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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: hemselld on Saturday 17 October 20 17:31 BST (UK)
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Hello all, hope you are well and staying safe. I am looking for a birth record and marriage record for a Sarah Newton born in 1836 in Ealing. Sadly I have no info for her parents. Her marriage was to William Gough of Nottinghill/Ealing before their childs birth in 1860. I can't find them on the census in 1861, their son was born at 14 St Jame's street Kennsington 1860, the mother and son William appeared living with someone else as their wife and son in 1871 sandiacre under the name Thurston, but Robert Thurston couldn't be the farther as he was living in suffolk with his parents when William was born. Sorry for all the onfo, but trying to narrow this down to make it easier. any help or advice would really be appreciated.
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Is this the sons birth registration in 1859. :-\
GOUGH, WILLIAM EDWARD mmn NEWTON
1859 December Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 53
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The only 1871 entry shows a Sarah Thurston b 1836 Ealing living with a Francis Robinson Thurston (not Robert) in Derbyshire? Son William Edward b 1860 Notting Hill
Francis Robinson Thurston married in 1879 - but not to Sarah
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I can't readily see a marriage between William Gough and Sarah Newton. FreeBMD - using William Gough and surname Newton - shows no results.
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There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
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There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
Thank you, that's something to look at, but I think she would have still had her maiden name Newton, it's so confusing, thank you
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Newton may not be her maiden name, she would not have had to give any proof of her name when the birth was registered. Did she register the birth or was it her supposed husband
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I can't readily see a marriage between William Gough and Sarah Newton. FreeBMD - using William Gough and surname Newton - shows no results.
Hi, thank you, I found that problem, there is only one for these and that's in 1769 but they would be to old to have had William in 1860, its strange how there is no record of a marriage
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Newton may not be her maiden name, she would not have had to give any proof of her name when the birth was registered. Did she register the birth or was it her supposed husband
This is where its confusing for me. The father is William on the birth certificate, on William's marriage certificate there is no father listed. There is a baptism record for William with the parents William Thomas Gough and Sarah gough in 1861 in Ealing which fits, but on his birth cert he is William Edward, this one is William Thomas, although his full name was William Edward Thomas Gough
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I can't readily see a marriage between William Gough and Sarah Newton. FreeBMD - using William Gough and surname Newton - shows no results.
It's all so strange
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Is this the sons birth registration in 1859. :-\
GOUGH, WILLIAM EDWARD mmn NEWTON
1859 December Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 53
Yes it is
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Is this the sons birth registration in 1859. :-\
GOUGH, WILLIAM EDWARD mmn NEWTON
1859 December Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 53
Yes that's him
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The only 1871 entry shows a Sarah Thurston b 1836 Ealing living with a Francis Robinson Thurston (not Robert) in Derbyshire? Son William Edward b 1860 Notting Hill
Francis Robinson Thurston married in 1879 - but not to Sarah
Yes, Francis was living with his mum in Suffolk when William was born, no marriage between them
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Welcome to RootsChat,
Really sorry, but William and Sarah may not have married. My great grandfather had 17 children with two different women, neither of whom he married. One of the children has the mother's name on the registration, but the others were all registered with his name. This was at the same time period that you have indicated.
Nell
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There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
With parents James & Rachel in Ealing in 1851
HO107 / Piece 1699 Folio 79 Page 22
also 1841
HO107 /Piece 689 bk 9 f26 p6
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Welcome to RootsChat,
Really sorry, but William and Sarah may not have married. My great grandfather had 17 children with two different women, neither of whom he married. One of the children has the mother's name on the registration, but the others were all registered with his name. This was at the same time period that you have indicated.
Nell
Thank you. Thats a thought, obviously cant go by named people on the birth certificate. Williams father is named as is the mother with formley Newton. This family is really a mystery, I've been stuck on it for over 3 years now.
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Who was the informant on the birth certificate of William Edward
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There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
With parents James & Rachel in Ealing in 1851
HO107 / Piece 1699 Folio 79 Page 22
also 1841
HO107 /Piece 689 bk 9 f26 p6
Thank you I will have a look at that
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Newton may not be her maiden name, she would not have had to give any proof of her name when the birth was registered. Did she register the birth or was it her supposed husband
She registered it
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Have you found her or William on the 1881 census?
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Have you found her or William on the 1881 census?
Not his mum, but he is now married to Rachel formerly Bostock and now living in Ilkeston which is just up the rd from Sandiacre where a similar William born In Nottinhill with his mum Sarah from Ealing registered as the wife of Francis Robert Thurston, for whom no marriage cert exists and Francis was living with his mum in 186o in Suffolk. All baffling
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Possibly of interest. James and Rachael Gough have two daughters born after civil registration began, both are with them on the 1851 census. One (I'm unsure of her name; it looks like Rachael, but also looks different from her mother's name) aged 11 and Eliza aged 9. Both born in Ealing, which is in Brentford district.
GRO index shows a Rachel Gough Mmn Newton registered Dec Q 1837 in Brentford district, and a death of a Rachel Gough age 0 in March Q 1838. In September Q there is an unnamed female Gough child Mmn Newton registered. Eliza remains elusive, unfortunately - but at this early time not all births were registered.
