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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: CelticMom on Monday 17 August 20 00:50 BST (UK)
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My 4xGreat Grandfather Peter McCallum was born around 1817.
From his brother Robert's marriage cert I know he was likely born in Tradeston, Lanarkshire and parents are Peter McCallum (an Auctioneer) and Elizabeth McFadyen.
Elizabeth McFadyen was born in Paisley in 1792.
The difficult part I have had is there is no marriage between Elizabeth and Peter and I can't find the baptisms of Peter or Robert.
I have managed to trace Elizabeth line and have confirmed her with DNA matches. I can see where the Mccallum line branches to, it's just filling in my possible Peter McCallum.
One candidate stands out Peter McCallum born 1781 to James McCallum and Janet Tosh in Greenock. The issue is however this Peter marries Margaret Park and is having children with her.
But I keep getting drawn back to him as with an occupation of Merchant and being in the right area he is the one that stands out.
Which would mean my 4xGreat Grandfather and his brother Robert (could even be more Children) are the result of an affair that Elizabeth had with Peter. It would explain the no marriage and no baptisms.
So with James McCallums wife being quite an unusual name - Tosh. I decided to check my dna matches and viola I have a couple of different matches that connect to her grandparents. This can't be a coincidence?
But is there any records that might exist to confirm any of this, did the Parish find out would there be a record there? The fact Elizabeth gave them their fathers surname would tell me he acknowledged them. I have found Peter Mccallum (Merchants) will, but he doesn't name Robert or Peter in there from what I can see, it's hard to read and is many pages. My 4xgreat grandfather was deceased at the time, but Robert was still alive. Maybe his wife and other kids didn't know?
Any advice would be appreciated. I've been stuck on this for years and finally get a bit of a breakthrough to then get stuck again.
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Hi :)
Peter McCallum , merchant , aged 60 is recorded on the 1841 Census at Springkell Street , Greenock.
With him are James McCallum aged 25 and Thos.( Thomas) McCallum aged 19 - both merchants - could they be his sons ?
Also Janet McCallum aged 40 and Mary Thomson both servants .
All are born in Renfrewshire.
Where is your Peter McCallum born 1817 to a Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McFadyen on this Census?
Looby :)
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Previous thread on the same family
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=835851.0
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Hi :)
Peter McCallum , merchant , aged 60 is recorded on the 1841 Census at Springkell Street , Greenock.
With him are James McCallum aged 25 and Thos.( Thomas) McCallum aged 19 - both merchants - could they be his sons ?
Also Janet McCallum aged 40 and Mary Thomson both servants .
All are born in Renfrewshire.
Where is your Peter McCallum born 1817 to a Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McFadyen on this Census?
Looby :)
He is in Leith with his wife. I’ve managed to confirm Robert is his brother from dna matches as I have direct dna matches all through Elizabeth McFadyens line. It’s just establishing the Peter McCallum father (merchant)
As mentioned he or Robert Won’t be with Peter in the census as my theory is he never married Elizabeth and Robert and Peter are the result of an affair. No marriage exists and no baptisms.
Going by that theory I’ve looked at his mother Janet Tosh and have dna matches to her. But am trying to see if I can confirm anyway with parish records. Maybe Kirk sessions?
I’ve contact a descendant of Peter McCallum and Margaret Park in the hope they have done a genealogy dna test to try and confirm. As child of those would be half sibling to my Peter.
Thanks Forisn for linking to my thread.
I originally found a possible marriage of Peter to an Elizabeth that fit but surname is Collins and nowhere does Collins tie it so it has to be a red herring that marriage.
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I am thinking Elizabeth may have died young too.
I know my Peter Born 1817 was in Falkirk in 1840 just prior to 1841 census
As his son Henry James Laurence McCallum is Born there, but Peter married his wife Harriet in Leith. Which tells me he was likely living in Falkirk before leith.
I think I have found Elizabeth’s brother in Falkirk James mcFadyen and he has a son Laurence. Maybe that’s where the James Laurence part comes from. Perhaps he lived with his uncle when his mother died.
