RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: warncoort on Thursday 18 June 20 06:22 BST (UK)
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Folks,
Thomas Parker Payne (b 1888 New York)marries Lily Beenham (b 1887 Camberwell) on 10 Sep 1911 at All Saints,North Peckham,they have five children between 1912 and 1924.
I can not find them on 1939 register nor deaths which can be confirmed.
Hoping someone can see what i have missed.
Marriage record shows address for both parties as 21 Summer Rd.
Eric
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Just a thought - could this birth have been mistranscribed??
Births Jun Qtr 1918
Frank Payne mmn Banham Camberwell 1d 1139
Kay
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That fills a hole in the family.
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Try looking for him in Camberwell in 1939 with other siblings - we aren't allowed to post detials :-\
Kay
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Depends whether you use Ancestry or F M P - Frank is still redacted on Ancestry.
Have you got exact dates of birth for any of them to help find some deaths? Or is it just parents' deaths you want?
Names and ages might be 'out' by time of death, and births from previous year registered in the next year. If ages from marriage certificate, not always accurate.
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There is a death in Camberwell that fits with 1939 information for Thomas. Also will, if he was living at Colyton Road at death.
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The marriage in 1911 does not use 'Parker' in his name? When does he record it?
He is recorded as 25 in 1911, so born 1885/1886 - where does his birth year of 1888 come from?
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His marriage in 1911 gives his Father as William, deceased. William is a labourer, Thomas is a carman.
There is a baptism for a Thomas Payne with father William in Southwark on 26 February, 1886, and mother Mary Ann, father is a carman.
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Depends whether you use Ancestry or F M P - Frank is still redacted on Ancestry.
Ancestry update their 1939 Register once per year.
FindMyPast update (I think?) monthly.
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There is a possible marriage here of Thomas's parents (looking for Parker middle name):
Marriages December quarter 1873
Mary Ann Longhurst St.Olave
William Parker Payne St.Olave
But then he would have been born in England not USA.
What does it say in censuses?
GRO just closed for maintenance so cannot check mmn.
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1901 census, if William has died and Mary Ann has remarried to Gardner, ancestry has children recorded as grandchildren, but think stepchildren
Wm Rd Gardner 48 Island of St Helena West African
Mary Ann Gardner 46 Islington
Jno Fk Gardner 4 son Bermondsey
Lucy E Payne 19 Bermondsey
Elizabeth A Payne 19 Bermondsey
Harriett L Payne 15 Bermondsey Added: GRO has as Payne/Longhurst
Thos P Payne 14 British subject USA
Samuel Gardner 77
Added:
Specified New York birth in 1891, when Mary Ann is widowed.
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Gardner/Payne marriage was in 1896.
Not yet seen John Frederick Gardner's birth, baptised 11 August 1897.
Added: Under Gardiner/Longhurst
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Birth as 1888 from transcribed records
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WQP-PPQ
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Marriage in Ontario 1913? Parents not quite correct.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pm4/
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?
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=70477&h=3200768&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gOe2265&_phstart=successSource
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Who knows?
http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1557145
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Have you found Thomas in 1911 census?
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Thank you to all for your responses.Mary Ann Longhurst is a descendant of William N Longhurst who married my great aunt,Phoebe Gibson, in Ballarat,Victoria,Australia in 1865 and this thread is just tying up loose ends.I will work through the leads and see where it takes me.
Eric
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My basic question is are you sure that it was Thomas Parker Payne who married Lily? Where did that information come from?
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Folks,
I made a huge mistake;when i entered this marriage i planned to make a notation as i was unsure it was my man.I have now found a 1913 marriage in Ontario to Emma Amelia Smith which matches the headstone.
My humble apologies to all for the wild goose chase but thanks for your efforts.
Eric