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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Vern Lack on Monday 20 July 20 07:18 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for the military records of a James Johnston Young. He was a Lieutenant in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers during WWI. He served and was wounded in France. Because there are so many J Young's who served in this war it has been difficult to find him even with a visit to Kew. ???Any suggestions please?
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One suggestion would be to click on the link 'report to moderator' and ask for this thread to be moved to the World War One sub-forum where the military experts may be able to help you.
Have you seen these websites?
https://royaldublinfusiliers.com/
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/royal-dublin-fusiliers
KG
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Where does your information come from?
James Johnston YOUNG..........Lieutenant Royal Dublin Fusiliers WWI...... wounded in France.
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Hi wivenhoe
Details from his daughters and sons along with his RSA headstone in New Zealand where he migrated to sometime after the war.
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Do you know his birth date? This could help indicate whether or not he may have joined before 1914.
Philip
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There are just 2 James Youngs RDF appearing on the MIC's neither an Officer.
There are no J or JJ Young's appearing either.
Does his headstone give a Battalion?
Was he born 1897 & died 1968 ?
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A James Johnston Young was commissioned from a cadet into the Royal Dublin Fusiliers dated 2 July 1918 (London Gazette). He had been 19/894 in the Royal Irish Rifles. He was posted to 3rd Battalion RDF. (Findmypast). 19/ prefix suggests 19 Battalion which did not service overseas and nor did 3rd Bn RDF.
A man of the same name had been commissioned also from an officer cadet unit into the Scottish Rifles dated April 1917. Went on to be promoted Lt in Nov 1918 (London Gazette)
As jim1 has said, no medal or further records found.
MaxD
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That's strange Max. I can see several men from these Batts. that were absorbed in to the 3rd.
on the MIC's. No transfer Batts. listed.
Looks like these men were transferred into these reserve Batt's after previous service with front line Batts.
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What appears to be his officer's record is at the National Archives, not digitised.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C747763
What was his date of birth?? When did he die?
There is also an officer's record still held by MoD with the date of birth 5 March 1893 and the personal number P 142748 - no further details except that he served in WW2.
MaxD
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Max D
Thanks for the response
It is interesting his headstone gives the following details:
1914-18 War, JJ Young, Lieutenant, 19/894, Royal Dublin Fusiliers,died 10 Jun 1968 Age 72.
He was born 24 Dec 1897. I have been offered other service numbers: 245733. Sometimes his surname was spelt with or without an "e".
I have a photograph of him in uniform wearing what looks like the RDF hat badge. Also another as a member of a football team with a ball, bearing the title 1st XV "B" Coy , Feb- Jun 1915 (could be 13 or 18)
A visit to Kew provided less information than you have offered. We even paid a researcher who was unable to find anything.Living in Australia makes it hard to research when some things aren't digitised. So thanks
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Jim1
This is the best I can offer.
1914-18 War, JJ Young, Lieutenant, 19/894, Royal Dublin Fusiliers,died 10 Jun 1968 Age 72.
He was born 24 Dec 1897. I have been offered other service numbers: 245733. Sometimes his surname was spelt with or without an "e".
Vern
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We can forget the 1893 date of birth man - just wanted to eliminate him.
The record I referred to is a long list from No 7 Officer Cadet School of men being commissioned on completion of their officer training. 19/894 JJ Young is listed as formerly Royal Irish Rifles, commissioned into the RDF 30 July 1918. This ties up with the London Gazette (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30823/supplement/9086). The record at the National Archives, which would include his soldier record, is almost certainly him. Officers didn't have regimental numbers so the family would have had only his 19/894 number (which is a soldier's number), not knowing that he would have "lost" that number on commissioning.
I said that both the 19th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and 3rd Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers didn't go overseas, that does not mean he didn't. While his 19/ prefix denotes 19 Battalion, he could well have served after training with another battalion.
So far though the search for a medal card (to explain the wounded bit) relating to either period of service in either regiment hasn't been successful - yet.
MaxD
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You can also forget the 2nd. service number as that belonged to someone else.
1st. XV would be a rugby team. B Coy. would be their Company. (Battalions had 4 Coys.)
Are you able to identify him & the date?
It would be irregular for an Officer to be in a rugby team made up of other ranks.
If the date is 1915 it would be RIR.
If it's 1918 it would have been prior to his commission.
Ideally you need his service record from Kew but it might be expensive as they charge per page.
The MOD record will cost £30 & may include his WW1 service which is probably the cheaper route.
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Ideally you need his service record from Kew but it might be expensive as they charge per page.
The MOD record will cost £30 & may include his WW1 service which is probably the cheaper route.
I may have inadvertently misled. The record held by MOD is the one with the 1893 date of birth and the personal number P142748. He was appointed Lt in the Black Watch in 1940 and transferred to the Pioneer Corps in 1942 (London Gazette).
Vern Lack - I have sent a PM with some thoughts about copying services.
MaxD
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Progress report.
The war diary of 6 Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers for January 1919 in Jemelle Belgium records on 31 January "2/Lt JJ Young to UK on leave". He returned to Belgium on 26 February 1919.
Vern - His first posting after commissioning (30 July 1918) is recorded as 3rd Battalion RDF, a reserve battalion in UK.. That is totally normal and he may never have set foot there as he would have been sent to France as soon as possible. 6th Battalion RDF had been in the Egypt/Palestine theatre and were sent to France in mid 1918, arriving at Serqueux on 16 July. They remained there until early August training then moved in stages towards the front lines where on 7 October they saw their first action since arrival.
The diary does record the names and dates of arrival of some arriving officers but I don't find his arrival. Looking at the regular records of officer numbers there are places in the diary where the numbers increase without names recorded so it looks as if his arrival was simply missed off the record - not unusual. The diary does not record the names of officers wounded but the battalion did see some intense action in October - 15 officers were wounded in the period 7-11 October alone, he may well have been among these.
MaxD
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Max D jim1
Thanks to you both.
I visited Kew in 2016 whilst holidaying in London and have an idea of costs involved. A researcher was an expensive exercise that provided no answers. He couldn't find the soldier/officer we were looking for. I sent a photograph of JJY to the RFD web site to identify the uniform but they were unable to confirm it despite his cap badge being quite prominent. I guess when yo look at the list J and James Young's I can understand the difficulty. This the first time anyone has acknowledged the regiment number.
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Max D
The attached is a file I pulled of the web after Googling James Johnston Young. I Have no knowledge of the author.
The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary portion I have discounted as a County Inspector of the Royal Irish Constabulary Forum web site has claimed no recognition of him as a member. The James J young listed was a James John with a different DoB.
Some of the information it mentions supports your advice.
Vern
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The information on the document relating to his army service is correct, including his relinquishment of commission in 1920 which I have since found. WO 338 is an index to officers'papers and his is there: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14538034 (the clip is from that document) 245733 is a registry number not a personal number. The researcher did not look for him in any war diaries and the reference to 3rd Battalion RDf makes sens, attachments/postings to other battalions do not always show up in records
The officer's file I cited earlier is, in my opinion, his file, properly filed since the document was written. I have sent you information about copying at a tenth of the Kew cost.
The remainder of the document is outside my field so I won't comment on that.
MaxD
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He was born 24 Dec 1897.
For completeness, the following are attached.
His birth 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02099/1800020.pdf
In 1901 census in Rathfriland.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Rathfriland/Main_Street/1250015/
In 1911 census in Dublin.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Leeson_Street__Lower/84247/
KG
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Max D
Thanks for your help. I wish I'd had the information you have provided before I went to Kew. I really do appreciate your effort. You obviously spent a lot of personal hours researching. Thanks again
Vern