%20jews
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 03 June 20 15:38 BST (UK)
Cool, thank you very much Sam.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 03 June 20 21:59 BST (UK)
Haven't found anything on Jacob Cohen, but in this article looking at the history of the Jewish community in Swansea, it says two other continental immigrants - Mr Cohen and Mr Marks joined Mr Joseph.

https://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Community/swansea_articles/Press_Reports_Swansea_1804-1917.htm Gives links to lots of newspaper reports relating to Jewish people.

Lots of links to Swansea Jewish Community from these pages
https://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Wales.htm
https://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Community/swansea.htm#cemetery

https://jhasw2018.wixsite.com/news JEWISH HISTORY ASSOCIATION OF SOUTH WALES
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 03 June 20 22:02 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Sam. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 04 June 20 15:03 BST (UK)
Hello Leonard,

I have been watching as the facts unfold. Quite a family.

I have been focusing on Catherine, her siblings and her parents.

She also had two brothers, Abraham and Joseph. Both were named in the wills of Solomon Phillips (1816) and that of his son Mordecai (1847).

The 1816 will, as you may know, was translated from "the Hebrew written in the German Jewish Character". That statement may actually have meant that the will was in German, but written in Hebrew characters. I have examples of such texts from my own family.

Solomon Phillips was the hazan or cantor of London's Hambro Synagogue. In English language records, he is referred to as Solomon Phillips. However, his full Hebrew name was:

Mosheh Reuven also known as Zelig son of Shmuel, the Levite

Zelig was authorised by Rabbinical courts as an alias (kinui) for Reuven.

The Hambro burial register records his burial on 15th April 1816 (https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=31300)

You'll see that his father is named as "Samuel HHR". I suspect that there is slight transcription error, and the text should be read from right to left. HRR is a common Hebrew acronym for ha-rav ravi, which denotes that the man was a recognised rabbi.

Corrected the acronyms above

I have not found any record of his wife's name, but she was not named in the will, so she must have died before him.

Your Reuben Zaleg Felipe was clearly named after his grandfather, so I would be very surprised if he was born before the latter's death in 1816.

Amongst British Jews, the surname Phillips was often taken from the Hebrew given name Feis, which is itself a kinui for the names Uri and Uri-Shraga.

I haven't been able to make any headway with Jacob Cohen. And as I'm sure you know, researching Cohens (and Levys - my own surname) is never easy - the Smiths of the Jewish world.

Take care, Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 04 June 20 16:27 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

Wow, that's in incredible, thank you so very much. I've checked out the link and googled Hazan, just watched a video that showed what a Hazan does. Do you think Reuben Zaleg Felipe Cohen's (1810-1881) date of birth may be wrong? I have him aged 21 boarding the Achilles from Bristol, England to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on the 18th of July 1831. The ships manifest gives his age as 21 and occupation as a gentleman.

My understating is the Jews that migrated to Swansea were most probably German, or what was Germany in the 1700s is that your thinking? Also, Reuben's sister Harriet Cohen married David I Cohen of Maryland, Baltimore the wealthy banking and investment family on the 7th of July 1830 in Swansea. I've got a hunch they may have been related given the distance between Swansea and Baltimore and the surname, I know the Baltimore Cohens came from the Rhine in Germany. Do you have any insights on this, the possibility of a cousinship between Harriet and David? I'm using FamilySearch.org to collate data I'll add Catherine's siblings and her paternal grandfather. Once again thank you very much.

Leonard

   
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 04 June 20 16:50 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

A while ago I found some info on geni.com it says Solomon Philips father was Jacob Selig, either an error or Samuel HRR and Jacob Selig are the same person, and his mother was Esther Jacobs.

Thanks again

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Friday 05 June 20 10:38 BST (UK)
Hello Leonard,

You're very welcome.

I can't find the record on geni that you're referring to. But bear in mind that Solomon Phillips is not a unique name. Moreover, you cannot rely on an online family tree that does not provide primary documentary evidence.

You have a primary record - the burial register - that shows that his father was called Shmuel (Samuel). You need to identify all the sons and daughters of Catherine's brothers and sister to find the common names.

My own Jewish ancestors came over from northern Germany in the 1870s, so I haven't had a need to extensively research British Jewry prior to that. From what little I have read, I understand many of the early Jewish settlers were from Germany and the Netherlands. Certainly the main Ashkenazi synagogues in London were founded by Jews from Germany. The Phillips family was most likely of German origin as indicated by Solomon's will in "German Jewish characters". I shall another careful look at the will for further clues. Have you read though it?

Your Reuben may not have been 21 when he left Bristol, but he certainly wasn't 5 years old. In which case, his Hebrew name must have been different from that of his grandfather.

I'd say there is a high likelihood of David Cohen being related to Jacob. Did you also know that Mordecai's daughter Henrietta married Moses (son of Abraham) Cohen in the Hambro synagogue in 1823?

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 05 June 20 11:06 BST (UK)
Yes, I did have a look at Jacob Cohen's will but I struggled with the Spencerian script so I have no idea what it says. Yes, you're absolutely right I've found many errors on sites such as geni and familysearch. I'm working with my cousin and we look for legal documents to verify when available, we're building this picture overtime. We've located Reuben's will and a letter he wrote to the British government lobbying for assistance with a land claim in Cuba against the Spanish government. We haven't been able to get hold of these documents yet due to the pandemic.

Thanks, for the additional information. 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 05 June 20 11:10 BST (UK)
Sorry, you meant Solomon's will.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 05 June 20 11:13 BST (UK)
Did you also know that Mordecai's daughter Henrietta married Moses (son of Abraham) Cohen in the Hambro synagogue in 1823?

No, I didn't. I did read up on the Hambro synagogue and the schism that created it.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 05 June 20 11:34 BST (UK)
I haven't seen a will I've seen this The Hambro burial register records his burial on 15th April 1816 (https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=31300)

Is there another link I haven't seen?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Friday 05 June 20 12:00 BST (UK)
I've only come across info related to Jewish families in response to your post and recent information I saw last year about the need to archive information relating to Jewish communities in South Wales. I'm afraid I know nothing about Hebrew or Jewish customs, so please excuse my ignorance on these matters.

I've seen Jewish graves in a couple of local Jewish cemeteries, but not been able to read the hebrew inscriptions. I wondered what information might there be written on gravestones and if Jacob and Catherine's graves had readable headstones, would they give any clues as to their ancestrors or places of birth?

In terms of naming chidren, are there patterns and customs ? Would the first son be named after a particular grandparent for example (paternal  or maternal?) and would they repeat names in generations?.

I wondered about the name Douglas (doesn't sound it comes from Hebrew) and the name Vogeltje is Dutch ?

You probably already have this info, but I did come across a newspaper article (Philadelphia Jewish Exponent 04 July 1890, p.5). In it, it mentions Jacob I cohen who was one of teh early members of the Beth Shalom in Richmond, who came Rhenish Prussia in 1773. Settled first in Lancaster (well known Jewish Community) then removing to Charleston then settled in Richmond before the Surrender of Cornwallis. It says he was a volunteer in the defence of his new adopted land and honourably discharged. This was written in a hebrew diary owned by his decendents. After the war his brother Israel J Cohen joined him, returned to England later for a wife and in 1787, returned with her to Richmond. The article has lots of info on the wider family and their children and also the family of David I Cohen and his wife.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Friday 05 June 20 12:07 BST (UK)
You can get the will of Moses Selig / Solomon Phillips free by registering https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D568970
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 05 June 20 13:04 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks for the link. Do you have a link to newspaper article (Philadelphia Jewish Exponent 04 July 1890, p.5) I've never seen it, they're the Baltimore Cohens, my great-great grandaunt Harriet Cohen married into the family marrying David I Cohen.

Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889) married David I Cohen of the Maryland, Baltimore Cohens (about David's brother Jacob and Baltimore Cohens ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_I._Cohen_Jr.) on the 7th of July 1830 in Swansea, Wales.

Sorry, I know nothing about Jewish naming conventions I do know that the "I" in all the male Baltimore men means nothing at all. Jacob I Cohen wanted a way to differentiate himself from all the other Jacob Cohens and so he added an "I" which I suppose is quite a statement, "I". And so it became a family thing.

My thoughts on what I want to do with this information has evolved overtime. I'm going to collate all this information into an interactive media rich online family pedigree called "1773" both Jacob and Catherine Cohen were born in 1773 and the project will trace their lineal and collateral descent. It'll have bios, videos, photos. This project will tell the story of the Swansea, Wales Cohens from 1773 to now. It'll take in Wales, England, USA, Panama, Jamaica, Cuba, India, Australia, that's what I've found so far, and Cohens of all racial and ethnic groups. It's a documentary art project, I'm an artist: https://leonardrcohen.myportfolio.com I work with 3D and photography.

"I've only come across info related to Jewish families in response to your post and recent information I saw last year about the need to archive information relating to Jewish communities in South Wales."

I'd like to hear more about this, are your family from Swansea?

This is one of the family's Jamaican estates (see link) my great-great grandfather Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen (1810-1881) owned his son Fernando Cohen put it up for sale in 1901 it's called Cambria sometimes known as Cambrian (which we all know is latin for Wales/Welshman). It's 415 arches about half the size of Central Park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrnj6sGJsZE&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.

Leonard




Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Saturday 06 June 20 08:29 BST (UK)
Leonard - do you have Jacob's will? Start a new post to request help with deciphering it. There are many keen eyes on RC.

The wills of Solomon and Mordecai Phillips are also both available on ancestry.co.uk

Here are summaries from SynagogueScribes:

Solomon https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=431 (https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=431)

Mordecai https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=1539 (https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=1539)

Sam - it would fantastic if Jacob's and Catherine's gravestones had served and bore legible Hebrew inscriptions. We would then know the name of Jacob's father and Catherine's full Hebrew name.

You're also right in thinking that Douglas is decidedly un-Jewish. His Hebrew name may have been Daniel or Dov or something else entirely. I have not come across Douglas

Vogeltje is a Dutch diminutive of Vogel, which is bird in German. But I think we can safely rule out the geni record.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 12:56 BST (UK)
Hi Justin and Sam,

Heres Jacob Cohen will: https://viewer.library.wales/445405#?c=&m=&s=&cv=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F445405%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=-446%2C-190%2C3614%2C3790

I'll setup and separate post to decipher it as you suggest.

Catherine Cohen, Douglas Cohen, Rosetta Marks (née Cohen). All Balls Pond Road Jewish Cemetery I think. I have shots of the headstones I'll post separately.

Douglas Cohen
http://www.cemeteryscribes.com/getperson.php?personID=I10424&tree=Cemeteries

Harriet Cohen and her son Mendes Cohen Baltimore Hebrew Cemetery.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/139154484/harriet-cohen

You'll find all the Baltimore Cohens via this link.

Thanks

Leonard

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:01 BST (UK)
Headstone Catherine Cohen
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:03 BST (UK)
Rosetta Marks (née Cohen)

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:04 BST (UK)
Harriet Cohen

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:14 BST (UK)
You'll find Jacob Cohen and Catherine Cohen's brother-in-law Jacob Mosely who married Catherine sister Abigail Philips on the Swansea Synagogue founding stone dated 1818.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:24 BST (UK)
Hi Justin and Sam,

Some additional information.

I'm related to the family of US president George Washington.

Esdaile Philip Cohen (1792-1856) was the brother of my 2nd great grandfather Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen (1810-1881). Esdaile immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland possibly with his sister Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889) shortly after Harriet’s wedding to David I Cohen (Baltimore Cohens banking etc.) on the 7 July 1830 in Swansea, Wales.

Esdaile’s 2nd great-grandson, and my 4th cousin, is John Yocum Randolph Crawford (August 4, 1915 – February 14, 1976) an American bridge and backgammon champion, he was a member of the United States bridge teams that won the first three Bermuda Bowls, or world teams championships, in 1950, 1951 and 1953.