It’s just confirming my theory which I am convinced is correct. That Peter Born 1781 a merchant is his father. Everything so far fits. Other than of course he is married to someone else. I dna connect to that Peters line and dna connect to Janet Tosh his mother. Seems convincing right?
Merchant could easily be an Auctioner. If you google Peter McCallum merchant Greenock their is a book about the family company. Auctioneer sounds fitting.
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Hi again,
Prior to 1855 and statutory registration coming in to force , births, marriages and deaths could be recorded in Parish Records (OPRs ) , however there was no obligation to do this.
Because no marriage record can be found between Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McFadyen doesn't mean there was never a couple with those names married.
Some Old Parish records have been lost or destroyed . What Scotland's People have are all the surviving OPRs .
Also not all BMDs were recorded in the OPRs in the first place.
This would also apply to the birth records of the two brothers Peter and Robert.
Whilst I'm not saying Peter McCallum in Greenock can be ruled out as a potential father , I think it is far more likely another Peter McCallum is the man you are looking for.
You mention Peter is in Leitram in 1841. Do you mean Leith in Midlothian?
Is he a 24 year old shoemaker ?
Looby :)
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Hi again,
Prior to 1855 and statutory registration coming in to force , births, marriages and deaths could be recorded in Parish Records (OPRs ) , however there was no obligation to do this.
Because no marriage record can be found between Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McFadyen doesn't mean there was never a couple with those names married.
Some Old Parish records have been lost or destroyed . What Scotland's People have are all the surviving OPRs .
Also not all BMDs were recorded in the OPRs in the first place.
This would also apply to the birth records of the two brothers Peter and Robert.
Whilst I'm not saying Peter McCallum in Greenock can be ruled out as a potential father , I think it is far more likely another Peter McCallum is the man you are looking for.
You mention Peter is in Leitram in 1841. Do you mean Leith in Midlothian?
Is he a 24 year old shoemaker ?
Looby :)
Thank you
Yes Leith sorry (darn auto correct) lol
I’ve been stuck on this for years until recently when I cracked his mother side from the dna match.
Believe me I’m aware many records are lost or just not there . It’s caused me lots of brick walls lol.
However his occupation is fitting and the dna matches to his mother. I’m really convinced he is the father. I’ve looked at all other likely candidates and can’t dna match to anyone on mother’s side. So kept getting this Peter but was put off that he was married to someone else. But that means nothing.
I suppose If I plot his line out further and get dna matches to other parts of his mothers side that would confirm for sure.
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I'm no expert on DNA ;D but I would assume if you could establish some sort of DNA match to Peter McCallum of Greenock's descendants that would help your connection.
Where is your Peter in 1851 ? Does he have more children than Henry James Laurence McCallum? Where and when does Peter die ?
Sorry for all the questions- just trying to get the bigger picture so I can maybe help.
James McFadyen and his son Laurence in Stirling - did you find them on a Census? I can't find them ???
I'm not sure about a merchant and auctioneer being similar - although I suppose Peter McCallum may have auctioned goods. The business is iron and nail merchants? Ideally placed in Greenock for shipbuilding.
Looby :)
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I'm no expert on DNA ;D but I would assume if you could establish some sort of DNA match to Peter McCallum of Greenock's descendants that would help your connection.
Where is your Peter in 1851 ? Does he have more children than Henry James Laurence McCallum? Where and when does Peter die ?
Sorry for all the questions- just trying to get the bigger picture so I can maybe help.
James McFadyen and his son Laurence in Stirling - did you find them on a Census? I can't find them ???
I'm not sure about a merchant and auctioneer being similar - although I suppose Peter McCallum may have auctioned goods. The business is iron and nail merchants? Ideally placed in Greenock for shipbuilding.
Looby :)
I think my Peter died bet 1841 and 1851. I can’t find him or Harriet. Both their children are in St Cuthbert workhouse Henry and my 3rd great grandfather William Gilchrist McCallum.
Leith appears to be missing a batch of records for that period as I know Harriets father died in there too and his burial/death can’t be found either.
I did find James McFadyen but have lost it. Let me see if I can find it again.
