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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: nickcooper on Monday 13 July 20 20:50 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Could anyone identify this photo for me please? I've always thought it was my Grandfather and a friend but I've recently found that his father and uncle both served in the same regiment in the first world war. I'm lucky enough to still have the Brecknockshire cap badge, which looks the same as the one in the photo, would this have changed between ww1 and ww2?
My Great Grandfather and Uncle where both in the Brecons/Brecknock Battalion of the South Wales Borderers and ended up in India. Flicking through the medal/award rolls, there must have been around 10 pages of SWB men who 'drowned at sea en route'. Any idea on what happened? If a ship was sunk etc?
Would I benefit from ordering my grandfather's service records? Would I get more info than what I've got here? I do have a service record of sorts, it's an old A4 sheet which has been typewritten and filled in by hand that states his name, address, service number, units served and lists his service medals.
According to this it shows Units:
Brecknockshire Bn (07/03/1939)- Hence question regarding the photo!
3rd Monmouthshire Rgt,
10th Bn (Jan 1940) – I'm unable to see a 10th bn for Monmouthshire or Brecknockshire in ww2?
5th Bn (May 1941)
2nd Bn South Staffs Regt (1942)
One last question, on a ww1 pension card for a k.i.a family member, it shows him and his mother, but also another soldier's name? Any idea on why this would be the case?
Thanks!
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Flicking through the medal/award rolls, there must have been around 10 pages of SWB men who 'drowned at sea en route'. Any idea on what happened? If a ship was sunk etc?
Possibly the sinking of the Royal Edward troopship in 1915. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMT_Royal_Edward
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Re: One last question, on a ww1 pension card for a k.i.a family member, it shows him and his mother, but also another soldier's name? Any idea on why this would be the case?
One possibility is that he served in the army using an alias name. This may be confirmed by the Soldiers' Effects Register which would be raised using the alias name and his birth name written underneath.
Do you have the Medal Rolls etc, for this man? They may only use the alias name.
Tony
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They are certainly wearing the cap badge of the Monmouthshire Regiment which was the same in both wars.
This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouthshire_Regiment#Second_World_War explains the relationship between the Brecknockshire Battalion of the SWB and the Monmouthshire. Only his record would clarify the 10th and 5th neither of which, as you have seen , were battalions in either regiment in WW2. (1st Battalion SWB was in 10th Infantry Division).
MaxD
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As to date I'd say the photo was 1920's or 1930's. What are your thoughts Max?
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I'd agree. Collar badges and the type of SD cap put them post 1922 at the earliest.
If the 7/3/39 date represents when the grandfather joined then that would add up, WW1 type uniform still being worn at that time. 3rd Battalion of that date being a TA battalion.
MaxD
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Thanks for taking a look and confirming the uniforms. I think it might be worth sending away for his records to clarify a few things there.
In regards to the 2 names on the ww1 pension card, I've found another record for my family member, which states this other solders name under the heading "particulars of any man in respect of whom they said claimant has made a previous claim"
Would this indicate that mother made a claim for this other soldiers pension?
The son was kia in 1917 while this 2nd soldier, same regiment, died in 1920.
Cheers,
Nick.
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It would seem so on the face of it - what do you know about the 2nd man - can you give us his name and number?
MaxD
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Ahhhhh, might have solved this one myself. i was about to say i know nothing of the 2nd soldier, he's not appeared in my family tree.
My relation: Charles Edward Bather, SWB, No:27745
Mother: Annie Bather
2nd soldier: Charles Richard Phillips, SWB, No: 3145
It's been a while since I've gone over this side off the family so now looking through the 1911 census, Phillips, 14, is a visitor with the Bathers down in South Wales while two of the older Bather brothers are boarders with a Phillips family back up in London, where they originally came form. Looks like they would have been neighbours. I can only assume both families where close.
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C R Philips had served from 26 Jan 1915 until discharged sick on 10 Mar 1917. The medal record says he had served overseas, when discharged he was in 1st Reserve Battalion SWB (which had been 3/1st Brecknockshire) Battalion. As he didn't die until 1920, perhaps he stayed in Wales with the family?
MaxD