John married Marie Blackburn Washington on the 25 November 1939 Marie is the 4th great-granddaughter of John Augustine Washington, brother of US President George Washington. John Yocum Randolph Crawford and Marie Blackburn Washington had three daughters (that I know of): Ames Wright Crawford, Dudley Washington Crawford and Fenton Randolph Crawford making them John Augustine Washington's 5th great-granddaughters and my 4th cousins once removed.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:26 BST (UK)
John Yocum Randolph Crawford

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:32 BST (UK)

The family of Esdaile Philip Cohen (1792-1856) is part of the Malcolm H. Stern genealogy project, I'll write to them.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 13:37 BST (UK)
I've posted a PDF link to Esdaile Philip Cohen's family tree which also cites his sister Harriet Cohen.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Saturday 06 June 20 14:26 BST (UK)
Hello,

Disappointingly, Catherine's gravestone only identifies her as Kela, wife of the late Ya'acov ha-Kohen. No mention of her father.

Rosetta is identified as Blumeh, daughter of Ya'acov ha-Kohen, wife of Michael

The picture of Douglas's gravestone on CemeteryScribes is of very low resolution. I can't make out any of the Hebrew inscription. I was hoping that you may have a better picture.

I also read through Jacob's will. It only mentions Catherine as his wife and executor.

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 15:33 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justine. Yeah, that's all I have.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 15:36 BST (UK)
Sorry, typo, thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 19:36 BST (UK)

Hi Justin and Sam,

Do you think the Jacob in bequests is Jacob Cohen and then therefore Rev. Mr. Eliezer and wife Galba are his parents?

Thanks

Leonard

https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=431

Bequests, Jacob son of Rev. Mr. Eliezer and wife Galba.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Sunday 07 June 20 08:11 BST (UK)
Good morning from Dubai,

Have you also looked at the original transcript of the translation of the will on ancestry?

The text "translated from Hebrew of the German Jewish character" reads:

" ... the fourth share to my son in law Jacob Cohen with his wife Gela ... the fifth share to Jacob son of Reverend Mr. Eliezer with his wife Golta"

The recipients of the fifth share were Jacob Moseley and his wife Abigail.

The original transcript includes a statement made by a Michael Goldsmid (a Hebrew and English teacher) about the authenticity of the Hebrew will based on his long acquaintance with the deceased. Goldsmid confirmed that the handwriting, style and signature were those of Moses Selig. He goes on to specify how the deceased had signed. I can't unravel all the acronyms, but the important ones show that the Moses Selig's title was shaliach tsibur ve-ne’eman = cantor and notary.

In the absence of any record tying him to Swansea, I have to admit to a degree of scepticism about Esdaile P. Cohen being Jacob's and Catherine's son. The records that I have seen (marriage and two versions of the burial) do not even confirm what the initial P stood for. Although it's not an unreasonable assumption that his grandson (born before his death) was given his full secular name.

Just seen the 1850 census in which he was recorded as E.P. Cohen, aged 50, born in Wales

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Sunday 07 June 20 08:25 BST (UK)
I have also identified Jacob's and Catherine's first daughter.

The marriage announcement for Rosetta and Michael Marks described her as the second daughter. One of Sam's links threw up a wedding announcement in The Cambrian of 15 October 1814 of Solomon Levy "of Barnstaple" to Miss Cohen, the daughter of Jacob Cohen of Swansea.

The unnamed daughter was called Rebecca, born in about 1794 in Swansea. Solomon died before the 1841 census, but Rebecca and her children were recorded in Swansea in subsequent censuses. The eldest surviving daughter was Zipporah Levy, b. about 1826 in Barnstaple !!!

Interestingly, Rosetta and Michael Marks named their second daughter also born in 1826 Zipporah. It would appear to be a name passed down the Cohen line.

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 07 June 20 12:44 BST (UK)
Oh, cool, you're in Dubai. Thanks for clearing up Eliezer and Golta. Oh wow, can't believed you've found Rebecca that's incredible. Yeah, we just had her as unknown Cohen 1794. I guess you would have said if this Solomon Levy had any connection with you?

"Interestingly, Rosetta and Michael Marks named their second daughter also born in 1826 Zipporah. It would appear to be a name passed down the Cohen line."

Zipporah Marks married her first cousin the artist Barnett Samuel Marks, his wikipedia page also lists Barnett and Zipporah's children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Samuel_Marks.

Once again thanks for all you help Justin.

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Sunday 07 June 20 14:19 BST (UK)
Quote from: LeonardRCohen on Saturday 06 June 20 19:36 BST (UK)

Hi Justin and Sam,

Do you think the Jacob in bequests is Jacob Cohen and then therefore Rev. Mr. Eliezer and wife Galba are his parents?

Thanks

Leonard

https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century-details/jewish-will-extracts-18th-19th-century/?value=431

Bequests, Jacob son of Rev. Mr. Eliezer and wife Galba.

Yes I wondered that too, but some of the rest of the will is difficult to read and as you say, it's been translated from Hebrew.

Talking of wills, one person named on the bottom of Jacob's will was John Lister Druggist. Although I don't think he was Jerwish. He was of the Lister Family decended from the Lister family of Halifax Yorkshire. John Lister's father Thomas is the one mentioned in paras 5& 6 with is brother Will, both of whom died in the US after emigrating to Virginia. His son William Michael came back to Halifax Yorkshire (his sisters remained in US) and John Lister of Swansea was his son. The Lister's too were involved in trading - slavery amongst other things, so there were connections between the Swansea Listers and the West Indies and also Prince George, Virginia.

There are a few trees including   https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/7254494/person/-1133200411/facts

and the John Lister named on will father William Michael Lister https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/807202/person/-2047195345/facts

Judging from the video you posted Leonard, (looks a fab place) there seems there were Jewish families involved in the sugar trade / slavery and there were Jewish communities established in Charleston South Carolina, Richmn =d Virginia and Baltimore Maryland, with people moving from one to another depending on attitudes towards the keeping of slaves.

Looking again at Moses Seig / Solomon Phillips - I think this could be the will of one of his sons - Mordecai Phillips.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/5111/40611_309708-00349?pid=3442&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D5111%26h%3D3442%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D8914&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.187415208.1279350791.1591146376-888538357.1586680559#?imageId=40611_309708-00349
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Sunday 07 June 20 18:32 BST (UK)
Quote from: JustinL on Sunday 07 June 20 08:11 BST (UK)

Just seen the 1850 census in which he was recorded as E.P. Cohen, aged 50, born in Wales

Justin

In the Liverpool Mail 12 July 1856 it states that on the 22nd ultimo at Baltimore, US, Esdaile P. Cohen, Esq; brother of Dr. Cohen, of Great George Square had died.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 07 June 20 18:36 BST (UK)
Oh cool, thanks, Sam. That's also given me another address for Douglas Cohen who I know worked at Liverpool hospital after graduating from Edinburgh University.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 07 June 20 19:09 BST (UK)
Yes, John Lister Druggist proximity to the Swansea Cohens is a little disturbing, I have as yet found no evidence of the Swansea Cohens having had an involvement in slavery.

I'm interested in finding out about the wealth my family had back then both the Swansea and Baltimore branches. My grandfather Cecil Cohen had extensive land and business interests in Jamaica, a trucking company amongst other things. His father Fernando Cohen, struggling to find anything much on him, and his brothers and sisters look to have had considerable wealth. The Baltimore branch owned a bank Harriet Cohen's husband, David I Cohen (I think they may have been cousins), founded the Baltimore stock exchange. Harriet was Fernando's aunt. Reuben Cohen, Fernando's father, had land in Cuba I know this from a letter he wrote to the British government requesting assistance with a land dispute he was having with the Spanish government. My cousin, who I'm working with on this genealogical project, has ordered a copy of the letter also a copy of Reuben's will. Reuben Cohen lived in Cuba for a while that's where his kids were born.

Thanks

Leonard 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Sunday 07 June 20 19:52 BST (UK)
Hi Both

There are trees with Marks family on An, which have a photo of the grave (unreadable though) of Rosabella Joseph, the daughter of Rosetta and Michael Marks. She looks to be buried in Swansea, though one son went to Inida (Leman). One son - Jacob Cohen Marks, looks to have never married an dspent some time in Vernon House (a private lunatic asylum in Britton Ferry) 

Michael Marks death 1845

His Accident
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3334419/3334422/17/mr%20marks,%20accident  The Cambrian 21 Nov 1845, p3

Death Following amputation of his leg
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3334427/3334430/12/mr%20marks,%20accident
The Cambrian 28 Nov 1845, p. 3, col 3

And slightly different versions of events:
21 Nov 1845 The Welshman, p3, col. 4 https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4364599/4364602/28/mr%20marks%20death

The Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian Glamorgan Monmouth and Brecon Gazette 22 Nov 1845, p1, col. 7  https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3088572/3088573/7/mr%20marks%20death 

This also mentions him being the brother of The Messers Marks St Mary St. Cardiff.


This describes Jewish names being changed, and also an indication in the case of Marks from Mordecai, as being a practice carried out by those from a specific origin
South Wales Daily News 29 Dec 1876, p8, col 6 bottom
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3504288/3504296/122/mr%20marks%20death



Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Sunday 07 June 20 20:59 BST (UK)
Hi Leonard

I've found another article in the Baltimore press relating to Mendes Cohen son of David I Cohen & Harriet. It's mainly about how he became successful from humble beginnings aged 16, when he had to work after his father died. It also talks about his brother Jacob J Cohen member of the bar who married the daughter of the late Benjamin Nathan of NY city.

It's in Philadelphia Jewish Exponent 11 August 1893 page 6


In 1901 Rosabella Joseph (dau of Rosetta and Michael Marks) was still living in Highfeld st Swansea. with a spinster "companion"  who was born in Jamaica named Mary Bason, which I thought was a bit unusual. I haven't been able to find any other reference to her though.

Swansea was not somewhere associated with the slave trade as far as I know. It was renowned as being the centre of Copper making, with copper ore being shipped from South America and other places that had copper ore.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 07 June 20 21:21 BST (UK)
Please do send a link to the article. A lot of Jacob and Catherine Cohen's kids didn't marry or have kids: Douglas, Charlotte, they lived together in London at 1a 31 Paddington St, London in the 1880s, Matilda Cohen never married I have her living in Mumbles Swansea Bay, which I've seen a video of it looks beautiful I'd like to visit. It's interesting that a Jamaica connection appears in 1901 that's when my great grandfather Fernando Cohen put the Cambrian up for sale, one of the family estates in Jamaica. I wonder who this Mary Bason was.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 09 June 20 10:16 BST (UK)
Good morning gents,

It certainly would have been an incredible coincidence if Solomon Levy had been one of my ancestors. However, it's most unlikely, given that none of my Jewish ancestors set foot in the UK before 1871.

I spent quite a bit of time yesterday looking at the Cohens of Baltimore, particularly the brothers Jacob and Israel, to see if there is any way to connect them to your Jacob in Swansea and to understand the significance of the mysterious middle initial "I".

I now know that they came from Oberdorf am Ipf, a small village that is now part of Bopfingen in the German state of Baden-Württemberg, very close to the border with Bavaria. Jews settled in the village in the 16th century.

All the published genealogies report that the brothers' parents were Joshua and Pesslah. Until about 1840, the Jews of Oberdorf were buried in nearby Wallerstein. By chance, the inscriptions of the gravestones have been transcribed and made available on the internet. Here is the full list http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cgi-bin/epidat?info=name-wls#namensliste (http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cgi-bin/epidat?info=name-wls#namensliste)

This would appear to be the inscription recorded on the gravestone of Joshua Cohen http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cgi-bin/epidat?sel=wls&function=Ins&projekt=&lang=de&jahrv=1771 (http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cgi-bin/epidat?sel=wls&function=Ins&projekt=&lang=de&jahrv=1771)

The date matches very closely with that on the attached Cohen family tree. Also note that Israel married in Bristol (UK) before moving on to Virginia. Bristol isn't a million miles away from Swansea. 