.
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James is actually in Paisley my error, it must of been another McFadyen ancestor in Falkirk.
Let me look again who it was.
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hi
the Peter Mccallum that married Margaret Park is the
Peter from Sprinkell St,Greenock he was known as
an iron monger and iron merchant
Margaret died 1841 Peter 1854 according to census that peter was born Renfrewshire,
both deaths are recorded in intimations in the watt library greenock
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hi Celtic mum
just a query about the Janet Tosh is there a possibility that its Mcintosh
Peter McCallum iron merchant of Sprinkell st 2nd Daughter was Janet McIntosh Mcallum
She married an Archibald McCallum a writter of some sorts
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hi Celtic mum
just a query about the Janet Tosh is there a possibility that its Mcintosh
Peter McCallum iron merchant of Sprinkell st 2nd Daughter was Janet McIntosh Mcallum
She married an Archibald McCallum a writter of some sorts
Im not sure, I have her the marriage entry and it definitely says Tosh and her father was definitely Tosh too. Not sure why the “mc” part wasn’t used until later on but tracing her back it definitely appears to be Tosh.
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hi
the Peter Mccallum that married Margaret Park is the
Peter from Sprinkell St,Greenock he was known as
an iron monger and iron merchant
Margaret died 1841 Peter 1854 according to census that peter was born Renfrewshire,
both deaths are recorded in intimations in the watt library greenock
Thank you - Yes I have his will. Sadly nothing mentioned about Robert if he was his affair son, my Peter was deceased at that point.
This is more about the history of the company Peter and his father and his children ran https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/de7650fb-cee9-3173-b7fc-83bc8cfe8227 - could that kind of like profession be referred to as an auctioneer, as in auctioning metal and iron? I don’t see any Peter McCallum auctioneers in any trade lists. But who knows.
I’m gonna keep working back in their lines for now and see if I get anymore dna matches.
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hi
i m not sure about auctioneer referring iron merchant
but what i can tell you if there was a company in greenock
the dealt in wines and spirits McCallums that was a familly affair
auctioneer could refer to the auctioning of spirits
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hi again
the Janet McIntosh McCallum that married Archibald McCallum
had a daughter Margaret Park McCallum
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hi
i m not sure about auctioneer referring iron merchant
but what i can tell you if there was a company in greenock
the dealt in wines and spirits McCallums that was a familly affair
auctioneer could refer to the auctioning of spirits
I have come across a Peter McCallum spirit merchant but he appears to be in Edinburgh and is there in from at least 1813 up to 1832, so possibly not connected.
I dont know why i just feel any merchant could be an auctioneer, as they are the merchant of selling goods, right? Which takes me back to Peter McCallum - Iron Merchant but maybe I am wrong. The only other ones I can see in the glasgow/greenock/paisley area are a Grocer and a Tailor.
The dna match of a branch on Janets side is not enough to convince me just yet. As I could match that person completely somewhere else. So still trying to rule out other Peters for now.
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hi again
the Janet McIntosh McCallum that married Archibald McCallum
had a daughter Margaret Park McCallum
Yes Janet is Peter and Margaret Parks daughter, but her mother definitely is Tosh and her father, grandfather.
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Hi CelticMom,
What a terrible start in life for young Henry and William McCallum. You would therefore imagine they had been orphaned by 1851. The older Gilchrist couple and woman with whom the McCallum family are registered with in 1841, and who may have been relatives of Harriet's are missing from 1851 Census too.
Looking at Peter McCallum, their father. Sadly you do not have much documented evidence of his life. You know he was married to Harriet in Leith ( what year please?) and his son Henry James Laurence was baptised in Falkirk in Jan 1841. You know he was in Leith with the Gilchrist family on 1841 Census - a 24 year old Shoemaker who was born outside the Census county. Was William's baptism recorded?
Looking at your other thread. You have linked Peter to a brother Robert McCallum through DNA results. As already said, I know nothing about DNA ;D but would like to ask how strong/accurate those results are that mean you can definitely say these men were brothers and not more distantly related.