James and Rachael Gough name their birthplaces as Heath, Oxfordshire, and Hughendon, Buckinghamshire respectively.
A Rachel Newton daughter of Thomas and Rachel was baptised at Hughendon on 17 April 1801 (Rachael is aged 50 in 1851).
I can't see a marriage, but if it was in Buckinghamshire, it may not be online.
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Good find Gallium :).
I think that is very likely to be why the name Newton was being used as a maiden name, it is not the first time that I have seen illegitimate births being registered with their maternal grandmothers surname being given as a maiden name.
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Baptism of Sarah Gough born 30 March 1835 daughter of James and Rachel at West Twyford, Ealing on 10 May 1835. James is a victualler, as he is in baptism records of his and Rachel's other children at West Twyford or Ealing, including the two Rachels, and Eliza.
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Baptism of Sarah Gough born 30 March 1835 daughter of James and Rachel at West Twyford, Ealing on 10 May 1835. James is a victualler, as he is in baptism records of his and Rachel's other children at West Twyford or Ealing, including the two Rachels, and Eliza.
Thank you I will look into this, it certainly is a mine field
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Possibly of interest. James and Rachael Gough have two daughters born after civil registration began, both are with them on the 1851 census. One (I'm unsure of her name; it looks like Rachael, but also looks different from her mother's name) aged 11 and Eliza aged 9. Both born in Ealing, which is in Brentford district.
GRO index shows a Rachel Gough Mmn Newton registered Dec Q 1837 in Brentford district, and a death of a Rachel Gough age 0 in March Q 1838. In September Q there is an unnamed female Gough child Mmn Newton registered. Eliza remains elusive, unfortunately - but at this early time not all births were registered.
James and Rachael Gough name their birthplaces as Heath, Oxfordshire, and Hughendon, Buckinghamshire respectively.
A Rachel Newton daughter of Thomas and Rachel was baptised at Hughendon on 17 April 1801 (Rachael is aged 50 in 1851).
I can't see a marriage, but if it was in Buckinghamshire, it may not be online.
I didn't know that, certainly something I can follow up, it's quite possible she didn't give the correct address of birth as it was in St James street kensington, and I was told it was a posh area
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Possibly of interest. James and Rachael Gough have two daughters born after civil registration began, both are with them on the 1851 census. One (I'm unsure of her name; it looks like Rachael, but also looks different from her mother's name) aged 11 and Eliza aged 9. Both born in Ealing, which is in Brentford district.
GRO index shows a Rachel Gough Mmn Newton registered Dec Q 1837 in Brentford district, and a death of a Rachel Gough age 0 in March Q 1838. In September Q there is an unnamed female Gough child Mmn Newton registered. Eliza remains elusive, unfortunately - but at this early time not all births were registered.
James and Rachael Gough name their birthplaces as Heath, Oxfordshire, and Hughendon, Buckinghamshire respectively.
A Rachel Newton daughter of Thomas and Rachel was baptised at Hughendon on 17 April 1801 (Rachael is aged 50 in 1851).
I can't see a marriage, but if it was in Buckinghamshire, it may not be online.
Thank you for this, I really do appreciate it and everyone elses hard work, now searching this all up, thank you
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St James Street, Kensington in later census shows many houses with more than one household.
The reference for 1861 is RG09/ Piece 17 Folio 71 Page 65
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And you have to recall that even in 'affluent' areas there may be streets of much less affluent households where servants and tradesmen lived.
I have a few records in Marylebone, Hanover Square etc where my ancestors are anything but high class.
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Baptism of Sarah Gough born 30 March 1835 daughter of James and Rachel at West Twyford, Ealing on 10 May 1835. James is a victualler, as he is in baptism records of his and Rachel's other children at West Twyford or Ealing, including the two Rachels, and Eliza.
Thank you I will look into this, it certainly is a mine field
For info. there is a public tree on Ancestry for the above family with census info. etc. you would need to verify info....
James Gough
18001878
Parent Richard Gough Elizabeth Jones
Rachel Newton
18011865
Parents Thomas Newton
Children
Elizabeth Gough 1827 - 1908
Married 1848 William Hall Marden
John Gough
18271886
married 1850 Jael Carter
Mary Gough
18311856
Burial 13 Jul 1856 age 25
James Gough
18341905
Married 18 Jul 1864 Christ Church, Ealing
Spouse Louisa Gould
Sarah Gough
18351862
St George Hanover Sq London
Rachel Gough
18371838
Rachel Gough 18391861 burial 2 Aug 1861 St Mary, Ealing
Spouse Edward Lemm
Edward James Lemm 11 Jun 1861 bapt Christ Church Ealing
father Edward mother Rachel
Edward James Lemm , infant 18 Jun 1861 Burial St Mary, Ealing
Eliza Gough
18421924
spouse William John Newell
The Will of James Gough late of Ealing beer-seller died 25 Dec 1878 at Ealing
Probate 13 Jan 1879 William Newell, baker
EDIT to add - perhaps the above death of Mary Gough in 1856 is incorrect :-\
Rachel LEMM and her son Edward are living with her married sister Mary
and her husband John MARTIN (bricklayer) on 1861 c RG 9; Piece: 782; Folio: 40; Page: 2
There is this 1856 marriage
John MARTIN , bricklayer to Mary GOUGH father JAMES Gough occupation Labourer
One witness James NEWTON
and
1891 c RG12; Piece: 1039; Folio: 4; Page: 1
Mary MARTIN born Ealing has visitors
Alice NEWELL single age 17 Ealing and Alice Newell 1 week
Not investigated but I think Alice (age 17) is the daughter of William & Eliza Newell (nee Gough)
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I see on that Ancestry tree that they have Sarah as dying in 1862, the burial for that death is on Deceased online
SARAH GOUGH
burial date 19 April 1862
location Kensington And Chelsea
There is one other burial in that grave.