More food for thought.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 09 June 20 11:04 BST (UK)
Now for the mysterious "I" ....

The family history (see http://digipres.cjh.org:1801/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE1017160 (http://digipres.cjh.org:1801/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE1017160)) records that Jacob arrived in the US in 1773, where he was granted a licence to trade with the Indians.

Lo and behold, Jacob Isaiah Cohen was granted such a licence on 12 May 1773
(http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pkk/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pkk/)). I find it hard to believe that that was not Jacob I. Cohen.

In secular records, German Jews were generally referred to as given name + father's given name + byname/surname (if one existed). The vast majority of Jews in German territories did not adopt hereditary surnames until the early 19th century. In larger communities, this patronymic form served to distinguish between people with the same given name and surname.

My 4th great-grandfather appears in German records as Matthes Jacob Levi (d. 1803); he was Matthes son of Jacob Levi. His grandson (my 2nd ggf) appears as Matthias David Levy; he was Matthias son of David Levy.

The above would suggest that Jacob and Israel were the sons of Isaiah. But then what about Joshua?

Here's my theory, for what it's worth. Joshua is the English form of the Hebrew name Yehoshua, sometimes shortened to Yeshua. Isaiah comes from Yesha'yahu. The names are virtual synonyms; the former means "God saved", the latter "Saved by God".

However, in secular German records of Jews, the name Josua is extremely unusual, whereas Isaias/Jesaias is not uncommon. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Jacob's and Israel's father used Isaias/Isaiah as his secular name.

Moving to the "I" used as a middle initial by Israel's children, it is perfectly logical that each child had the name Israel as a patronymic, e.g. David [son of] Israel Cohen.

This was a just a bit of an academic digression ... the result of being jobless in lockdown

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 09 June 20 20:05 BST (UK)
Thanks for clearing up the "I", I had different information that looks erroneous.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 09 June 20 20:06 BST (UK)
I'm checking out the links now.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 10 June 20 19:39 BST (UK)
Going back a bit

Quote from: Sam Swift on Sunday 07 June 20 20:59 BST (UK)
Hi Leonard
In 1901 Rosabella Joseph (dau of Rosetta and Michael Marks) was still living in Highfeld st Swansea. with a spinster "companion"  who was born in Jamaica named Mary Bason, which I thought was a bit unusual. I haven't been able to find any other reference to her though.

Swansea was not somewhere associated with the slave trade as far as I know. It was renowned as being the centre of Copper making, with copper ore being shipped from South America and other places that had copper ore.

The Mary Ann moved in 1911 to be a companion to a widow of a merchant in London.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5V-JVB

Mary Ann is the daughter of HALBERT Basan who was born in Jamaica but was back in London in the 1841 census. He was a member of the Stock exchange & stock broker. He got married to Matilda Delgado. 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB62-QL4

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-FX88

And on the copper side of things, there were boats also bringing copper ore from Cuba to Swansea.


Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 10 June 20 19:48 BST (UK)
Cool, I'll check it out now, thanks, sam.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 11 June 20 09:27 BST (UK)
I haven't checked if this link has already been posted but if you are checking Jamaican records -
http://www.jamaicanfamilysearch.com
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 11 June 20 09:33 BST (UK)
Thanks, yes, I've seen this site.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 11 June 20 14:20 BST (UK)
More Cohens and Levys!!

In the 1891 census, Solomon's and Rebecca's daughter Zipporah Levy was recorded as a visitor in the house of Fanny Brummer who was born in about 1836 Bristol.

Zipporah travelled a long way from Swansea to visit Fanny. There must have been a good reason. On further investigation, it turns out that Fanny was the daughter of Cosman Cohen (1805-1856) and the widowed Sarah Hyam (c1793-1883). They would have wed in Bristol in about 1830.

Sarah's eldest son by her first marriage, Benjamin Hyam (c1817-1870), married Lucy Hadida and fathered six children in SWANSEA before his untimely death in Swansea. Lucy was back in London in 1871.

The only marriage record that I can find that could be of Benjamin's parents is the 1812 marriage between Hyam Moses and Sarah Levy. Interestingly, the groom's Hebrew name was Chayim son of Mosheh Shvab. Shvab = Schawb in German = Swabia in English. Oberdorf am Ipf is in this region of southern Germany.

If this marriage turns out to be that of Benjamin's parents, it raises the possibility that his mother was the sister of Solomon Levy and that Zipporah was visiting her half-cousin Fanny in 1891.

More avenues to be researched.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 11 June 20 17:03 BST (UK)
That's great, thank you, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Sunday 14 June 20 14:25 BST (UK)
I have just seen this extensive and very helpful thread of posts.  My interest is that Mordecai Phillips (Catherine's brother) was my 4x great grandfather and I started researching this particular bit of my family quite recently.  I am descended from Mordecai's third daughter, Sarah Phillips, and can provide more details on that line if anybody is interested.  I have also transcribed Mordecai's will of 1847 and his father's of 1815 (he died in 1816 but wrote the will the previous year) so would be happy to share those as well.

When I study this thread in detail I may have more queries but for now I have four questions:
(1) In his will, Solomon Phillips does not mention his daughter Abigail but does mention his son-in-law Leib and his wife Haya.  Should I associate Haya with Abigail? And was Leib an alternative name for her husband Jacob Mosely?
(2) Why was there such a strong connection between the Phillips family in London, who were closely connected with the Hambro Synagogue, and Swansea?  In the early 19th Century, and before the railways, surely transport connections between the two places were really quite difficult so there is much more than chance involved here?
(3) In his will, Solomon Phillips leaves his ring to Hendelah the daughter of Mordecai.  By the date of this will, Mordecai had four daughters.  Which one was Hendelah?  Is Henrietta, who was the eldest, the most likely?
(4) Mordecai's brother, Joseph, (a warden of the Hambro Synagogue in London) married his niece, Charlotte Mosely of Swansea.  This is the only avunculate marriage that I am aware of in my family.  I know that they were allowed in the Jewish community and Joseph and Charlotte were completely open about it.  In practice how common were they?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 14 June 20 15:29 BST (UK)
Hi David,

Wow, thanks for joining the thread. I guess we're some kinda 5th cousins. Sorry, I don't have any of the answers to your questions Sam and Justin have been very helpful and really generous with their time and knowledge so maybe they'll have an answer. As you may know from reading the threads I'm working on a genealogical study and art project with my first cousin Deborah Cohen. We're researching the lineal and collateral descent of Jacob and Catherine Cohen (née Philips) of Swansea, Wales. What you've said so far is fascinating, please do expand.

We're using https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G9FZ-M5Z as an online genealogical repository. It would be great if you could check the Philips family branch on Family Search for errors. I'm concerned that some of the information on Sarah Philips is wrong: birth dates of children, number of children; we had her married to the wrong man for a while; do we have the correct portrait of her; is this the right Sarah Philips? I would very much value your input and would be happy to share information and assist you in any way that I can.

If you'd like to contact me directly you can do so via my site https://leonardrcohen.myportfolio.com

Great hearing from you David,

Leonard Cohen

   
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Sunday 14 June 20 23:44 BST (UK)
Dear Leonard,

I have had a look at the Family Search tree.  Unfortunately I think you have picked up the wrong Sarah Phillips.  There were two who are often muddled up. I have both of them in my tree and they confused me for a while!

The Sarah Phillips born in Southwark in 1799 and who died in 1872 in the City of London, married Jacob Michael Silverston at the Hambro Synagogue on 5 June 1822.  She was the third daughter of Mordecai and had 11 children and at least 63 grandchildren.

The Sarah Phillips born in Plymouth in 1789 and who died in London in 1875 was married to Jacob Solomon.  There are good surviving portraits of this Sarah and her husband.  You have picked up one of these.  There is also a surviving portrait of this Sarah's parents but I have never seen it although I know where it was in the 1980s and I am still trying to track it down.  Apparently this portrait dates from 1804 and is described as "Mr and Mrs Phillips of Exeter".  Annoyingly no first names are recorded.

What is the best way to correct the "project" tree in Family Search?

Regards,  David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:19 BST (UK)
Hi David,

Please join Family Search it's free and update the relevant pages if you need any additional guidance, please let me know.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:23 BST (UK)
Once you've joined Family Search you'll have access to the edit settings see screen grab for guidance.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:25 BST (UK)
I'm 'watching' Sarah Philips so I'll receive a notification when it's done.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:28 BST (UK)
Jacob Michael Silverston

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G7Z8-1HR
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:30 BST (UK)
I've found Jacob Michael Silverston, I'll attach him to Sarah Philips. Then please check.

Thanks
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:37 BST (UK)
Hi David,

I've updated Sarah Philips' card, please check (see link below).

Thanks

Leonard

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G7Z8-TFS
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 00:42 BST (UK)
Hi David,

Any idea who the unknown Philip might be? See screen grab.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Monday 15 June 20 10:53 BST (UK)
Hello everybody,

Each time I blink, there are more additions to this thread. Great stuff.

Welcome on board David.

In answers to your questions David.

1) Abigail's Hebrew name as inscribed on her gravestone in Swansea was Beyla, not Golda as written in Solomon's will. Jacob Mosely was Ya'acov son of Eliezer in Hebrew.

I established yesterday that Haya's husband was Levy Phillips, who died on 21 Oct 1837 at Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury. The entry in the death register notes that he was the son-in-law of Zelig the hazan. His full Hebrew name Yehuda Leib son of Uri ha-Levi (the Levite).

The name Leib is Yiddish for "lion" and is the description given by the Biblical Jacob to his son Judah (Yehuda). More often than not, Hebrew records will record an individual as Yehuda known as Leib. Levy/Levi was frequently adopted as a secular name, particularly in Germany, e.g. Levi Strauss. The reasons for this remain obscure, although I have my own theory. During the course of the 19th century, Louis/Lewis became fashionable.

3) Hendala is a mystery to me. Henrietta's marriage to Moses Cohen is recorded in the marriage register of the Hambro synagogue. Her name appears as Caroline / Golda daughter of Mordecai. This may simply have been a mistake on the part of the person who made the entry. Her gravestone from 1868 would probably clarify the matter. However, Henrietta was frequently the English name used for the Hebrew/Yiddish name Hendala/Hendela.

4) Your question about avunculate marriages (a new term to me, I confess) is an interesting one. There are at least two cases in my own Jewish ancestry. I can put the question to the forum on JewishGen.

Only yesterday, I discovered that Joseph Phillips had previously been married to Frances Friedeberg, i.e. Esther's sister. Frances died or was buried on 6 Sep 1834. Her address was Merthyr Tydfil !!

The Friedebergs were a large family.

Justin



Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Monday 15 June 20 11:30 BST (UK)
Dear Leonard, Justin

Justin thanks for addressing my queries.  This is an extraordinarily productive thread.

Leonard asked about the "unknown" Phillips.  I don't think that she ever existed and I will explain my reasons in a slightly roundabout way.

In his will Solomon Phillips left part of his estate to his sons-in-law rather than his daughters.  This reflected the prevailing view of the status of women at that time as well as their marriage contracts.  By contrast Mordecai Phillips, in his will, took some care to make sure that his daughters benefitted from his estate rather than their husbands or any future husbands.  One way he did this was to set up trusts for each of his daughters with the trustees being some of his sons-in-law (except the relevant daughter's husband) and in each case there was an "independent" trustee who was Edward Foligno.  Edward was a friend of Mordecai's and, like Mordecai, a successful silversmith in the City of London.  However he went to the Bevis Marks Synagogue which followed the Sephardic tradition and indeed held almost all important positions there in the course of his life.  He also donated silverware to the synagogue and I am trying to find out if it is still in their collection 150+ years later.  Mordecai's allegiance was to the Hambro synagogue where his father had been a minister and his brother a warden.