You have information on Robert McCallum from his second marriage in 1855. This gives you the birthplace for Robert of Tradeston and the parents Peter McCallum ( auctioneer) and Elizabeth McFadyen.
Who were the witnesses to this marriage?
It is interesting that both Peter and Robert need name a son Henry . Of course Robert's son may have been called after his cousin. But it makes me wonder if this was another family name.
Lastly. Iron merchant/ auctioneer?? Personally I would not link one with the other. Mind you, just because Robert McCallum said his father was an auctioneer on his marriage record doesn't mean he actually was. He wouldn't be the first or last to make a mistake or embellish the truth on a marriage cert.
Looby :)
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Thank you for you reply.
I haven’t found Williams birth as it was in Leith and there seems to be a bulk of records missing for that period. His baptism and his parents, grandparents deaths.
I’m am pretty confident Peter is Roberts brother as I dna match to various branches from Elizabeth McFadyen and I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t descend from her.
Witnesses at Roberts marriage are Matilda Aitken and what looks like Robert Day or ODay
I’m not feeling too convinced about Peter McCallum iron merchant anymore. Reason being is when I look at my dna matches for McCallum there is a pattern of using the names Dugald, Duncan and Donald in children and they all seem to connect back to Girzall Munro and Donald McCallum of Inveraray, so the clue is there I think. My Peter has to fit inbetween them somewhere. Peter (iron merchant) doesn’t use any of those names. I can see there are some of Donald’s and Girzall sons ending up in the Renfrew/Lanark area so my Peter could be the son of any of those.
I’ve been plotting back all my mccallum dna matches hoping that something stands out and most link through to Girzall and Donald.
With Elizabeth McFadyen being born 1792 I’d expect him to be born anywhere from 1781 to her year too but he could be much older or even slightly younger.
Hopefully I can crack this at some point. I’ve definitely made progress after years of being stuck by working out his mother at least.
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Found a Peter McCallum born about 1792/93 who died in Leith in 1840, occupation Wine and Spirit dealer - could this be Peter and Roberts father maybe?
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hi
1841 census Trongate, glasgow
Elisabeth McCallum 60
peter McCallum 25
could be Elizabeth McFadyen with son Peter
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hi
1841 census Trongate, glasgow
Elisabeth McCallum 60
peter McCallum 25
could be Elizabeth McFadyen with son Peter
Thank you - My Peter is in Leith in 1841 with wife Harriet, so I don’t think this is him. Occupation was a Shoemaker.
Plus Elizabeth was born 1792 - so this Elizabeth would be too old (although I know census ages can be way off)
She could be related though, wife of Peter McCallum seniors brother maybe.
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Ugh and now I am not sure about Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McFadyen being his parents. I definitely dna match to McFadyen and McGarvie which are Surnames from a Elizabeth but I think these may be coicidental. As I have two surnames that match this person.
Which takes me back to The only info I know is Peter McCallum born 1817 Living in Leith but not born in Leith, married in Leith 1840, first son Henry James Laurence born in Falkirk (what is the Falkirk connection) and then William Gilchrist born about 1845, between then date and 1851 Peter and hus wife are deceased.
If they followed naming patterns you would expect Henry James Laurence to have some connect. William Gilchrist the second son is the name of Harriets his wives father.
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Hi -
Thanks for the info from Robert McCallum's marriage cert - I had hoped the witnesses names might give a clue....but maybe not !
I think you are wise to regroup and begin with what you know about Peter McCallum.
Can I ask if you have read the original records on Scotlands People of both his marriage to Harriet and the birth of Henry James Laurence in Falkirk?
If so, how were they worded . Can you transcribe please?
We are assuming both Peter and Harriet - plus the entire Gilchrist family are deceased by 1851. However it is worth pointing out that because the children are in the poorhouse that might not be the case - I have examples in my own tree of children being in the poorhouse when only one parent is deceased or if a parent has abandoned them :'(
Henry James Laurence McCallum's name is interesting - as you say if they were following the traditional naming pattern you would expect this to relate to Peter's father's name.
The birth/christening of Henry in Falkirk is also interesting - there could be a family connection to that area.
