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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:19 BST (UK)

Title: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:19 BST (UK)
I am trying to confirm a dna connection.

I think I know the connection but the other party has different information.

From my information:

Ann Blackburn married Joseph Bulmer then George Brown (A and J son Richard Bulmer is my ancestor, A and J son John Bulmer is who I think their ancestor is)

1841 England census living in Kelloe, Durham (Ann Brown with husband and children including Richard and John Bulmer from her first marriage)
Page Number:9 Registration Number:HO107 Piece/Folio:313/47

John Bulmer married Ann Scott in 1846 (Houghton-le-Spring RD)
daughter Ann Bulmer born 1847 (same district)

the other person has slightly different information - John married Mary Ann Scott, daugher Ann born Hartlepool (but that would be different district), John on later census in England but daughter Ann in USA (arriving 1851-1856), John born Hertfordshire not Northumberland.

The last document I have for John is the 1841 census - then in 1847 daughter born so still in England - I wasn't able to find any more children.

So I was wondering if anyone could find any information after 1847 regarding the family - daughter Ann married John A Martin in 1865 West Virginia.

Thankyou

I think I am correct as I am working from the past to present and a shared match with us is to Ann Blackburn.
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:44 BST (UK)
1841 census
Both Richard 20 and his brother John 15 were born out of county, both miners
Ann Bulmer aged 15 was born in county.
Ann Brown aged 40 was also not born in county
Piece 313 book 14 folio 48 (not 47) page 9
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:48 BST (UK)
Richard and John born Northumberland (Ann is their sister) - I am looking for John's family after this - he married Ann Scott and had daughter also Ann.
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:52 BST (UK)
I was just posting the 1841 info for reference

1847, the only Ann Bulmer/ Scott birth is Houghton Le Spring... nothing in Hartlepool
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:56 BST (UK)
Thankyou

I'm just trying to gather information to give to the other person to prove I have the correct information for John Bulmer.

Would there be any records of them moving to USA?
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:57 BST (UK)
I know but we need to compare both sets of info  ;D

Ann Scott and John Bulmer
Marriage Date:   6 Jun 1846
Marriage Place:   Houghton-Le-Spring, Durham, England
father John Scott
father Joseph Bulmer
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:59 BST (UK)
Immigration records that far back are a bit scant

familysearch has some but you have to trawl and unless you know an approximate date then its almost impossible. Ancestry has some but again its hit and miss

where did they settle in America?
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:03 BST (UK)
John's daughter Ann is unlikely to have arrived in America (West Virginia?) 1551-1856 on her own leaving her father back in England unless he had died and she went with her mother.

She was only 18 when she married in West Virginia  either arrived much earlier, met her husband to be on the boat or travelled with him and married there.
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:09 BST (UK)
From their information :

arrived in USA 1852 (source 1910 USA census)
arrived in USA 1856 (source 1900 USA census)

I should then try to find them on 1851 UK census!

daughter Ann's first child born Kentucky, others born West Virginia, Indiana...they must have moved around for work!

Ann's husband born in Durham, England
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:12 BST (UK)
The other person has 1851 data for a different family in Hartlepool
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:14 BST (UK)
So she arrived as a young child but married a man from Durham?

I think the arrival dates quoted on the later census are a little suspect for some reason or other  ;D
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:16 BST (UK)
I know they have some wrong information!  ;D
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:20 BST (UK)
baptism for Ann Bulmer

Ann Bulmer 
bapt 28 Mar 1847
West Rainton, Durham, England, United Kingdom
Father John Bulmer
Mother Ann
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:48 BST (UK)
Ok so I have been looking at the various trees for Ann Bulmer daughter of John. 
There seems to be lots of copying and variations but none have decisive proof of parentage of Ann Bulmer.

Her death certificate in Washington may have her parents names on it. Do you have a copy? there is only a short transcript on Ancestry
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 16:59 BST (UK)
I don't have a copy of her death certificate - They say she died in 1925 (Anna Martin) Washington select death records.

I will just give them details I have (and the information you have given me) and they can decide if they want to change some people in their tree.