I think that the role of Edward was to keep the family trustees honest and to avoid the risk of any collusion between sons-in-law.  However there is one passage in the will setting up these trusts that could be interpreted in a way that implies that Edward was also a son-in-law.  I think this (in my view erroneous) interpretation has given rise to the assumption that he was married to an unknown daughter.  I don't think that Edward ever married.  However I have not gone as far as getting hold of his will to see if he left any money to a wife or any descendants.  Perhaps I will sometime.

Which leads me to describe the end product of my researches.  Leonard is creating an art work.  I am creating a series of "coffee table" style family stories for my children and grandchildren.  The twist is that each story / chapter is linked to an object.  The object does not necessarily have to be in my possession.  At the start when I sketched out the 50 objects, I planned to use what I thought was a portrait of my 3x great grandmother, Sarah Phillips.  Since discovering that it was the "wrong" Mary Phillips I am now casting around for a suitable object.  Edward's silverware gift to the Bevis Marks synagogue may have to serve although I would like to find something that is more directly associated with an ancestor.  So far I have completed three volumes of stories each with ten chapters.  I am now working on volume four and, provisionally, the Phillips / Silverston / Cohen saga will be chapter 37.  On average I take about 18 months to prepare each volume.

On 7 June Leonard referred to the Wikipedia entry for the artist Barnett Samuel Marks.  I was aware of this already and had come across him before without realising that he had married a cousin.  For thirty years after leaving Wales he lived in Ealing which is the London suburb where I live.  He got involved in community affairs and, in particular, is remembered for working to establish a free library in the the borough.  A self portrait of him and another portrait of John Allen Brown (the main driving force behind the library) used to hang in the mezzanine section of the main library that was devoted to local history.  This building has now been reconfigured as a result of budget cuts and I don't know if they are still displayed or consigned to some store room.  Why did Marks chose Ealing?  I don't know but there has been a small Welsh community in Ealing since the 1840s when the GWR railway was built. There was / is a Welsh speaking chapel a few hundred yards from where he lived and there is still a Welsh speaking school for children aged 3 to 11 in the borough.  Perhaps he thought he would feel at home with fellow Welshmen around!

David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 18:25 BST (UK)
Hi David, Justin, Sam,

Thanks, David for adding all this great detail. I'd like to work out our genealogical relationship. On Family Search you can only view the deceased not living even though they may have been added due to data protection. Link to my father (deceased) https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LRFP-CDT

Mordecai Phillips was my 3rd great-granduncle.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Monday 15 June 20 22:37 BST (UK)
Leonard,

You are my mother's fifth cousin and my fifth cousin once removed. I think that the generations were that bit closer together on my side.  My mother, Patricia Mary Davis was born in 1924 and died in 2017.  I was born in 1949.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 22:51 BST (UK)
Yeah, my 2nd great grandfather Reuben Cohen was the youngest boy and second youngest child. Did you know we're related to the family of George Washington? I've mentioned this previously in the thread.

Esdaile Philip Cohen (1792-1856) was the brother of my 2nd great grandfather Reuben Zaleg Philip Cohen (1810-1881). Esdaile immigrated to Baltimore, Maryland possibly with his sister Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889) shortly after Harriet’s wedding to David I Cohen (Baltimore Cohens banking etc.) on the 7 July 1830 in Swansea, Wales.

Esdaile’s 2nd great-grandson, and my 4th cousin, is John Yocum Randolph Crawford (August 4, 1915 – February 14, 1976) an American bridge and backgammon champion, he was a member of the United States bridge teams that won the first three Bermuda Bowls, or world teams championships, in 1950, 1951 and 1953.

John married Marie Blackburn Washington on the 25 November 1939 Marie is the 4th great-granddaughter of John Augustine Washington, brother of US President George Washington. John Yocum Randolph Crawford and Marie Blackburn Washington had three daughters (that I know of): Ames Wright Crawford, Dudley Washington Crawford and Fenton Randolph Crawford making them John Augustine Washington's 5th great-granddaughters and my 4th cousins once removed.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 23:34 BST (UK)
Have you published your stories yet? I guess they'll be books, as you described them as coffee table stories, rather than online. I'm making a media rich online family tree, that'll be a repository and exhibition on the family and decedents of Jacob and Catherine Cohen (still deciding on whether it should be lineal and collateral or just lineal).

I have Catherine Cohen's (née Philips) DOB and death as 1773 - 1865 making her 92 when she died but her headstone says she was 95 when she died (see screen grab, I can't make out year of death). Any thoughts David, Sam, Justin? There's an error somewhere here.

I think Justin mentioned a painting of Catherine being in the possession of her daughter's Harriet's children. I wrote to Maryland Historical Society requesting access to their Cohen Collection, 1773-1945, MS 251. I haven't had a response. See copy of email below.


Cohen Collection, 1773-1945, MS 251

I'm hoping I might be able to access the Cohen Collection, 1773-1945, MS 251. I'm doing a genealogical study and art project on the family and descendants of Jacob and Catherine Cohen of Swansea, Wales my 3rd great-grandparents. Their daughter Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889) married David I Cohen of the Maryland, Baltimore Cohens on the 7th of July 1830 in Swansea, Wales. Harriet Cohen is the sister of my 2nd great-grandfather Reuben Zaleg Philip Cohen (1810-1881). I understand there is a portrait of Catherine Cohen, this may or may not be in your collection, bequeathed to Mendes Cohen (1831 - 1915) Harriet's son by her daughter Margaret Cohen    (1837 - 1902) sometime in 1902. Which is one of the items I'd be very keen to see if it is indeed in your collection?

Many

Thanks

Leonard Cohen
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 15 June 20 23:38 BST (UK)
Catherine Cohen's headstone.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 16 June 20 06:56 BST (UK)
Good morning,

Only the other day, I spotted that the year of death given on Catherine's gravestone is 5625, which corresponds to 1865. 17th February 5625 (1865) = 21 Sh'vat 5625 in the Hebrew calendar.

Without a birth record of some sort, you can never be certain of the year of birth. I would enter a range or simply say "approx." or "circa".

I meant to ask you how you determined that Jacob was born in 1773.

I don't recall writing anything about a painting of Catherine. I'll have to check.

Justin

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 16 June 20 09:23 BST (UK)
Clever detective work by Justin to identify Levy Phillips as the husband of Catherine's sister Haya.  I am applying for Levy's death certificate (he appears as Levi Phillips in the index) in the hope of getting his occupation and possibly Haya's secular name.  But certificates are suddenly taking an age to come through having been very quick at the start of the pandemic.  So I don't know when I will have anything to share. 

Apart from his wife's name (Sarah) and that he died before 1847, what do we know about Catherine's brother Abraham?  She was living in Abergavenny in 1847.  I wonder why as it is quite a small market town.  But not that far from Merthyr Tydfil where we learn that Frances died.  Has anyone found Sarah in the 1841 or 1851 census?

David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 16 June 20 12:52 BST (UK)
I have had no success in finding either Abraham Phillips or his wife, Sarah. Very frustrating given that we know she must be there somewhere ... unless she happened to live in Paddington or some other for which the 1841 census has not survived.

Surprisingly, Haya(h) only appear a few times in the online Anglo-Jewish records. One of the records was purely in Hebrew. In the other two cases, the women's secular names were Fanny and Kitty.

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 16 June 20 13:51 BST (UK)
Catherine Cohen lived at 31 Orange Street, Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales circa 1851.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 16 June 20 13:55 BST (UK)
Hi David
What year do you have for the death of Levy (Levi) Phillips and what Reg district ?
Sam
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 16 June 20 13:57 BST (UK)
"I meant to ask you how you determined that Jacob was born in 1773."

That's the data that's on Family Search.

"I don't recall writing anything about a painting of Catherine. I'll have to check.

Justin"

I thought I pulled the data from this thread, maybe it was Sam. I can't remember.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 16 June 20 14:28 BST (UK)
Hi All

I think Leonard's post starts with the dates of birth 1773 being given for Jacob and Catherine. I haven't been able to find anything written or printed that gives their age on death. There are some editions of the Cambrian missing online, and I was hoping maybe that when Catherine died she would have been mentioned in The Cambrian, but the 1865 edition is not online.  It might be an idea to get her death certificate, they sometimes differ in detail in comparison with what's on gravestones.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 16 June 20 14:31 BST (UK)
Someone mentioned something about Paddington and Catherine Cohen? Her son Douglas Cohen 1891 was living with his sister Charlotte and a servant Hannah Carlen in Paddington circa 1891 at 1a 31 Paddington Street now a burger bar called Honest Burgers Baker Street.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 16 June 20 14:32 BST (UK)
Yes, I'll look into getting death certs.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 16 June 20 21:49 BST (UK)
I have found that the niece of Mordecai called Charlotte Styer was the daughter of Levi and Haya Phillips.

http://www.cemeteryscribes.com/getperson.php?personID=I1956&tree=Cemeteries (http://www.cemeteryscribes.com/getperson.php?personID=I1956&tree=Cemeteries)

Her husband Abraham Simeon Styer was a dentist in Northampton.  One of their sons, Leonard Reuben (“Robert”) Styer who was also a dentist, was President of the Brighton Swimming Club, which claims to be the oldest in England.  There is a picture of him at:

http://www.brightonsc.co.uk/history.html (http://www.brightonsc.co.uk/history.html)

Two of his daughters were successful members of the club and there is still a current club trophy named after one of them.  Robert was the first president of the Sussex County Swimming Association.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 16 June 20 22:02 BST (UK)
Hi David,

I think I missed a step here Levi Philips is the brother of Mordecai Phillips and Catherine Cohen? He's not in my records, I'll update them.

Thanks
Leonard 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 16 June 20 22:13 BST (UK)
Sam asked for details of Levi Philips civil death registration.  I have Q4 1837 St Giles Registration District Volume 1 page 41.  This is consistent with the burial information provided by Justin.  Great Russell Street, Bloomsbury is given as his residence and that is only a fairly short walk to St Giles-in-Fields, Holborn which is the parish after which (I assume) the civil registration district is known.  Curiously Levi's daughter later lived at St Giles in Northampton very close to another relative of mine, Henry Lenton Stockburn who was Mayor of Northampton in 1830 and an alderman and magistrate there until the 1860s.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 16 June 20 22:20 BST (UK)
Leonard,

Actually Haya was a sister of Catherine and Mordecai.  She married Levy / Levi Phillips which was uncovered by Justin in a post yesterday.  I have no idea whether Haya and Levy having the same secular surnames is significant or not.  Thus Levy / Levi was a brother-in-law to Catherine and not a brother.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 00:10 BST (UK)
Hi David,

Is this Leonard Reuben (“Robert”) Styer?

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LTW3-CVB

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 00:12 BST (UK)
Also found this https://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/BrightonSwimmingClub.htm
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 00:21 BST (UK)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/38482/page/6601/data.pdf

Albert St John Styer
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 17 June 20 08:31 BST (UK)
Good find, David, especially since the surname was mistranscribed as Hyam on the SynagogueScribes site.

However, Charlotte Styer's maiden name Levy, not Phillips. What makes you think that she was the daughter of Levi and Haya?

Are you thinking that she used her father's given name as a patronymic surname?

Added: The maiden name of the Styer children's mother was recorded as PHILIP, not LEVY.

