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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Berwickshire => Topic started by: mattfrombann on Tuesday 09 June 20 14:06 BST (UK)
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This puzzle may relate to one of the many schisms in Scottish Presbyterian Church but I'm hoping someone with local knowledge might be able to explain.
Both details from OPRs on Scotland's People.
Church of Scotland , Eyemouth , 1847
" Jane, daughter of Robert Bryce, paper maker and of Agnes McGechan his wife, was born on the seventh day of June Eighteen Hundred and Forty Seven years and was baptized by the Rev Mr Pearson Eyemouth"
Next entry
"Robert , son of Robert Bryce, paper maker , and of Agnes McGechan his wife , was born on the twentieth day of March Eighteen Hundred and Fifty One years and was baptized by the Rev Mr Pearson , Eyemouth
ALSO in the register for Eyemouth United Secession Church, 1847
"Robert and Agnes Bryce child born June 7th 1847 and baptized Jane by the Rev Thomas Pearson July 25th 1847"
The only other known baptism for a child of Robert and Agnes is in Ayton OPR for :-
"James, lawful son of Robert Bryce Papermaker , residing at Millbank and Agnes McGechan his Spouse was born on Oct 20th 1844 and baptised by the Rev Mr Ure Minister in Ayton"
From the 1851 census , James is the eldest and there is a further sibling Alexander, born circa 1850
Robert and Agnes and family are living with her parents at Eyemouth Mill.
I have been unable to locate a marriage record for Robert and Agnes. Robert was born c1816 in Kilpatrick , Dumbartonshire.
James married Marion Wright in Ayton 24/11/1865 and had ten children, Agnes, Jane Burglass, Elizabeth , Robert Alexander, James - married Jane Tait 22/4/1897 with son James 28/1/1909 , John, William , Marian, Grace Bone , and Peter.
I am bemused by the double baptism entry for Jane Bryce.
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Hi ,
Not sure if you have looked at this record ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYTM-6PL
The start of official registration in Scotland ,1855 certificates should contain a fair bit of info.(Scotlandspeople)
You might get a marriage date from that :-\
https://www.scottishindexes.com/61transcript.aspx?houseid=72702032
ev
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Thanks Ev.
Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees :). Should have spotted the 1855 sooner. Unfortunately the birth entry isn't quite as informative as a death one , but it does reveal that Elizabeth was the fifth child of whom 2 brothers and 1 sister were still living. It is not until the birth of Grace Bone Bryce in 1863 that the parent's marriage details are finally revealed - 1844 February 1st at Lamairton(?) Fell (Don't know the area so not sure what the word is).
Which just leaves the puzzle of the two OPR entries
Matt
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The double baptism record is nothing to get excited about. In theory the Church of Scotland was supposed to keep a record of all baptisms in the parish, not only those baptised in the C of S. This mostly didn't happen, but sometimes you do come across a C of S clerk whose register contains records of baptisms in other denominations.
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If that was Lamberton Toll in Berwickshire they had a runaway irregular marriage. There is probably not a legal church record of it. Unless the local kirk session interrogated them about it afterwards, perhaps when bringing in the first child to be baptised. These kirk session records where they survive are generally unindexed and in a separate archive from the parish registers of baptism and marriages. They cannot yet be searched online, and have to be looked at in Edinburgh or via computer in a number of archive search rooms around Scotland.
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My GENUKI Mordington parish page (the parish containing Lamberton Toll) has more info about Lamberton Toll and links to further resources about marriages there.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/BEW/Mordington
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Viv
Thanks for that , and yes it is Lamberton Toll. I did wonder about the age difference (10 years) between bride and groom and was it a hint of a second marriage? Or maybe the bride's parents simply didn't approve of her marrying an older man ? Also what brought Robert all the way from Kilpatrick to Ayton? When everything eventually opens up again we may find the answer. Till then .....
Again, thanks to all.
Matt
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This thread is continued at https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832801
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If that was Lamberton Toll in Berwickshire they had a runaway irregular marriage. There is probably not a legal church record of it. Unless the local kirk session interrogated them about it afterwards, perhaps when bringing in the first child to be baptised. These kirk session records where they survive are generally unindexed and in a separate archive from the parish registers of baptism and marriages. They cannot yet be searched online, and have to be looked at in Edinburgh or via computer in a number of archive search rooms around Scotland.
In a somewhat amusing twist to the story, I have found that the Parents of Agnes: - Alexander McGechan and Grace Bone, themselves had an irregular marriage, Aug 12th 1823, at "the Union Bridge on the River Tweed", although they did later get Rev Christison of Foulden parish to confirm the union. Alexander and Grace and Agnes, regularly, and for no apparent reason , swapped "McGechen" for "McGavin" on census/BDM registrations.
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Rev Thomas Pearson ( in my family tree) was one of the secessionists who withdrew from the established Church of Scotland in 1843 to be part of the Free Church of Scotland. Possible reason for the double entries - at least one of them could be expected to be offically recognised.