RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Barb Duke on Thursday 15 October 20 11:15 BST (UK)
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I am new to the site and am just saying Hello to all other users. I used the site a long time ago but have not done any research for a while.
can anyone out there give me info on where I might look for info on My gt4 or 5th grandfather DAVID SCOTT He was born in AMANDALE, Scotland in 1806. His father was JOHN SCOTT who is listed as Gentleman. David was married in Liverpool in 1837 and on census his is down as Joiner + smallware dealer.
What I would like to know is where is Amandale and where am I likely to find baptism records etc
I have some records from 1837 but would like to find out about his life before then.
Can any one through some light on this for me please. I would be glad of any help. Regards, Barb
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I am new to the site and am just saying Hello to all other users. I used the site a long time ago but have not done any research for a while.
According to your profile you've been a member since 2011 but perhaps you've forgotten an earlier Scott post-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812685.msg6731896#msg6731896
What I would like to know is where is Amandale and where am I likely to find baptism records etc
Don't you mean Annandale in Dumfriesshire? (which you gave as David's birthplace on the earlier topic)
I have a family member David SCOTT born 1806 .The birth place I have is Annandale Dumfies and Galloway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annandale
From the stickied posts at the top of the Dumfriesshire board-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=8864.0
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Could be Armadale
https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/bathgate/armadale/index.html
http://www.mapnall.com/en/Map-Armadale_1447274.html
armadale used to be barbauchlaw ??
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Welcome back to rootschat.
You might get more interest if you change title to include your ancestors name .and maybe ask admin to move post to a locality board when you know where Amme dale/Arnnandale is .
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Hello, Thank you for your replies. I had forgotten that I had registered with the group. I am sorry for the mistakes and duplicating messages from the past. The reasons for that is my computer crashed and had to get a new one. I lost all I had on it and it was only when I was going through old college papers that I found some family history stuff.
I am glad that I seem to have the spelling sorted out as I have a couple of different ones. It would be nice to get information on David. I have nothing official so the bit that I do have is really hit and miss. from a print of the census of 1861 in Nestor Terrace, Bootle, Liverpool. the spelling on that on is correct and as long as the age is also correct he was born in 1806... I also have a note that says born Amandale 1806, Father John Scott, Gentleman.
can you advise me where I might find any records or information to help me with my research please?
Once again I apologise for my stupid mistakes and put it down to old age and medication making me go daft
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can you advise me where I might find any records or information to help me with my research please?
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the best source.
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What is the source of the information you have on the location of birth, or baptism, of your 4/5x gt grandfather Davis Scott? You state you have a "note" stating he was born in "Amandale 1806, father John Scott, Gentleman". What is the nature of this note please?
Annandale is in Dumfriesshire and exists today. There is the Annandale and Eskdale Estate which has Earl Annandale and Hartfell, Lord Johnstone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Annandale_and_Hartfell
There are some records which indicate a link between the Scott name and the Duke of Buccleuch.
https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrasregister/browse2.aspx?reference=NRAS1&
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annandale
Have you tried to find a baptism for him?
Jo
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Thank you for that. I am not on that but I will sort it and look but I have tried so much today that my eyes wont stay open. I think I might be trying to do to much as once as I am working on my Simpson/Smiths in London 1870 /1890's . I think I need to give it a rest for a couple of hours and then try Scotland's People. At least I know the correct name and place to look now
once again thank you for replying Barbara
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I agree that the birthplace in the 1861 census says Amandale but I assume this to be an enumerator's misreading of Annandale. Armadale is possible, as suggested, but that would require the enumerator to have made two errors.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/00000269 is a map showing Annandale.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400173 and https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400175 show the parishes in and near Annandale, so you are looking for a baptism in one of those parishes.
His age in 1861 is listed at 55, which, if it is accurate, implies that he was born between 8 April 1805 and 7 April 1806. This is consistent with the 1851 census, which says he was 45, the 1871, which says 65, and the 1881, which says 75.
However the 1841 says he was 34. If accurate this would give a birth date between 8 June 1806 and 7 June 1807. As these dates don't overlap with the 1851, either the 1841 age is wrong or the 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 are all wrong.
Did his father's name come from his marriage certificate?