I think that nails it. Great detective work, David



Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 17 June 20 17:36 BST (UK)
I tried the obvious google search of "Abraham Phillips" and "Abergavenny" and came up with:

Sarah, relict of AP, died 7 March 1849, aged 62 (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pls/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pls/))

Helen Phillips, youngest daughter of AP, married M.C. [Martin Carl] Schletter of Birmingham on 1st November 1843 (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plt/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plt/))

There was an older daughter, Annely Frances Phillips who married Isaac Mendes de Leon, a Sephardi Jew from a well-known Amsterdam family.

Looks like Abraham was a silversmith and freemason (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plu/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plu/))

I can't find any of them in 1841 census. I wonder if some pages are missing or illegible.

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 17:39 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justin. I'll add that to my data base.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 17:47 BST (UK)
Does anyone know Sarah wife of Abraham Philips Madian name?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 17:59 BST (UK)
Hi All

I have some stuff to upload shortly as well on Abraham and Sarah, some extra to what Justin has found. I thinl Abraham died somewhere between 1814 and 1820 something and that they also had a Pawnbrokers shop. I have also found two more of their children, so will add them in a minute now.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 17 June 20 18:01 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Sam.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 19:06 BST (UK)
There's a Sarah Phillips – shopkeeper living at Tudor st Abergavenny 1841 aged 60 (so born about 1781)

Then there's an entry in the 1830 and 1842-44 Pigot's Directory
1842-1844 for Abergavenny for Sarah Phillips shopkeeper Tudor st

Sarah must have been widowed by 1823 – since there is an ad relating to Sarah Phillips auctioning unredeemed pledges from her Abergavenny Pawnbrokers shop - Bristol Mirror 06 September 1823, p.2

See Gwent Record Office Catalogue where there's an 1814 depsoition by Mary Minett servant of Mr Abraham Phillips pawnbroker for theft  = Mary Minett, servant to Mr Abraham Phillip s of Abergavenny, pawnbroker, concerning various article s of clothin g that have been stolen. D.1078.88 l8l 4 January 15 Depositions and Examination

I think there was also another daughter -   On 1st Nov 1843 Marriage of  M C Schletter esq of Birmingham to Helen younger  daughter of the late Abraham Phillips esq Abergavenny  at Gloucester Villa Regent’s Park in the Bristol Times and Mirror 18 Nov 1843 


31 Mar 1835 Sarah Phillips Pawnbroker files for Insolvency to be discharged Perry's Bankrupt Gazette 04 April 1835, p.6 

There's no mention of her in relation to Pawnbroking by 1835 when the only references to Panwbrokers were for Nathan Isaacs see  Hereford Times 12 December 1835, so maybe he took it over.

Her son Leopold Philips dies 20 July 1847 aged 20 at Margate - reported in Monmouthshire Beacon 31 July 1847, p3  - described as the youngest son of the late Mr Phillips Pawnbroker of Abergavenny,, Says the young man was much respected and sincerely lamented by a large circle of friends and acquantances.

The second daughter of Sarah and Abraham Phillips gets married - 16 Nov 1833 – married at st Mary’s church Abergavenny, by the Rev W Powell, Mr Boulter to Charlotte the second daughter of Sarah Phillips Pawnbroker late of Abergavenny, granddaughter to the late Zaleg Phillips of London, for many years clerk to the Hamburgh Jewish Synagogue of that place. The bride has been brought up in the Jewish faith which she abjured previous to her marriage. In Hereford Times 16 November 1833 , p.3

Sarah dies, as Justin says in 1847,
Sarah wife of late Abraham Phillips Esq of Abergavenny. She died aged 62 in Cockspur street London died on 7 March 1849 reported in Sun (London) 10 Mar 1849, p.8 
She left a will (prerogative of Cantebury - online). In this she names a nephew John Morgan of Nantyglo - could be the one that's in the same schedule of one of the censuses.Also names William Watkins,  the son of her late brotheralso named William Watkins. So her maiden name must have been WATKINS. Also names a brother Gilbert Watkins and her sister Mary teh wife of George Morgan, Joyce Watkins the widow of her late brother  Thomas Watkins, names John ?? Watkins as sole executor and adds in a codicil that she leaves items to her niece Hannah Watkins dughter of her brother Benjamin. There are some other names earlier in the will, which I'm having difficulty seeing online. Sarah Phillips  Probate Date 27 Apr 1847
Residence   Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales. The codicil was added just a few dies before her death which was apparently in Cockspur street Fulham.


In 1841 there are 3 Phillipses a Rosetta born 1811, a Fanny born and an M phillips - male a watchmaker born 1816 and Fanny born 1821 all born outside of the county
St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex HO107/739 Book: 3 /39 p 1

I looked at Cockspur street on the 1851 census and living there was Harriet and and Rosetta Phillips, born Abergavenny

Can't find them on the 1861 census, but in 1871 they are lodging at Gloucester Grove with a widowed Harriet Lancaster and her sister in law. None of them ahve an occupation. 1871 Census; RG10/53/11 p 14

Rosetta and sister Harriet were living at 31 Cockspur street in 1871 and in 1880 Rosetta died.
http://www.cemeteryscribes.com/getperson.php?personID=I8532&tree=Cemeteries


Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 19:20 BST (UK)
GRO Says Leopold was Leopold Maurice Phillips aged 27    
PHILLIPS, LEOPOLD  MAURICE     27 
GRO Reference: 1847  S Quarter in ISLE OF THANET  Volume 05  Page 354
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 19:36 BST (UK)
Charlotte Phillips who married Mr Boulter in 1833 was born in about 1810 and had a daughter Henrietta born in 1835 in city of Leicster. They are both on the 1851 census , but Mr Boulter is not there.    Buttesland Street, Shoreditch
HO107 Piece number   1535 Folio   589 Page   23
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 19:45 BST (UK)
Charlotte is widowed in the 1861Census, living with her daughter Henrietta now 24 and Charlotte's BROTHER William Phillips an unmarried jeweller born Abergavenny aged 45, born in 1816

House number   13
Street   St Georges Terrace
Parish   St Mary Abbotts Kensington
City or borough   -
Town   Kensington
County   London, Middlesex
Country   England
Municipal ward   -
Parliamentary borough   -
Ecclesiastical district   St Mary Abbotts
Registration district   Kensington
Enumeration district   -
Archive reference   RG09
Piece number   17
Folio   12
Page   25
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 17 June 20 20:19 BST (UK)
Name:   Charlotte Jane Philipps
Gender:   Female
Marriage Date:   11 Nov 1833
Marriage Place:   Abergavenny, Monmouth, England
Spouse:   Edward Daniel Boulter


1881 Census Charlotte is living with her daughter Henrietta C Emmett who has married (hsuband William Henry Emett a lithographer is not on the census) and children at 3 Percy Rd Hammersmith, Fulham.
Children are
Frederick W. Emett   16
Edward H. Emett   14
Arthur Emett   12
Rose Emett   10
Ellen M. Emett   5
all born Kensington and the 3 eldest boys all baptised on 8 March 1870 at St Stephens's Kensington (CofE)

Charlotte died in 1881
Boulter    Charlotte   age  74    Fulham    1a   155   
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 18 June 20 08:50 BST (UK)
Some excellent discoveries there, Sam.

However, the will of 1847 is not the will of Abraham's wife who died 2 years later. Furthermore, I cannot imagine that Sarah (wife of Abraham) would not mention any of her many children in her will.

Added: The Hereford Times of 20 March 1847 reported the death of "Sarah, relict of the late Mr. Henry Phillips, late of Abergavenny" on th 8th.

The Sarah Phillips recorded in Tudor Street in 1841 is living with her nephew John Morgan

Sarah Phillips was a remarkably commonplace name.

Are you sure that Leonard was 20, and not 30, when he died? You cited the 1823 article about Sarah auctioning unredeemed pledges. I agree that it does suggest that she was already widowed. If Leonard appeared in 1827, it raises a question about the identity of his father.

Added: I found the death notice. Leopold was 27 years old.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 18 June 20 10:14 BST (UK)
Following Sam's approach, I checked the residents of Cockspur Street in 1841. At no. 31, where Rosetta and Harriet Phillips were living in 1851, there were Robert (aged 26) and William (aged 20) Phillips. Both watchmakers or matchmakers, I think, and not born in the county.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8978/images/MDXHO107_738_740-0188?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ancestry.co.uk%2F (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8978/images/MDXHO107_738_740-0188?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ancestry.co.uk%2F)

The older man was the goldsmith and jeweller Robert Abraham Phillips, b. about 1815 Abergavenny, married Helen Levy on 23 Nov 1842 in London. They most likely married in the New Synagogue in whose registers the births of a couple of their children were recorded. Robert's Hebrew name was Ruben son of Abraham.

William turns up in 1871 as a goldsmith "boarding" with the widowed Charlotte Boulter in Kensington. Both born in Abergavenny. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plz/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01plz/)
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 18 June 20 16:20 BST (UK)
Hi,

Rosetta and Harriet Phillips were descendant from which sibling of Charlotte Cohen (née Phillips)?

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 18 June 20 16:21 BST (UK)
Sorry, I've lost track who is Robert Abraham Phillips? What's his relationship to Cathrine Cohen?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 18 June 20 18:14 BST (UK)
We're now looking into Abraham Phillips and his wife Sarah who had a lot of children in Abergavenny. It's just another collateral line for you.

We're no further forward on the Cohen line ... unfortunately.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 18 June 20 18:27 BST (UK)
Okay, that's cool. I'm capturing both lineal and collateral descent from Jacob and Catherine Cohen. What relationship do Robert Abraham Phillips, Rosetta and Harriet Phillips have to Abraham Phillips? Is Robert Abraham Phillips and Abraham Phillips, Catherine Cohen's brother, the same person; is the family surname spelt Phillips or Philips? I'm using Phillips. Just wanna update my records.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Friday 19 June 20 09:38 BST (UK)
Robert Abraham Phillips was the son of Abraham, i.e. Catherine Cohen's nephew.

The convention appears to have been Phillips with a double "l".

Justin
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 19 June 20 18:23 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 20 June 20 14:34 BST (UK)
Found this here: EVENTS IN 5673: July 1, 1912, to June 30, 1913
Source: The American Jewish Year Book , October 2, 1913, to September 20, 1914 / 5674 , Vol. 15, THE JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY 1888 - 1913 (October 2, 1913, to September 20, 1914 / 5674), pp. 221-360
Published by: American Jewish Committee; Springer

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23600750?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

See screen grab.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Saturday 20 June 20 15:32 BST (UK)
Here is the Wikipedia entry for Maurice Arthur Mendes de Leon who was a grandson of Abraham Phillips via his daughter Annely Francis ("Fanny") Phillips. It explains that he only spent his childhood in England and that the family then moved to Amsterdam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.A._Mendes_de_Leon
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 20 June 20 15:46 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, David.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Saturday 20 June 20 17:35 BST (UK)
It's interesting to see actual reports of immigrants visiting their home countries. Fanny and her husband Barnett probably left Russia (Polish-Russia to be precise) as a result of pogroms during the 1880s.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Saturday 20 June 20 20:30 BST (UK)
This appears to be a burial record of Annaley Frances Phillips ("Fenni") in Ouderkerk on 2 August 1896.  My understanding of "overleden te" is that it means "died in".  If so it was a long way to bring her body from Abergavenny to South Holland.  Can "overleden te" mean something quite different like "late of" or even "born in"?  If she did die in Abergavenny then her death would have had to be registered there and I can find no evidence of that.  And why would she return to Wales so many years after she had left?

https://www.geni.com/photo/view?album_type=photos_of_me&id=6000000019903065768&photo_id=6000000032917191849&position=0
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Saturday 20 June 20 23:01 BST (UK)
It was mentioned a few pages back that Abraham Phillips's youngest daughter, Helen, married Martin Carl Schletter of Birmingham in 1843.  He had been born in Loslau, Silesia in Prussia about 1804 and, according to his naturalisation papers filed in 1853, he had resided in Birmingham from about 1833. He manufactured brass bedsteads for a while, then colours and settled as a general merchant.  He must have traveled abroad quite a bit judging from the number of passports that he applied for and he died overseas in Venice on 27 December 1861.  Martin did well financially, leaving an estate worth over £4 million in 2020 pounds.  Helen and Martin had at least four children: Pauline (b 16 September 1845), Henry (b 13 July 1847), Amelia (b 31 March 1854) and Percy (b 4 August 1855) who were baptised together at St Marks Marylebone on 16 March 1859. 

