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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Surrey => England => Surrey Lookup Requests => Topic started by: brianman on Thursday 23 July 20 07:51 BST (UK)
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Looking to find information for Charles Fairman b 07/11/ 1806
At Beddington Surrey England , any information would be much appreciated
marriage , death , etc
Father was Joseph Fairman b 03/12/1776 Crayford , Kent
d abt 1816 Croydon , Surrey England .
Mother Amey Fairman née Pratt marriage 28/05/1797 Mitcham , Surrey , U.K
Best Regards
Brian
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB6L-438
Do you have any proof that he survived infancy as he does not appear on any census post 1841
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According to one tree on Ancestry.
Charles Fairman
BIRTH 8 DEC 1806 • Beddington, with, Wallington, Surrey, England
DEATH 1889 • Tantawanglo, New South Wales, Australia
Colin
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Not sure if if he survived , that’s why I am trying to find any death details or marriage etc
Charles d 1889 was b 1811 Brighton Sussex
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Not according to the birthdate & birthplace given above by Colin ???
Can you give details of how you know that entry is incorrect?
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I have death certificate of Charles Fairman born Brighton Sussex d 1889 NSW
78years = 1811
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So that only leaves 2 possibilities
He died before the 1841 census
He emigrated before 1841
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One was a sailor on whaling ship L’Aigle shipwrecked off Tonga brought to Port Jackson ( Sydney ) on Barque Tranmere 1830 lived and died in NSW .
But which one is correct ?
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One was a sailor on whaling ship L’Aigle shipwrecked off Tonga brought to Port Jackson ( Sydney ) on Barque Tranmere 1830 lived and died in NSW .
But which one is correct ?
Who is the other one then?
In 2013 you were looking for Charles Fairman born 1811 Brighton
https://www.familytreeforum.com/forum/research-advice/family-history-research/54843-fairman-sussex-and-power-ireland-families
You say he died in NSW
There is also a long thread on another forum in 2019, featuring our Rootschat friend solidrock
If Charles from Beddington is not the chap who died in NSW in 1889, then why are you asking about him?
Charles in NSW had a son Joseph born in 1845.
What other evidence is there of a Charles Fairman being born in Brighton circa 1811? There's no baptism, etc.
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Hello to all and thank you for your interest
I have said before I only have death certificate for Charles Fairman stating he
was b Brighton Sussex England d 1889 age 78 = b 1811
I do know his family history in Australia ( my GGGrandfather ) but not previously
Other Charles Fairman b Beddington Surrey 1806 would be 83 which is 5yrs different , So I need to find out this Charles history , not sure if same person .
Would need death,burial , marriage details to confirm .
Best Regards
Brian
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I now have a Charles Fairman buried 02/11/1838 Camberwell Surrey England
Not sure if it is same Charles Fairman b 1806 Beddington Surrey England .
I have no marriage details to help .
Regards
BF
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Sadly not
FAIRMAN, CHARLES aged 2
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 04 Page 141
John
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What was Charles's occp in Australia esp on his M/C if shown?
There is a Charles Fairman age 30 on the 1841 Census in Durham.
Not born in County.
Occp hard to make out, possibly shirt or street merchant.
EDIT
I think this one may be a red herring as he appears to be a Spirit Merchant (Victualler) and married Oct 1841 in London, Father JOHN, on the Docks
He has several children with Susan so couldnt have been in OZ by 1843
He never appears on Census with his Wife though.
1851 she is married by 1861 Widowed.
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Hi Trish , Not sure Charles Fairman went to Australia I am trying to find out
Charles b 1806 Beddington Surrey
Charles in Durham too old b 1811
Thanks
BF
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Johnhood
Thanks for that it eliminates another one .
Will keep looking , hard to find info that far back
Regards
BF
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Let’s go backwards.
Where does Charles fit into your FH? Are you descended directly from him or from one of his siblings?
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Need to find out if Charles Fairman b 1806 Beddington Surrey died and or married
in England .
As I have given lots of information previously for a Charles Fairman b 1811 Brighton Sussex seems to be correct Fairman, but I was told to try and eliminate the Charles b 1806 which I am trying to do .
One would be my GGGrandfather l so would like to find out for sure .
Thanks again to all
Regards
BF
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Let's concentrate on the one who was your GGGrandfather.
Which of his children are you descended from? Tell us his/her name & when & where that child was born
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Joseph Fairman b 1874 Wolumla New South Wales Australia was my Grandfather .