Looby :)
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unfortunately they don't give much info.
On the marriage in Leith:
Peter McCallum, Shoemaker, Citadel, and Harriet Pearson Gilchrist, South Fort Street, N Leith, daughter of William Gilcrist (Royal Navy Gunner) were proclaimed on the 22nd and married on the 23 March 1840 by Rev Francis Muir Minister in Leith
(no witnesses mentioned).
Citadel might be a clue for Peter, but couldn't find anything.
On the baptism of Henry James Laurence McCallum in Falkirk:
Henry James Laurence McCallum son of Peter McCallum and Harriet Gilchrist born 26th december 1840 established 18th October 1840. So she must of been pregnant when they married.
Death of William Gilchrist (originally I only had his death date from his pension record) but I have found it in St Cuthberts the same parish Henry and William are in in 1851 in the workhouse .
1st August 1843 Wm Gilchrist - Late Gunner 3 S Fort Street, Leith, age 68 (Disease of Bowels).
I can't find William Gilchrist McCallum's baptism, maybe Harriet died in childbirth. He would have been born about 1842-1845 by his census age.
He and his brother Henry are in St Cuthberts Workhouse in 1851, I can't locate Henry after this. William ends up as a Lodger with the Newlands by 1861 at 32 West Port and he marries their daughter Mary Ann. He is at 5 Portland Pl in 1871 with Mary Ann, her parents and his children and then dies in 1875.
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Got another son for Peter and Harriet - no baptism from what I can see, but here is his death.
James McCallum died 12 May 1846 (age 1 and 2 months) - father Peter McCallum (now a Tailor it seems) - 3 South Fort Street - cause of death Measles.
So I am presuming Harriet and Peter were still alive in 1846.
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okay going on a possibility that Peter may not of died (maybe just Harriet did). I have found a marriage in 1854 in St Cuthberts.
transcription:
Peter McCallum, boot closer residing at no 26 West Richmond Street and Elizabeth McDermaid also residing there of the same parish eldest daughter of the late John McDermaid - cabinet maker formerly in Canongate have been three times duly regularly proclaimed in the parish church of St Cuthberts in order ot marriage and no objections made. Married on the 4th september 1854 by the rev John Clark of Old Church Parish Edinburgh.
(doesn't name any witnesses) - may not be him but with the occupation and area it's standing out. I can't locate him in 1851 though.
EDIT: I am pretty sure this marriage is not my Peter, found him in 1861 census with wife and he is born about 1825 in Edinburgh, and from that I think I located that one in the 1841 census with mother Agnes.
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Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McDiarmid had at least 4 children, including William born 4 June 1855 in Edinburgh. William's birth certificate will tell you, among other extra information, where Peter was born and how old he was.
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Peter McCallum and Elizabeth McDiarmid had at least 4 children, including William born 4 June 1855 in Edinburgh. William's birth certificate will tell you, among other extra information, where Peter was born and how old he was.
Yeah the Peter who marrried Elizabeth McDiarmid is not mine, I’ve ruled him out as I found him in the 1841 census with his mother he was born 1825 in Edinburgh.
Mine was born 1817 and out of midlothian and is with wife and in-laws in 1841
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He is definitely proving to be a hard ancestor to trace, Ive looked at all the possible Peters born at the right time and check my dna matches against mothers maiden name, but nothing definitely standing out and some of the maiden names are too common to be sure, then of course there is the possibility that his baptism is not even on there in which case it’s really going to be hard to crack.
I am hoping someone close might do a dna test at some point and I can break this brick wall. It looks from my dna matches that he descends from an Inveraray branch of McCallums, but I can’t fill in the blanks up to them.
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Hi CelticMom,
Thanks for transcribing the entries - I was hoping something might give a clue.
Citadel is the old area of Leith where Peter must have been staying prior to marriage . I looked at the Old Post Office Directories from this era and there was in fact a shoe maker's business at Citadel ....forgot to jot down the name....but it might have been where Peter worked.
I think the fact the couple married in Oct 1840 at Leith but had their baby in Falkirk 2 months later (then having him baptized there) could be a clue to Peter's origins.