I don't know what happened to the other children but Percy married a ship-owner's daughter in Liverpool in 1896 and went on to become a Colonel in the British Army.  He died in Angola and here is his memorial in Toxteth Park Cemetery:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/183643282/percy-schletter

Culturally there is quite a journey from Abraham's father to his grandson, Percy.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 20 June 20 23:32 BST (UK)
Does anyone know who Annie Schletter is? She hasn't been mentioned so far. See below.

Annie Schletter papers

https://archives.yale.edu/repositories/11/resources/756

Scope and Contents

The Annie Schletter papers consist of correpondence, writings, printed ephemera, and photographs related to Annie Schletter and her family, including Pauline Schletter and Percy Schletter, and span the years 1757-1937. The papers are housed in three boxes (including 1 oversize box) and are organized into four series: Correspondence, Writings of Others, Printed Ephemera, and Photographs.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Saturday 20 June 20 23:33 BST (UK)

Found her.

Annie Schletter (1858-1944) was an English actress active in London during World War I. She was the sister of Pauline Schletter (b. 1851), a translator. Percy Schletter (1855-1922), a colonel in The King's Liverpool Regiment, was also related, probably their brother.

https://snaccooperative.org/ark:/99166/w62r4bmr

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Sunday 21 June 20 00:36 BST (UK)
An extract of a review of a play Annie Schletter was in.


"The House of Peril"
By Horace Annesley Vachell from the novel by Mrs Belloc Lowndes.
Produced at The Queen's Theatre, March 1919.

The most satisfying thing in the play was the acting of Miss Annie Schletter as '"Madame" Wachner' of the Chalet des Muguets, an extraordinarily clever study of the doting Hausfrau, much busied about the service of her lord. Mr. Norman McKinnel as 'Wachner' easily contrived to convey the typically Teuton blend of brutishness, and domestic sentimentality, combined with the heavy playfulness which by a curious delusion, ineradicably racial, is mistaken over there for humour. "Ja, ja," he says complacently, "I have the humour-sense."
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Sunday 21 June 20 10:18 BST (UK)
David,

In response to your post #126 regarding Fenni's place of death, I agree that it does seem odd. I have read elsewhere online that she died in Nice on 29 July 1896. But that is probably even further away.

Who would have arranged to transport her remains to the Ouderkerk? Perhaps even stranger is that she does not appear to have been buried next to her husband Isaac.

https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/m.shtml (https://www.dutchjewry.org/portuguese_israelite_cemetery/m.shtml)

You could always contact the cemetery (info@bethhaim.nl) and request a clarification.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Sunday 21 June 20 11:41 BST (UK)
Annie's wartime work organising over 200 concerts for the Red Cross.

https://vad.redcross.org.uk/Card?fname=Annie&sname=schletter&id=184500&first=true&last=true
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Sunday 21 June 20 21:59 BST (UK)
Sir Claude Phillips, the first Keeper of the Wallace Collection, was probably the most distinguished son of Robert Abraham Phillips and Helen Levy.  Here is his Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Phillips
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Sunday 21 June 20 22:58 BST (UK)
Helen Levy's brother, Joseph Moses Levy, was known nationally as the successful proprietor of the Daily Telegraph.  I realise we are getting slightly off-piste here but I was not expecting to find a press baron in the family and thought you might be interested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Moses_Levy
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Monday 22 June 20 07:55 BST (UK)
That is interesting. However did you make the connection?

Just goes to show that we shouldn't neglect the collateral lines.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Monday 22 June 20 11:32 BST (UK)
Hi All

Fanij Phillips death registration in Amsterdam show husband as Isaac Mendes de Leon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WMYM-MJW2
 
The Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939D-MK92-Y?i=929&cc=2020117&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AWMYM-MJW2

Having trouble reading the Dutch for other words
Geboren - born Abergavenny
Overledene - deceased
Onbekend - unknown
Ovarleden - pased away
ouders- parents

Other Mendes de Leon of this and oher families

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.surname=mendes%20de%20leon&f.recordCountry=Netherlands&count=50&offset=0&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on


The Annely Frances  name was carried down in the daughter of Maurice Arthur de Leon's daughter. She  - Fanny Annelie Mendes de Leon aged 20 born 1891, got married in Amsterdam 1911 to Robert Henry Kauffman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLMG-57W6
Her birth https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HX-N6HW

She died in Canada
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Monday 22 June 20 12:41 BST (UK)
From my minimal Dutch, I can see that she died at "Oosteinde ? 12". Oosteinde is a street in Amsterdam.

The registration goes on to say that she was born in Abergavenny in Wales and that the names of her parents were unknown.

Good find.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 23 June 20 18:41 BST (UK)
Found this on Leopold Maurice Phillips son of Abraham Phillips and Sarah Watkins.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 23 June 20 21:41 BST (UK)
https://www.gardnermuseum.org/experience/collection/33288

Photograph of Claude Phillips (see link).
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 23 June 20 22:51 BST (UK)
https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/camden-town-group/sir-claude-phillips-art-exhibitions-the-camden-town-group-r1104249

Sir Claude Phillips, ‘Art Exhibitions. The Camden Town Group’
The Daily Telegraph, 14 December 1911, p.16.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 24 June 20 08:10 BST (UK)
Hello all,

Leonard - just to clarify. Abraham's wife's maiden name was not Watkins. Sarah Phillips (mn Watkins) died 2 years before Abraham's widow. See my post here https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832032.msg6976051#msg6976051 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832032.msg6976051#msg6976051).
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 24 June 20 10:30 BST (UK)
Hi All
My computer crashed last night- must be all his info.  I agree Justin the will can't be that of Sarah Phillips because Abraham's wife Sarah Phillips died in 1849 and the will is dated 1847.

I had trouble finding Sarah's son Leopold on the 1841 census. and in view of the will above, maybe the entry for the Sarah in Tudor street Abergavenny may be the wrong one? Could the family may have moved on by then? 

Not sure what the date was of the notice re Leopold Maurice Phillips that Leonard posted yesterday evening, but it does list Pontypool as a previous address. 

I know Pontypool is nowhere near Birmingham, but there is this 1841 census entry for a Sarah aged 50, Leopold 19 and a Henrietta all Independent (no needing an occupation) all born outside of Warwickshire. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBR-PK4. I did wonder if this could be them, but I don't recall a Henrietta mentioned as a daughter.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 24 June 20 10:56 BST (UK)
This is Sarah Phillips's will gives her address as Cockspur street (matches previous address of the census found). Mentions two unmarried daughters Henrietta (I think) and Rosetta and appoints her three sons Robert Abraham Philips, William Benjamin Phillips and Phillip Abraham Phillips as executors (Leopold had already died). Sorry I only have a link to this from Ancestry, but the info and date in Prerogative of Canterbury Index is:

Name   Sarah Phillips
Probate Date   25 Apr 1849
Residence   Middlesex, England
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 24 June 20 10:58 BST (UK)
Our posts crossed ... too slow typing ...

I think you've found them, Sam. Interestingly, I cannot find 1142/31 on ancestry even when I browse through St. Martin, Birmingham.

Henrietta and Rosetta were recorded together at 31 Cockspur Street in 1851
Henrietta was recorded with her brother William and niece, Pauline Schletter, in 1881

It makes absolute sense that the family were in Birmingham in 1841, in proximity to Martin Schletter, Helen's future husband. Where was Helen, I wonder?

The name Philip Abraham Phillips has come up many times in searches I have done. It always struck me as very likely that he was Abraham's son, but it's good to get confirmation.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 24 June 20 11:47 BST (UK)
Henrietta Phillips died 21 Sep at 1902 of 42 Marine Parade Brighton, spinster . Probate London 8 January  to  Maurice Arthur Mendes de Leon Esq. Effects £1088 14s 10d

1851 Census William b Phillips lodging 65 Princess street Charing Cross – commercial clerk  born 1816
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNK-6KS

The 1841  Census for Sarah, Henrietta and Leopold is at : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBR-PKC
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 24 June 20 14:11 BST (UK)
Some more info on the Phillips brothers, who seemed to have designed medals and a Royal Frame

Phillips Brothers of Cockspur street Goldmsiths https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/people/cp110197/phillips-brothers-and-sons

They made the Star, order of St. John medal, & one miniature awarded to Dr. George Shuttleworth
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co74651/star-order-of-st-john-medal-awarded-to-dr-geor-medals

1843 Listing for Phillips Bros in Directory https://www.londonwiki.co.uk/London1843/London1843P8.shtml

and relating to art - https://theframeblog.com/tag/cockspur-street/
Sow the Egyptian frame attributed to the Phillips Brothers. Under image of Royal Charter Stamp with the Brothers' name and address, it has some info on the their family:
"The only clue which it offers is the label on the backboard, of ‘Phillips,/23 Cockspur St/ London’, beneath the Royal crown. This is the label of the jewellers, Phillips Brothers, also known as Robert Phillips, founded by Robert and his brother Magnus at some point before 1839. According to the 1841 census, Magnus was much older than Robert (40 to his 26), and was classified as a silversmith, whilst Robert was a watch maker.  Magnus died in 1847, and the 1851 census records Robert, by now 36, as having been born in Abergavenny, Monmouth, and describes him as a goldsmith and jeweller.  Magnus’s place in the business is later filled by Robert’s son, Alfred (born 1845/46). In 1869 the name of the firm changes to Phillips Brothers & Son to reflect Alfred’s becoming a partner with his father; he takes over completely in 1884, Robert having died in 1881[2]. This means that the label (unless slightly out of date, which may be unlikely on a Royal commission), gives an end date for the frame of 1869, because of the name change; the Prince’s tour itself giving an earliest date of summer, 1862."
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 24 June 20 14:39 BST (UK)
Surely Magnus was the "M. Phillips, 25, watchmaker" recorded with Rosetta and Fanny in 1841 in Spring Garden, Charing Cross

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pn3/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pn3/)

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 24 June 20 15:22 BST (UK)
Yes Justin you're right, that's probably him.

His brothers William and Robert are at 32 Cockspur street https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQJ7-N5D (not sure if we already had that)

Magnus died in 1847 and a detah notice confirms him as a son of Abraham Phillips - Mr Magnus Phillips, of Cockspur street, second son of the late Mr Abraham Phillips esq, formerly of of Abergavenny – At Hereford road, Westbourne grove        In:Oxford Journal 14 August 1847. P.4
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 02:18 BST (UK)
I got Sarah Watkins form Sam. We now saying that's incorrect?

Sarah dies, as Justin says in 1847,
Sarah wife of late Abraham Phillips Esq of Abergavenny. She died aged 62 in Cockspur street London died on 7 March 1849 reported in Sun (London) 10 Mar 1849, p.8 
She left a will (prerogative of Cantebury - online). In this she names a nephew John Morgan of Nantyglo - could be the one that's in the same schedule of one of the censuses.Also names William Watkins,  the son of her late brotheralso named William Watkins. So her maiden name must have been WATKINS. Also names a brother Gilbert Watkins and her sister Mary teh wife of George Morgan, Joyce Watkins the widow of her late brother  Thomas Watkins, names John ?? Watkins as sole executor and adds in a codicil that she leaves items to her niece Hannah Watkins dughter of her brother Benjamin. There are some other names earlier in the will, which I'm having difficulty seeing online. Sarah Phillips  Probate Date 27 Apr 1847
Residence   Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales. The codicil was added just a few dies before her death which was apparently in Cockspur street Fulham.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 02:36 BST (UK)
https://www.whistler.arts.gla.ac.uk/correspondence/people/biog/?bid=Schl_A&initial=S

Annie Schletter relationship with James McNeill Whistler (11 July 1834 - 17 July 1903), artist.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Thursday 25 June 20 10:30 BST (UK)
Quote from: LeonardRCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 02:18 BST (UK)
I got Sarah Watkins form Sam. We now saying that's incorrect?