His father was Joseph Fairman b 1845 Two Fold Bay New South Wales Australia.
Regards
BF
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Okay - so what documentation specific to Joseph b 1845 shows his father as Charles & Charles birthyear as 1806 & his birthplace as Beddington Surrey?
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Baptism record No 733 v63 for Joseph Fairman b 01/03/1845 states father Charles Fairman date of Baptism 06/07/1846 abode Twofold Bay NSW Australia.
Charles Fairman b 1806 b Beddington Surrey is different Charles to above b 1811
I have only found on various sites Charles b 1806 Beddington no marriage or burial dates which I need unless someone can help it is my brick wall.
If you can read ( only if you want / can ) my previous on pages 1-2 with much more detail , than I can put here .
Many thanks
BF 83 yrs
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I have since found Baptism form for Charles Fairman son of Joseph & Amy Fairman.
States born 07/11/1806. Baptised 25/12/1806
Regards
BF
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I know that from your post - what I am asking is what actual documentation for son Joseph in Australia SPECIFICALLY states that his father was born in England? Joseph was born in 1845 so the Charles Fairman b Surrey would have been 39 at that time. This suggests he could have been in Australia for some time.
Have you searched Australian records for Charles Fairman? There is an entry on Ancestry under the NSW & Tasmania convict records but I don't have a WW membership so cannot see the full record re dates etc
You need to find some Australian records for Charles to establish his birthyear & country of birth.
At the moment - you just seem to be assuming he was from England as there is nothing in this post to say you have established that from Australian records.
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The convict who arrived on the Neptune in 1820 (10 years old) is listed in the Colonial Secretaries Papers and on the 1825 Muster as Charles FAIRMAN (quite clearly with an "I"), however, "claim a convict" has his name as Charles FARMAN (no "I"). If this is the correct man then he was sentenced in Yarmouth for grand larceny to 7 years transportation.
Saturday, Sept. 11, 1819
Publication: Norfolk Chronicle
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I have death certificateCharles Fairman b1811 Brighton Sussex England
Died 1889 Tantawanglo NSW Australia informant was his son Joseph b1845
.
Arrived in Port Jackson ( Sydney ) in 1830 after being shipwrecked off Tonga
on the whaling ship L’Aigle
Story of him and 31 other sailors is on Trove .
Charles Fairman on ship Neptune has been proven to be not related .
Best Regards
BF
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Your replies do not fully answer the questions asked which is why we are on page 3 of this post without being any the wiser
Can I suggest you read my last reply number 22.
IF - the 1889 death cert clearly states Charles was b 1811 Sussex & IF the informant was your great grandfather Joseph - why are you asking about a Charles Fairman b 1806 Surrey??
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Charles Fairman on ship Neptune has been proven to be not related .
Best Regards
BF
How have you decided this.
Even if you find it repetitive, you will need to detail it if you hope for assistance,.
Sue
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Having now read about the whaler L'Aigle, which was wrecked off Tonga and 2 years out of London on trove and in the British press, I would be interested to know how you know that "your" Charles FAIRMAN was a member of the crew. I don't doubt you - just interested.
Interesting account from the journal of Mr TURNER, Nukualofa 1830.
Mar. 1, 1831
Publication: The Missionary Notices
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Whaling History.
British Southern Crew
WRI Bc05064007
Fairman Charles
L’Aigle 1828
Seaman
Wrecked at Tongataboo
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That's interesting brianman, how do you know that this is your ancestor? I can see nothing except a name as member of the crew.
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In this recounting of early history in Bega and Twofold Bay, I see the possible relationship between the whaling station there and Charles FAIRMAN, stockman.
But it is only "circimstantial"
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70606092?searchTerm=%22fairman%20bega%22~12
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Hi Maddy
If you look at P3 #18. #20 it will give you all your information
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Sorry for my mistake , I meant , Page 3 #18 #20 on this Rootchat site
previous pages , are you able to look at them ?
They will give you lots of information for my questions on both Fairman’s
Best Wishes
BF
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Hi BF
Please answer these questions....
On the death certificate for Charles' wife, Ann, what information about her marriage to Charles?
Death reg
FAIRMAN Anna
3476/1870
Father Thomas P
Mother Anna
At EDEN
Date place of the marriage and children to the marriage?
What do you know of other children. ?