Thankyou for your help  ;D

I've just found a possble entry in 1851

Ann Bulmer living with/with grandma Ann Scott

Page Number:   
26
Registration Number:   
HO107
Piece/Folio:   
2393 / 599
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:06 BST (UK)
Her Burial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/5309805/ann-martin

I'll go and look at 1851
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:11 BST (UK)
1851 looks promising (some trees have Moorsley as a birth place)

Need to check if Ann Scott had a daughter Ann
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:19 BST (UK)
There are no deaths for John and Ann Bulmer between 1847-1851 (GRO have ages on the index search)
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:26 BST (UK)
possible 1841 for Ann Scott and mother Ann

Page Number:   
1
Registration Number:   
HO107
Piece/Folio:   
312/3

still looking for John and Ann in 1851!
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:32 BST (UK)
Houghton Le Spring
Ann Scott   40
Elizabeth Scott   15
Margaet Scott   15
Ann Scott   10
 HO107; Piece: 312; Book: 15  Page: 1;

baptism
Ann Scott
12 Oct 1828 Rainton, Durham
father James Scott
mother Ann Scott
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:33 BST (UK)
sister margaret
bapt    1 Aug 1827
Father James Scott
mother Ann Scott
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:39 BST (UK)
Burials   (Durham records online)
Houghton-le-Spring   1838   
James   Scott    born abt 1782   
address Low Moorsley

I don't have a current sub for DRO sadly
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:42 BST (UK)
There is another Baptism for Ann Scott with Parents James and Ann
DRO again
Baptisms   
Rainton co Durham   
6 Oct 1830   
Ann   Scott      
address Low Moorsley

Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:47 BST (UK)
thankyou  :)
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:53 BST (UK)
This is the Bt of the burial found for James Scott. Image is faint but looks like he died Nov 4 and was buried Nov 6.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP9-93L?i=255&wc=9K5S-T3L%3A13618101%2C27228401%2C26601602&cc=1309819


William
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 17:57 BST (UK)
thankyou  :)

still having trouble finding John and Ann in 1851 - could they have gone to USA, left daughter with Ann's mam then Ann went few years later?
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 October 20 18:02 BST (UK)
And this is the baptism for Ann Scott. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP1-RQ?i=68&wc=9K5S-T3L%3A13618101%2C27228401%2C26601602&cc=1309819



Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 October 20 18:24 BST (UK)
James Scott who died in 1838 left a will.


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9396-ZRDH-R
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:00 BST (UK)
thankyou  :)

still having trouble finding John and Ann in 1851 - could they have gone to USA, left daughter with Ann's mam then Ann went few years later?

Well they didn't die so must have gone somewhere, but it doesn't mean they went to America.

I would follow Ann Scott's husband, John Martin, back in Durham to see if he also came from the same area as Ann. He is a bit older than her and my bet they ran off together.

Does the DNA suggest this is the connection?
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:20 BST (UK)
image of Ann Scott's baptism in 1830
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP1-RQ?i=68&wc=9K5S-T3L%3A13618101%2C27228401%2C26601602&cc=1309819

burial of older sister Ann Scott (one that was bapt in 1828)
Death of Ann Scott
burial 10 Feb 1830
Ann Scott dau of James Scott
age 1 1/2 years
abode East Rainton
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:26 BST (UK)
perhaps a cousin?
Rainton Chapel Houghton le Spring
7 Jul 1930
Elizabeth Scott
father THOMAS Scott
mother ANN Scott
address Moorsley
fathers occupation pitman

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP9-MCT?i=66&wc=9K5S-T3L%3A13618101%2C27228401%2C26601602&cc=1309819
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:46 BST (UK)
baptism of first Ann Scott 1828-1830
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP1-2Y?i=24&wc=9K5S-T3L%3A13618101%2C27228401%2C26601602&cc=1309819
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:21 BST (UK)
a very nice copy of the marriage certificate which confirms her mother as Ann Bulmer, no mention of her father though

http://www.wvculture.org/vrr/va_view2.aspx?FilmNumber=567389&ImageNumber=375
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:27 BST (UK)
thanks again for all the research you've done  :)

I think Joseph Bulmer and Ann Blackburn are our common ancestors - son Richard is my ancestor and son John is their ancestor.

A shared match with us is through Ann Blackburns second marriage so therefore would not be connected to a Bulmer who was another generation back.
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Ann was born in 1847 - if she went to USA 1852 or 1856 (as mentioned in usa census) she was only 5 or 9 so I don't think she ran away to America with her future husband!
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:33 BST (UK)
No but they were not always truthful on when stating when they arrived in America

From her marriage cert, it gives the impression she may have gone with her mother.
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:39 BST (UK)
this is who they have for her husband - John Martin born c1828 Hett, Durham

1851 census

Page Number:   
54
Registration Number:   
HO107
Piece/Folio:   
2392 / 203
Title: Re: The Brown Family
Post by: jc26red on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:53 BST (UK)
Yes I found that and it looks right.

I did find a Martin family with John and Ann but head of the family were not George and Elizabeth. Ages were a bit far out.

Just trying to think out of the box a little perhaps they were looking after Ann, who knows.