Sarah dies, as Justin says in 1847,
Sarah wife of late Abraham Phillips Esq of Abergavenny. She died aged 62 in Cockspur street London died on 7 March 1849 reported in Sun (London) 10 Mar 1849, p.8 
She left a will (prerogative of Canterbury - online). In this she names a nephew John Morgan of Nantyglo - could be the one that's in the same schedule of one of the censuses.Also names William Watkins,  the son of her late brotheralso named William Watkins. So her maiden name must have been WATKINS. Also names a brother Gilbert Watkins and her sister Mary teh wife of George Morgan, Joyce Watkins the widow of her late brother  Thomas Watkins, names John ?? Watkins as sole executor and adds in a codicil that she leaves items to her niece Hannah Watkins dughter of her brother Benjamin. There are some other names earlier in the will, which I'm having difficulty seeing online. Sarah Phillips  Probate Date 27 Apr 1847
Residence   Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales. The codicil was added just a few dies before her death which was apparently in Cockspur street Fulham.

Yes Leonard the above is incorrect. This is not Sarah Phillips. It is the Sarah Phillips of Tudor street Abergavenny on the 1841 census which is also not the correct 1841 census entry for the Sarah we are seeking.. We assumed she must have died in Abergavenny, but the 1847 will above confirms that the Sarah at Tudor street is not the right one. The 1841 census entry for Warwickshire could I mentioned a few posts ago be the correct one.


The correct will for Sarah Phillips

The correct Sarah Phillips married to Abraham Phillips did write a will and she died in 1849 see Prerogative of Canterbury link on Ancestry (or otherwise look up Sarah Phillips with a probate date of 25 Apr 1849 at Middlessex, England),

In this will the Sarah Phillips gives her address as Cockspur street, names her two unmarried daughters Henrietta and Rosetta and names her 3 sons William Benjamin Phillips, Robert Abraham Phillips, Philip Abraham Phillips as executors.   


https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=zVY4786&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5111&gsfn=sarah&gsln=phillips&gsfn_x=NP_NN_NIC&gsln_x=NN&msydy=1849&msydm=4&msydd=25&msddy=1849&new=1&rank=1&uidh=av2&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=36&fh=0&h=393139&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=739168a151b5bfe00035afd15cc7ab9f
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 15:02 BST (UK)
Okay, cool, thanks
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 15:22 BST (UK)

Mordecai Phillips grandson.


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/27919/page/3967/data.pdf

MARK SILVERSTON, Deceased.
Pursuant to the Statute, 22nd and 23rd Victoria,
chapter 35.
 NOTICE is hereby given,  that all creditors and
persons having any claims or demands against
the estate of Mark Silverston, late of 21, Tavistock Square, in the county of Middlesex, deceased (who died on the 21st day of April, 1906, and whose will was proved by Maurice Silverston, Henry Salaman Harris, and Jacob Adolphus Davis, three of the executors therein named, pn the 8th day of M,iy, 1906, in the Principal Registry of the Probate Division of the High Court of Justice, power being reserved to Jacob Silverston, the other executor named in the said will, to prove the same, which be subsequently did on the 28th day of May, 1906), are hereby required to send in the particulars of their claims and demands to us, the undersigned, as Solicitors to the said executors, on or before the first day of July, 1906; and notice is hereby also given, that after that day the said executors will proceed to distri­bute the assets of the deceased amongst the parties entitled thereto, having regard only to the claims of which the said executors shall then have notice ; and that they will not be liable for the assets, or any part thereof, so distributed, to any person of whose debt or claim they shall not then have had notice.-Da.ted this 31st day of May, 1906.

H. S. HARRIS and CO., 63, Coleman-street London, E.C., Solicitors for the said Executors
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 15:47 BST (UK)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/21/world/europe/london-stockbrokers.html

1895: London Stockbrokers Appear in Court
Four men were accused of causing a commotion in the British capital.

Mordecai Phillips great grandson, I think, and my my 3rd cousin twice removed.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 15:49 BST (UK)
Alfred Silverston.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 25 June 20 16:31 BST (UK)

Mordecai Phillips great grandsons.

RESIDENCE: 31, Allen Rd Hornsey, Middlesex in 1891 UK Census

ALGERNON SILVERSTON b 1872 aged 19

Montague Silverston b. 1868 aged 23

Mark Silverston b. 1866 aged 25

Jack Silverston AKA John b. 1865 aged 26

Jennie Silverston b. 1861 aged 30. She's married to one of the brothers possibly Mark Silverston.


https://www.rootspoint.com/record/1891-UK-Census/Montague-Silverston-1868-St-Pancras-London-Hornsey/579fb704-bf0d-4ed9-9df0-8e3b041f5002/
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 29 June 20 05:44 BST (UK)
Charlotte Mosely daughter of Jacob A. Mosely and Abigail Phillips.

I've found a Charlotte Molesly on Geni then came across this thread, any thoughts?

https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/threads/83191-FREDERIC-ABRAHAM-PHILLIPS-EVELINA-SOLOMON
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 29 June 20 05:46 BST (UK)
She married Joseph Phillips.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 29 June 20 05:49 BST (UK)
Frederick Abraham Phillips is her son.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Monday 29 June 20 06:15 BST (UK)
More. https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/threads/83211-HENRY-FREDERIC-PHILLIPS-JULIA-S-MANDELSON
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 05:27 BST (UK)

I'm getting Harriet Rahmah Cohen as an alternative for Harriet Cohen. Does that sound plausible, what does Rahmah mean?

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Tuesday 30 June 20 07:09 BST (UK)
Where have you seen that name? Whose daughter was she?

I have identified the following three children of Joseph and Charlotte Phillips; cir. = circumcised. There were probably more.

Joseph Phillips (Mosheh-Yosef b. Mosheh-Yosef), cir. 23 Sep 1836 at Love Street, Cripplegate

Philip Philips (Mosheh Reuben known as Zelig b. Mosheh-Yosef), cir. 12 Oct 1837 at Fore Street, Cripplegate, 1871c Paddington: unmarried member of stock exchange

Charlotte Helena Phillips, b. 1843 Haggerston, London, d. Q3 1910 Hampstead


 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Tuesday 30 June 20 07:31 BST (UK)
Harriet "Rahmah" - marrying David I Cohen Baltimore

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4eoeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=harriet+rahmah+phillips&source=bl&ots=Ai59SHBDJ5&sig=ACfU3U3n-PvmWKRo9h0M5oqkEU77l6cZcw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid1uPG9KjqAhVUt3EKHW_vD-sQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=harriet%20rahmah%20phillips&f=false
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 07:43 BST (UK)
Harriet Cohen (9 November 1801 – 27 July 1889)   was the daughter of Jacob and Catherine Cohen. Her surname was Cohen not Rahmah (see PDF). I've also found the wedding notice for Catherine and David's wedding in the Cambrian which took place in Swansea in 1830 and it states she is the daughter of Jacob Cohen. As far as I know Rahmah is a muslim girls name. This looks like an error to me.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 07:45 BST (UK)
Wedding notice for David I Cohen and Catherine Cohen.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 08:08 BST (UK)
Thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 08:09 BST (UK)
I've updated my data base.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 23:47 BST (UK)
Thanks, Sam for taking a lot at the Rahmah question.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 30 June 20 23:57 BST (UK)
Solomon Moses Selig Phillips
My 4th great-grandfather

Do you think Solomon converted to Christianity? St Botolph's Aldgate is CoE. Any ideas what a Public Minister is? Or is the reference to the PM of St Botolph's Aldgate not Solomon but someone else?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Botolph%27s_Aldgate

National Archives
Catalogue description
Will of Moses Selig otherwise Solomon Phillips, Public Minister of Saint Botolph...

Reference:   PROB 11/1580/475
Description:   Will of Moses Selig otherwise Solomon Phillips, Public Minister of Saint Botolph Aldgate, Middlesex
Date:   26 May 1816
Held by:   The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:   Public Record(s)
Closure status:   Open Document, Open Description

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D568970
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Sam Swift on Wednesday 01 July 20 00:52 BST (UK)
It is his will. He is listed as paying land tax in 1774 & 1755 at Aldgate ward, London, not far from the Synagogue (which is also listed). His name is listed on pages that have other Jews. I  think the entry in Kew National Archive means he was a minister and of St Botoloph Aldgate rather than a minister of St Botoloph if you see what I mean. He lived in that area and was happened also to be a minister (that may be how they referred to Jewish equivalent of a an anglican church minister at the time.

Aldgate synagogue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Synagogue_of_London

Synagogue is / was near the church https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Synagogue+de+Bevis+Marks,+Heneage+Lane,+London/St.+Botolph+Without+Aldgate,+Aldgate+High+St,+London+EC3N+1AB/@51.513981,-0.0795759,17z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4876034cd7f57247:0x82a9a7ff2f26e26!2m2!1d-0.0789906!2d51.5145702!1m5!1m1!1s0x4876034ca6df5251:0x344e76069866af93!2m2!1d-0.0764628!2d51.5140611!3e2
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 01 July 20 01:03 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Sam. I'm looking for portraits of my relatives from the 1700s - 1800s. Is there somewhere were I can start looking or is it just pot luck? I've found Sir Claude Phillips my 2nd cousin three times removed at the Gardener Museum and the NPG. 

https://www.gardnermuseum.org/experience/collection/33288
https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp03544/sir-claude-phillips
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 01 July 20 07:46 BST (UK)
Wills at TNA are always catalogued as "Name + occupation (if any) + place of residence". These are always key elements in the opening line of the wills.

Moses Selig was the cantor (Hebrew: shaliach tsibur ve-ne’eman) of the Hambro Synagogue which was next to the Church of St. Katherine Coleman in Magpye Alley (later called Church Row) running between Fenchurch Street and Crutched Friars; a stone's throw from London's Fenchurch Street Station.



Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 01 July 20 07:49 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 01 July 20 13:06 BST (UK)
While trying (unsuccessfully) to find a picture or drawing of the Hambro Synagogue, I came across this link to download the laws of the Hambro (published in 1844). It provides interesting insights. Joseph Phillips is listed as an "auditor". The position occupied by his father was called "Reader" (khazan)

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL7885452W/Laws_of_the_Congregation_of_the_Hambro_Synagogue_Church_Row_Fenchurch_Street_London (https://openlibrary.org/works/OL7885452W/Laws_of_the_Congregation_of_the_Hambro_Synagogue_Church_Row_Fenchurch_Street_London)
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 01 July 20 22:22 BST (UK)
Thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 07 July 20 20:53 BST (UK)
I have been re-reading some of the earlier posts with the benefit of my (now) better understanding of the family and there is a loose end that I would like to follow up.  In Reply #80 Justin said:

"Only yesterday, I discovered that Joseph Phillips had previously been married to Frances Friedeberg, i.e. Esther's sister. Frances died or was buried on 6 Sep 1834. Her address was Merthyr Tydfil !!"

Could someone help me with the source of this information?  Do we know if Joseph and Frances had any children?  I assume that they lived in London because of Joseph's work there so why did Frances die in Merthyr? (although it is on a route between family in Swansea and family in Abergavenny.)  What else do we know about Esther and Frances's family?