Unfortunately there is no readily available record of the baptism of a son David to a father named John Scott anywhere in Dumfries-shire between 1800 and 1810. So either there never was a record of the baptism, or the record has not survived, or there is a small possibility that he was baptised in a denominations whose surviving registers are not among those digitised by Scotland's People, for example the records of the Scottish Episcopal Church. Their surviving records are still in the churches, or in diocesan, local or university archives, and it takes a bit of sleuthing to find them.
As David's father was a 'gentleman', it would be worth looking though the wills and testaments on the Scotland's People web site.
To see if John Scott owned land, it would be necessary to consult the Register of Sasines, but that requires a visit to the National Records of Scotland, which is currently closed because of Covid-19 and unlikely to reopen before March 2021.
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The note I have is really just a piece of paper with his name and Gentleman written on it. I dont remember writing it. I know nothing about DAVID SCOTT except from notes from a census Liverpool 1861. That is where I first found him whilst I was looking for his daughter Eliza> It looks like he was married twice but I am still looking. I will look into the other links you gave me. I would really like to find his mothers name and about her, where he was baptised etc. He wasn't married in Scotland as I have his 1st marriage in Liverpool
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I think this is going to be harder than I thought and need to clear my brain which feels fit to burst with all I am trying to take in. Including using the laptop. Thank you all for your help, I will slowly work my way through your advice
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I see that in 1841 he is in a household with Cathrine Scott, 12 and Alfred Scott, 2.
There are several Alfred Scotts born in 1838-1839, but only one in Liverpool, in the December quarter of 1838, mother's maiden surname Wharton.
That's a long gap between Cathrine and Alfred. Was Miss Wharton possibly David's second wife?
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I lost everything I had on laptop when it died but when sorting pape3rs to get rid of I found some in with my college stuff ( I was a mature student). One of these pages had following written on it
CATHERINE WHARTON
BIRTH DATE 6 JULY 1814
BAPTISED 9 JULY 1814
PLACE ST PETERS PRIORY, LIVERPOOL
FATHER JOHN WHARTON
MOTHER JANE WHARTON
MARRIED DAVID SCOTT 1837 St PHILIP LIVERPOOL
BURRIED MARCH 17 1846 NECROPOLICE CEMETRY LIVERPOOL
DIED OF CONSUMPTION
CHILDREN ALFRED 1838
AGNES LORAIN 1844 L'POOL 20 500
on bottom of pge is written ROOTSCHAT ID Barb nd password
i dont remember this page at all but it is my writting.
i am sorting these papers as I am writting this.
I have on another page
2nd marriage ELIZA MCDOWALL 1846 L'POOL 20 346
WALTER 1848
ELIZA JANE 1850 L'POOL 20 459
If I get a chance over the weekend I will carry on sorting the papers and will check the reg. numbers then maybe get certs.
It is ELIZA JANE i am interested in as she is my 3rd or 4th gt grandmother
Thankyou all for your help and being so patient with an old fool
now to other message. I am almost sure that the gap betweeb Catherine and Alfred is because for the 2 marriages
I think catherine Wharton was a Milliner
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Hmmm.
If Catherine Wharton was born in 1814, then Catherine could not be the mother of a child born in 1828/1829.
There are three births of children in Liverpool, mother's maiden surname Wharton, between 1837 and 1846
Alfred, 1838, December quarter
Agnes, 1841, March quarter (must have died in early infancy as she's not in the 1841 census)
Agnes Lorain, 1844, June quarter
It is clear from the 1851 census that Alfred and Agnes Lorain are brother and sister, therefore they have the same mother, therefore the age listed for Catherine in 1841 has to be wrong. (Even though it is perfectly clear in the original - see attached.) If Catherine Wharton was born on 9 July 1814, she was 26 on census day 1814, and should have been recorded as aged 25, not aged 12!
But if the 12-year-old Catherine in the 1841 census is correct, who is she, and more to the point, where is David's wife Catherine Wharton or Scott?
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From the earlier thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812685.0 it seems clear enough that there was a John Scott married to an Agnes Lorrain who lived in the parish of Annan and had a family there between 1789 and 1799.
As your David named two daughters Agnes, and gave one of them the middle name Lorrain, it looks almost certain that these must have been his parents. I don't think the lack of a baptism record necessarily precludes your David being another child of John Scott and Agnes Lorrain.