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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: susiee on Monday 14 September 20 23:08 BST (UK)
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Does any one know how the actual "Informant procedure for a 1890 rural birth .
Did an informant for a birth get given a form to fill out? or was he assisted and just answered questions.
Who literally filled out the historical certificate back in the day ?
Or was a form transcribed by the Registrar staff and then copied on to a cert.?
But then that why they request the informants signature i guess .
1-The questions.
2- Signature..
3- Description .----- Its this question we have seen someone wrongly interpret and write they are the brother of the baby instead of the Uncle .
t is a bit of a twisty question, you could read it a few ways.
As in
What relation are you to the parent or the baby .
Whichis what has happened on a cert we have so wanting to understand the process more clearly .
So thats why we wondered if it had been answered wrongly by the Informant or does the Registrar staff literally walk them through the questions and clearly explain that " description " or else they would have had a heap of issues with that question with out a clear interpretation of it .
Anyone know about this or can recommend a book about it the procedure that would have that amount of detail .
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Informant driven .... and no pro forma paperwork required in that era. CONTEXT can be important.
Perhaps you could post link to your thread that has caused you to pose these questions. I am one of a number of RChatters who addressed the discussion at that time.
It is only in the 20th century that ordinary people became familiar with completing forms by writing information in response to printed headings became the Admin normal practice. Compulsory secular education to at least completing Primary school came about in the 1870s so the important skills of competent reading and writing were not always available to every rural family as teachers needed to be trained, funding for land and school buildings, equipment, and encouraging families to release their children from farm duties to attend schools.
Often a person knew how to write in their own name, but would have difficulty reading someone else's hand writing.
So the local deputy registrars were also not university trained people, may have had literacy skills, but not trained communicators. They were often part time roles, or minor functions of other roles.
Births... in NSW ... remember that Vic was separated from NSW in the 1850s, .... the informant (a family member ... ) went into town, to do tasks chores etc he or she may have not had formal educational qualifications ... remembers to register the birth, stands in a queue with others organising land transfer or buying sacks of flour, ... turn comes, wide counter, the attendant puts huge ledger book on counter, facing the attendant ... and grumpily says : Name ...... the informant answers this with his own name ... someone else in queue says in loud voice That's THY Name ... he wants baby's name ... that book faces the attendant, not the informant. The informant is embarrassed and confused by the noise and grumpy attendant.
I leave it to you to get to complete the 19th century rural context.
JM edited for some grammar and predictative text issues ... I am on e reader, cannot strike through ... sorry.
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I am sure this enquiry is about a birth registered in 1890 by John Isaac SCALES. There are several threads that have addressed this recently. They are still current threads.
The info on a 1916 marriage registration does not support the bride being the baby girl whose birth was registered by Mr SCALES in 1890.
JM.
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I am just tidying up my work desk, going through some scribbled notes, and so I share :
looking for Australian birth or baptism record Vic/NSW =any ideas where next? https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=836107.0 At reply # 7 is the 1892 d.c. for John SCALES (Senior, ie the father of John Isacc SCALES), and it includes the signature of the informant, John Isaac SCALES, son, Farmer (of) Mitta Mitta. (#7582/1892).
1889 Historical Victoria Australia Birth certificates – the procedure
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=835114.0
It is at this thread we also learn about the 1916 marriage (Mary Helen ANDREWS and Ernest Frederic HARRIS) and that the ‘only people present were the bride, groom, clergy and his wife and daughter’. The 1916 MC has the bride’s mother as Mary GLASS, and the bride as Mary Helen ANDREWS, a spinster aged 24. The official witnesses are recorded on the marriage registration and it seems that they are the clergyman’s wife and daughter. The congregation is not usually recorded on marriage registrations, so there is no notation on that record showing if the parent/s of the bride attended.
It is also at that thread that the discussion develops regarding John Isaac SCALES being the informant on the birth registration for a birth 24 Dec 1889 and registered some eight weeks later on Monday 24 February 1890. The opening post for that thread gives that there is a “small note written on the side of the cert dated June (1890) saying that in the 8th column where the informant is named that the informant was in fact the uncle not the brother’. A respected Global Moderator has replied (reply #1) noting he could have given the information verbally along with several other sensible suggestions and comments. Our OP responds (reply #2) noting the informant’s signature looked ‘like an elderly person signed it … he was 30ish …’ So perhaps the signature on the 1892 d.c. could be compared with the signature on the 1890 b.c.
But in general terms, I have not yet found anything to suggest that Mary Helen ANDREWS' mother was the sister of John Isaac SCALES.
I also think that all three threads would benefit from being merged into one thread.
Here is the live link to VIC BDM 'contact us' section. I notice there is a fee of $60, in the section headed : Ask a Family History expert Need help? Our genealogy experts can help with your search or do it for you.
To Ask an Expert:
Email your request to bdmdatarequests@justice.vic.gov.au (External link)
Perhaps our OP could consider if they were asked what the procedure was for registering birth in Vic in 1889-1890 and for the deputy registrar to make notation on the register itself re the relationship, that the response should help untangle any twisty info.
JM
ADD
Newspaper coverage Wagga, Temora, 1913 concerts from Miss Mary Andrews.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/142645153 Daily Advertiser 12 March 1913.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/145397402 Wagga Express 5 April 1913.
Add also
There is a birth registered in Victoria in 1890, and indexed as Mary ANDREWS, mother as Mary ANDREWS, no name for baby's dad . Ref 10718/1890.
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80095507 26 December 1913 The daily news, Perth.
She was sad 'on Christmas Day I spent my 21st birthday hundreds of miles away from my people'. So born 25 December 1892 ... and she was known as the Riverina Soprano as she came from Wagga.
JM
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:) was any of this info of any use?
JM