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I see on that Ancestry tree that they have Sarah as dying in 1862, the burial for that death is on Deceased online
SARAH GOUGH
burial date 19 April 1862
location Kensington And Chelsea
There is one other burial in that grave.
Thank you, I don't think that is her, she was still a live in 1871 in sandiacre, supposedly the wife of Robert Francis Thurston. With help from here it has also all fallen into place, she actually used her mums maiden name of Newton as she wasn't married.
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You really need to eliminate that death in order to discount the Gough line with mothers maiden name Newton that has been suggested
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You really need to eliminate that death in order to discount the Gough line with mothers maiden name Newton that has been suggested
I will look in to thank you, its certainly being a challenge
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Possibly of interest. James and Rachael Gough have two daughters born after civil registration began, both are with them on the 1851 census. One (I'm unsure of her name; it looks like Rachael, but also looks different from her mother's name) aged 11 and Eliza aged 9. Both born in Ealing, which is in Brentford district.
GRO index shows a Rachel Gough Mmn Newton registered Dec Q 1837 in Brentford district, and a death of a Rachel Gough age 0 in March Q 1838. In September Q there is an unnamed female Gough child Mmn Newton registered. Eliza remains elusive, unfortunately - but at this early time not all births were registered.
James and Rachael Gough name their birthplaces as Heath, Oxfordshire, and Hughendon, Buckinghamshire respectively.
A Rachel Newton daughter of Thomas and Rachel was baptised at Hughendon on 17 April 1801 (Rachael is aged 50 in 1851).
I can't see a marriage, but if it was in Buckinghamshire, it may not be online.
Thank you for this, it all seems to fit, and makes a lot of sense
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Is this the sons birth registration in 1859. :-\
GOUGH, WILLIAM EDWARD mmn NEWTON
1859 December Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 53
Yes that's him
There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
With parents James & Rachel in Ealing in 1851
HO107 / Piece 1699 Folio 79 Page 22
also 1841
HO107 /Piece 689 bk 9 f26 p6
Has William Edward Gough been found on 1861 census ?
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Is this the sons birth registration in 1859. :-\
GOUGH, WILLIAM EDWARD mmn NEWTON
1859 December Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 53
Yes that's him
There is an 1861 entry for an unmarried Sarah Gough b 1835 Ealing working as a House servant in Marylebone
With parents James & Rachel in Ealing in 1851
HO107 / Piece 1699 Folio 79 Page 22
also 1841
HO107 /Piece 689 bk 9 f26 p6
Has William Edward Gough been found on 1861 census ?
No he hasn't, it's such a mystery, the only possible record of him is in sandiacre in 1871 under a different surname
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There is this 1861 census entry for a William Edward GOUGH bn 1859 grandson
but his birth is dittoed as Birmingham Worcester - I cant see a connection to the surname Newton ???
Piece: 2088
Folio: 42
Page Number: 22
Edward William 58
Hannah William 58
Eliza William 26
Charlotte William 23
David Williams 17
William Edward GOUGH 2 grandson
Charles Turner 17
Edit to add they had a daughter named Elizabeth perhaps she married a Gough :-\
Dec 1854
Badham Ann W Bromwich 6b 1042
Gough Thomas Walter West Bromwich 6b 1042
Turner Joseph West Bromwich 6b 1042
Williams Elizabeth West Bromwich 6b 1042
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There is this 1861 census entry for a William Edward GOUGH bn 1859 grandson
but his birth is dittoed as Birmingham Worcester - I cant see a connection to the surname Newton ???
Piece: 2088
Folio: 42
Page Number: 22
Edward William 58
Hannah William 58
Eliza William 26
Charlotte William 23
David Williams 17
William Edward GOUGH 2 grandson
Charles Turner 17
Edit to add they had a daughter named Elizabeth perhaps she married a Gough :-\
Dec 1854
Badham Ann W Bromwich 6b 1042
Gough Thomas Walter West Bromwich 6b 1042
Turner Joseph West Bromwich 6b 1042
Williams Elizabeth West Bromwich 6b 1042
Thank you, it's strange where he has been from his birth to arriving in Ilkeston in 1881, possibly 1871 in sandiacre