Regards,

David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:03 BST (UK)
Hi David,

I have Joseph Phillips married to Charlotte Mosely, he's niece. So you're saying that was his second married? Who is Esther? I've not heard that name before. Where did you get the information about Joseph Phillips' marriage to Frances Friedeberg? Has her name come up in this thread before?

Thanks

Leonard 
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:12 BST (UK)
Dear Leonard,

What little information I have about Frances as Joseph's first wife is earlier in this thread towards the end of reply #80.  I am keen to lean more myself.

Regards, David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:17 BST (UK)
Okay, cool. I'll reread it, thanks.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:21 BST (UK)
Charlotte Helena Phillips, b. 1843 Haggerston, London, d. Q3 1910 Hampstead. Who's she the daughter of?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:23 BST (UK)
No, it's fine. Joseph and Charlotte Phillips, got it.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Tuesday 07 July 20 21:23 BST (UK)
Dear All,

I have been looking at some images of the jewelry of the Phillips Brothers on the web.  It is stunning stuff at eye-watering prices.  And I discovered that he had top notch customers.

Jewels discovered in Thebes in 1859 were exhibited in London in 1863.  At much the same time the Prince of Wales (the future King Edward VII) visited Thebes.  On his return he married Princess Alexandra of Denmark.  He commissioned Robert Phillips to create a suite of jewels based on the Egyptian discoveries as a wedding gift to his bride.  In a marble bust of the Princess of Wales by Mary Thornycroft the only ornament that she is wearing is a scarab brooch by Robert Phillips.

With his skill and the status that must have come with supplying Royal customers he was very well set up by the mid 1860s.

David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Tuesday 07 July 20 22:05 BST (UK)
Who's the parents of Robert (Adam or Abraham) Phillips (1810-1880/1) and Magnus Albert Phillips. Phillip Bros.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 14:52 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

I think I missed the significance of this when you first mentioned it:

"I'd say there is a high likelihood of David Cohen being related to Jacob. Did you also know that Mordecai's daughter Henrietta married Moses (son of Abraham) Cohen in the Hambro synagogue in 1823?"

Who was Abraham was he related to Jacob Cohen husband of Catherine Cohen née Phillips? I have Solomon Phillips sister Susanna Selig married to a Casper Abraham Cohen, he was the son of Abraham Aron Cohen (1758–1817) and the brother of Moses Abraham Cohen is this the Moses you're talking about?   

Thanks

Leonard




Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:43 BST (UK)
Hello all,

I hope the attached family trees make things clearer for everyone. Part 2 in next post.

The wills of various members of the Friedeberg family are the key source of information. They have been summarised on the website SynagogueScribes.

What is your source, Leonard, for the sister of Solomon Phillips?

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:45 BST (UK)
Part 1b
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:46 BST (UK)
Part 2

A pdf file generated from my Word file is too big to post here
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:50 BST (UK)
I was looking on Geni I know not great, but I went with it until otherwise proved wrong.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 15:52 BST (UK)
These breakdowns are amazing, thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 20 16:07 BST (UK)
I have found another source here:

https://gw.geneanet.org/herediasittig?lang=en&n=cohen&oc=0&p=moses+abraham (https://gw.geneanet.org/herediasittig?lang=en&n=cohen&oc=0&p=moses+abraham)

Susanne Selig and Caspar Abraham Cohen were Dutch, whereas Solomon Phillips was of German origin. The Hambro synagogue was established by German Jews and its original members were all of German origin.

Susanne Selig seemingly died before Dutch Jews were compelled to adopt fixed surnames during the Napoleonic rule (1812, I think). Therefore, Selig was probably her father's given name. Solomon, however, was the son of a Samuel.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 16:10 BST (UK)
Oh cool, so not related then?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 08 July 20 16:19 BST (UK)
No, there is nothing to suggest that Susanne Selig and Solomon Phillips were related.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 16:20 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justine.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Wednesday 08 July 20 16:21 BST (UK)
Typo, sorry, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 09 July 20 09:19 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

Why is Blumah, Hinde and Rivqeh in brackets? Rosetta (Blumah) Cohen, Matilda (Hinde) Cohen, Rebecca (Rivqeh) Cohen.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 09 July 20 09:22 BST (UK)
They are the Hebrew names
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 09 July 20 09:23 BST (UK)
Okay, so not middle names, thanks
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 09 July 20 10:10 BST (UK)
In Jewish genealogy, it is important, if not essential, to establish the Hebrew/Yiddish names of individuals.

Full Hebrew/Yiddish names as inscribed on gravestones or entered in Jewish BMD registers are in the patronymic form, i.e. X son/daughter of Y + tribal affiliation, if any (e.g. kohanim or levi'im).

Given names are always passed down through the generations; children are named after deceased relatives. A pattern of names used by siblings can give an indication of the names of the sibling parents.

On this basis, I am fairly confident that Solomon Phillips' wife was called Tsherneh in Yiddish. I also suspect that Jacob Cohen's mother was called Tsiporah.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 09 July 20 10:13 BST (UK)
"Jacob Cohen's mother was called Tsiporah."

Because of the name of one of his daughters?
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 09 July 20 11:40 BST (UK)
Hi Justin,

How do these names connect to Solomon Phillips? Some are new to me some I've seen but not been able to establish a relationship (The PDF page you posted I find a little confusing, I'm familiar with Esther Friedeberg, d. 1847 Finsbury Place South, bur. 30 Nov.):

Chaya Phillips, d. < 1847

Joseph Cohen, b. unknown, clerk of the Swansea Synagogue, d. 21 Aug 1813 Swansea (fell from his chair)

Zaleg Wolff Cohen, b. c1795 outside UK, 1841c jeweller in Swansea, d. Q3 1847 Swansea + Lydia Unknown, b. 1807-11 outside county, d. Q3 1863 Swansea

David Lezer Cohen (David b. Eliezer-Lezer ha-Kohen), m. 5 Mar 1811 GS

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Thursday 09 July 20 15:09 BST (UK)
Jacob Cohen's daughters, Rebecca and Rosetta, had daughters named Zipporah (Herew: Tsiporah). It's just speculation on my part.

I have just proved my other piece of speculation to be correct. The link below reports the burial of
"Csarna, wife of Mr. Zelig, cantor of our [Hambro] community" buried on 19 Oct 1806. The same record is romanised as Czarna elsewhere. The name is clearly meant to be Tsherneh.

https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=26704 (https://synagoguescribes.com/blog/person-details/?value=26704)

Joseph Cohen and Zaleg Wolff Cohen were simply other Cohens who lived in Swansea in the early 19th century. I have recorded their names in my notes in case I can establish a link to your Jacob.

The same applies to David Lezer Cohen. I'm speculating that there may be a connection between your Jacob Cohen and the Friedeberg family.

Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Thursday 09 July 20 15:16 BST (UK)
Oh okay, thanks.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 10 July 20 13:21 BST (UK)
Justin, did you ever come across a Louis Cohen? I found him in a newspaper report in The Cambrian on the Swansea Synagogue donation drive among the names listed was Louis Cohen, I have no idea who this is, and my 2nd great aunt Matilda Cohen of Mumbles. I think she donated £1 something. I neglected to save the article.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: JustinL on Friday 10 July 20 18:00 BST (UK)
I found the list published in 1872. Mathilda's sisters, Rebecca Levy and Charlotte were also contributors.

The 1871 census recorded a 42-year-old Louis Cohen (b. Prussia) with his wife and four children.

There's nothing to suggest that he was related to your Cohen family.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 10 July 20 18:06 BST (UK)
Cool, thanks, Justin.
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: DavidM on Friday 24 July 20 19:29 BST (UK)
Today I visited the grave of Robert Abraham Phillips, the celebrated "art goldsmith" because I was still uncertain about his birth year.  I examined the lettering on the stone very carefully to make sure that the 1810 was not 1816 and I am sure it is not.  Only a partial transcription is given on the Billion Graves website so here is a full transcription.

IN LOVING MEMORY OF
ROBERT PHILLIPS
BORN MAY 25TH 1810   DIED APRIL 21 1881
HE SHALL ENTER INTO PEACE
                                      ISIAH CHAP LV11 V2

AND OF HELEN HIS WIFE
BORN JULY 28 1821   DIED JULY 1 1887
BLESSED ARE THE PURE IN HEART FOR THEY SHALL SEE GOD
                                                                                  ST MATT V

ALSO OF EUGENIE PHILLIPS THEIR DEARLY LOVED DAUGHTER
BORN 1ST FEBRUARY 1858    DIED 10TH MAY 1910
LOVE, SWEETNESS, GOODNESS, IN HER PERSON SHONE

SACRED TO THE MEMORY OF SIR CLAUDE PHILLIPS BA
BORN JANUARY 30TH 1846   DIED AUGUST 9TH 1924
GOD SHALL WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS FROM THEIR EYES

Does anyone know where Claude got his BA or what for?  If he had been to Oxford or Cambridge I would have expected an MA.

David
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 24 July 20 19:37 BST (UK)
Phillips, Claude, Sir

After initial education in Germany and France, Phillips graduated from London University with both a B. A. and a master's degree. He studied law, joined the Inner Temple (a professional society licensing barristers), and admitted to the bar in 1883.

Link here https://arthistorians.info/phillipsc
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: LCohen on Friday 24 July 20 19:48 BST (UK)
More Sir Claude Phillips links:

http://www.artnet.com/artists/max-beerbohm/sir-claude-phillips-going-on-H43A-4a0jmHKxG3Yv9NFHw2
https://www.gardnermuseum.org/experience/collection/33288
https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitExtended/mw04989/Sir-Claude-Phillips
https://www.tate.org.uk/art/research-publications/camden-town-group/sir-claude-phillips-art-exhibitions-the-camden-town-group-r1104249
https://www.artfund.org/supporting-museums/art-weve-helped-buy/artwork/2230/la-legende-de-joseph-sir-claude-phillips


Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: leesofoxford on Tuesday 13 June 23 13:35 BST (UK)
Quote from: LCohen on Tuesday 02 June 20 11:27 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm looking for any information on Jacob and Catherine Cohen (née Philips) both born 1773 and migrated to Swansea: Catherine 1773 – 17 February 1865, Jacob Cohen 1773 – March 1819. Jacob and Catherine are my third great-grandparents their son Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen is my twice great-grandfather.

Children of Jacob and Catherine Cohen
We have a clock made by Jacob Cohan (Cohen) of Swansea that is dated Feb 19th 1797. I will try to add some pictures for you.
Kind regards
James

Reuben Zaleg Felipe (Philip) Cohen (1810-1881), Dr Douglas Cohen (1806-1892) (unmarried), Esdaile Philip Cohen (1792-1856), Charlotte Cohen (1815-1885) (unnamed), Harriet Cohen (1801 - 1889), Rosetta Cohen (1800-1879) married name Marks, Samuel Philip Cohen (1797-1858), Matilda Cohen (circa born 1805).

Catherine Cohen had a sister Abigail Moseley or Mosely also of Swansea, Abigail married Jacob A. Moseley a watch and clockmaker. She also had a brother Mordecai Phillips. Catherine's father was Solomon Moses Selig Phillips AKA Salomon Phillips AKA Moses Selig. Her mother was Vogeltje Moses. Her paternal grandparents were Jacob Selig and Esther Jacobs.

Any information would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Leonard
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: sarah on Tuesday 13 June 23 21:12 BST (UK)
Hi Lee,

You need to click on the reply button instead of the quote button. ;)

Regards

Sarah
Title: Re: Any Information on the family Jacob and Catherine Cohen, Wales, Swansea
Post by: Mart56 on Monday 26 June 23 14:42 BST (UK)
I have an article on www.neathantiquariansociety.co.uk on the Jews of Neath.  If you look down the side panel you will see 'articles of members'.  Trawl through there and you will see the article in which there is reference to Jacob and his family.  If you can add anything to what I have written then of course I would be delighted to hear from you.