They didn't stay in Falkirk for long as they are back in Leith for the Census in early April.
I wonder if the name Henry for the baby is Peter's father's name or if it is a nod to the child's mothers name. ( Harriet).
There was another boy called Henry McCallum born in 1841 in Edinburgh to a John McCallum. His mother was an Elizabeth Henry ( obviously where his forename came from!)
Looby :)
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He used the name James twice too, with one of Henry’s middle names James and then the young James who died just 1 year old that I found yesterday. Possible a clue James is in his family as it doesn’t appear to be from Harriets side.
Interestingly there is a James MCallam in Falkirk in 1841 born about 1816 and born in Stirlingshire, could this be his brother? Actually there are a few McCallums (and variations) born around that time that I can’t locate baptism for, as well as a Margaret MCallam who is a widow born 1776, she is from out of Stirlingshire.
I can’t locate James after 1841, to see if there are any other clues.
Unfortunately there are lots of Gilchrist’s in Falkirk too, so it could have been from Harriets side why they were there.
Shame no address is given on Henry’s baptism that may have helped.
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Could be a birth and death of another son in 1843?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRSV-GC2
A male child born 11th April 1843 and died 14th Apr 1843 at Edinburgh - father Peter McCallum. The original should be available to view on Scotlands People.
Looby :)
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Unfortunately there are lots of Gilchrist’s in Falkirk too, so it could have been from Harriets side why they were there.
Shame no address is given on Henry’s baptism that may have helped.
Ahh - you could be right about the Falkirk connection being to Harriet.
The 1841 Census has a Henry Gilchrist aged 25 - a cabinet maker journeyman born in England living with the Boyne family at Vicar Lane in Falkirk.
I believe this young man is on the 1851 Census in the Outer High Parish in Glasgow.
He is lodging with an old sailor William Graham and his wife at 3 Tarbet Street.
Henry Gilchrist aged 34 married Cabinet Maker born Devon, Stonehouse
Elizabeth Gilchrist aged 38 wife born Leith
This man has to be Harriet's brother? Surely? A English born Gilchrist in Falkirk around the time Harriet gives birth there, with the same first name as the baby, who marries a woman from Leith.
There is a marriage in South Leith on 3rd July 1846 between Henry Gilchrist and Elisabeth Syme.
Looby :)
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Unfortunately there are lots of Gilchrist’s in Falkirk too, so it could have been from Harriets side why they were there.
Shame no address is given on Henry’s baptism that may have helped.
Ahh - you could be right about the Falkirk connection being to Harriet.
The 1841 Census has a Henry Gilchrist aged 25 - a cabinet maker journeyman born in England living with the Boyne family at Vicar Lane in Falkirk.
I believe this young man is on the 1851 Census in the Outer High Parish in Glasgow.
He is lodging with an old sailor William Graham and his wife at 3 Tarbet Street.
Henry Gilchrist aged 34 married Cabinet Maker born Devon, Stonehouse
Elizabeth Gilchrist aged 38 wife born Leith
This man has to be Harriet's brother? Surely? A English born Gilchrist in Falkirk around the time Harriet gives birth there, with the same first name as the baby, who marries a woman from Leith.
There is a marriage in South Leith on 3rd July 1846 between Henry Gilchrist and Elisabeth Syme.
Looby :)
Well done, that is Indeed her brother I think, he was born in Plymouth when his father was there with the navy. Their older siblings were born in Leith. Possibly why they were in Falkirk, Although I’d expect more than it being just her younger brother there, to actually baptise your son there, I’d expect her to take him back to Leith and baptise in Leith?
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Something to process too.
So someone who descends from my Peter has also done a dna test.
We both share a dna match with someone who descends from Dugald McCallum who I believe was born about 1790 (he is in ardchattan) and Janet McIlriach born about 1796, so my Peter has to connect to Dugalds branch (although not his son I don’t think, I definitely don’t see a son Peter born to then anyway, It will be from either a sibling of Duglald or another generation back and then down, I think.
I think my head might explode lol.