Sue
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Hello Sue
Marriage was 1843 St James Catholic Church Sydney only records might only be on microfilm in Sydney
Ellen Power changed her name to Anna ( was her mother’s name ) when came to Sydney Australia in 1835 . On Duchess Of Northumberland
Children Sarah b 1842 Joseph b 1845 Ann b 1851 Amelia b 1853
This Joseph Fairman was my
Regards
BF
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There is a Charles Fairman age 30 on the 1841 Census in Durham.
Not born in County.
Occp hard to make out, possibly shirt or street merchant.
EDIT
I think this one may be a red herring as he appears to be a Spirit Merchant (Victualler) and married Oct 1841 in London, Father JOHN, on the Docks
He has several children with Susan so couldnt have been in OZ by 1843
He never appears on Census with his Wife though.
1851 she is married by 1861 Widowed.
Just to rule this particular Charles out further - pretty sure this is him in 1851- Charles FAIRMAN (wine merchant, married aged 41, born Blackfriars, Surrey), visiting at the house of George PETERS (wine merchant) in Kings Norton, Worcestershire.
HO 107/2048/62 pg 2
As to whether this is the Charles FAIRMAN baptised 1806 at Beddington, I'm not sure. :-\
Modified to add:
Sorry, my head is spinning with all these Charles FAIRMANs born c1810. The one mentioned above (wine merchant) is most likely the one baptised at Soutwark, parents John and Sarah. I think someone already ruled him out. Apologies.
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On the death certificate for Charles' wife, Ann, what information about her marriage to Charles?
Death reg
FAIRMAN Anna
3476/1870
Father Thomas P
Mother Anna
At EDEN
Sue
Hello Sue
Marriage was 1843 St James Catholic Church Sydney only records might only be on microfilm in Sydney
Ellen Power changed her name to Anna ( was her mother’s name ) when came to Sydney Australia in 1835 . On Duchess Of Northumberland
Children Sarah b 1842 Joseph b 1845 Ann b 1851 Amelia b 1853
This Joseph Fairman was my
Regards
BF
Is the information I have highlighted in your reply taken from your copy of the Death Certificate of ANN?
Who was the informant?
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Anna !
Informant was Charles ( popular name ) Galli , son-in-law, Bega ;
Note Anna Fairman née Power is buried along with others under the now Bega High School ( that is a BIG headstone/ monument)
BF
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Hello Sue
Marriage was 1843 St James Catholic Church Sydney
Is the information I have highlighted in your reply taken from your copy of the Death Certificate of ANN?
OR where did you get the information?
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Not sure who sent marriage details was a long time ago they gave detailed as 1843 StJames Catholic Church parish Cumberland , more details are
supposed to be at Mitchell Library Macquarie Street Sydney on Microfilm
I am not in New South Wales so was not able to follow up in the past .
Regards BF
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What I am trying to ascertain is the marriage particulars which are given on the Death Certificate of Ann FAIRMAN.
There is a heading on one of the columns requiring details of the marriage of the deceased. It includes the age of the deceased at marriage.
Do you have the Death Certificate?
Sue
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Yes I have Death Certificate it states
Place Married Sydney
Age at Marriage 25 .
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As I'm sure you know, there is no marriage on the NSW BDM index that seems to fit your couple. If you wanted to try to find the marriage you have indicated note that "Parish of St James, County of Cumberland" refers to the general Sydney area at that time, not a specific Church. The parish register may contain some information that might be useful for your research, even though it may not contain parent's names. Records from the Sydney Archdiocesan Archives have been microfilmed and are available at the NSW State Library and the Australian National Library. You could try their "ask a librarian" service" - I have had very helpful responses in the past, (though not for a specific marriage lookup).
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research-and-collections/ask-librarian
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Hi, I received a message via GenesReunited regarding this thread because I have the Charles FAIRMAN born 1806 Beddington in my family tree. I am descended from his sister Sarah born 1811. Our common ancestor would be his father Joseph Fairman 1780 who is my g-g-g-g-grandfather.
Sadly I have no additional info re Charles, just his baptism.
Just a thought that my DNA is on Ancestry, have you tested Brian? If we came up as a match, albeit distant you would know it was this one?
Good luck
Heather
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Hello Heather
Yes this Charles Fairman b 1806 is very hard to track down , just need to know if he died in UK .
I have tested DNA with Ancestry.
Regards
Bryan