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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cambridgeshire => England => Cambridgeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: luckygirl57 on Saturday 12 December 20 10:49 GMT (UK)
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Morning,
I need help trying to find any info on Mary Ann Titterton from BEFORE her marriage in 1871 to Joseph Padgett Clark. They married in Tottenham, but no hints as to her father on the bann/marriage.
Only info I have on her is from the 1891 census. Her birthplace is Ely, Cambridgeshire, born 1847, living in Newington, west Kennington with husband and 6 children,
Our family has a letter from 1887, when "they have 7 children in all", but I can not find the 7th one, though I believe from another hint in the letter, the 7th child is possibly married, the oldest, and female; possibly a child of Mary Ann's from a prior relationship? Illegitimate? Or Joseph's child from 1st marriage to Lois Lineker (she died 1868 age 27), though I can find no record of a birth.
Mary Ann survived her husband J.P., who died in 1899, Southwark, as she is on the probate record, but I can not locate her.
Need help to find any Mary Ann Titterton birth record in Ely?
Need help to find Mary Ann Clark widow after 1899.
Need help to find that 7th child.
I only have access to Ancestry records, not FindMyPast.
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CLARK, HENRY TITTERTON mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 587
CLARK, CHARLES ALBERT TITTERTON mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 681
CLARK, MARY ANN FRANCES mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 165
CLARK, JOSEPH TITTERTON mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 119
CLARK, ARTHUR TITTERTON mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in ST SAVIOURS SURREY Volume 01D Page 143
CLARK, EDITH mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 834
CLARK, EDWARD mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in ST SAVIOUR, SURREY Volume 01D Page 170
1891 has
Henry, Charles, Mary, Alfred, Joseph & Edith
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Transcribed as Kent in 1881?
Hard to read the original
St Mary Newington
piece 543 folio 85 page 47
Mary Ann 34 born Ely
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-HC5H
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I had wondered about this one, I see from the census John has posted that it is a possibility
CLARK, FREDERICK WILLIAM TITTERTON mmn TITTERTON
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in REIGATE UNION Volume 02A Page 147
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Marriage cert 1871 has blank for both bride and grooms parents
Who is the Nightingale family, 1871 witnesses Charles William and Mary Jane 1871, also seems another marriage cert later signed by Nightingale
1851
Joseph appears in the census
James BRAMLEY 35
Frances Bramley 28
Joseph Clark 8 son
William Bramley 4 son
Fanny Bramley 4 months all born Notts
so it is possible Joseph P was born out of wedlock
James Bramley married 1845 Southwell to Frances Clark
Louisa Maud
added, 1871 James P is a cook as a boarder in Reigate
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Baptism
Frederick William Titterton Clark
b 9th April ?
bpt 14th July 1872
Redhill Independent
parents Joseph Paget & Mary Ann
father's occ Cook at Earlswood, Surrey
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as usual you people are amazing!!!!
The Nightingales - I want to know as well. John Nightingale is on the probate of Joseph, with Mary Ann
Yes Joseph was illegit. I know all about his origins - thanks
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Baptism
Frederick William Titterton Clark
b 9th April ?
bpt 14th July 1872
Redhill Independent
parents Joseph Paget & Mary Ann
father's occ Cook at Earlswood, Surrey
That is good, it ties in nicely with the 1872 Reigate birth registration ;D
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The Nightingales - I want to know as well. John Nightingale is on the probate of Joseph, with Mary Ann
Have you purchased the will of Joseph.
The probate index gives an address for him of 39 Kennington Park Road - John Nightingales occupation is a builder
ADDED Mary Ann is not at that address in 1901
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I have not purchased the probate, but I can see what info is available on Ancestry website.
The Nightingales are life long associates - 3 or 4 of them, in various docs - Charles, Jennie, Mary, John
Thanks Rosie, once again!
And thanks to all!!! What a great bunch of help!
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I might not be on the right line but worth checking please
1871 RG10/3627 F 62 P 8 all siblings alone with no parents as far as I can see and all born Derbyshire
Mary Ann Titterton 23 farmers daughter
John 21
Thomas 18
William 11
All of these siblings seem to have MMN Oldfield
Is this possible
Marr 1844 John Titterton to Ellen Oldfield
So I went back to 1861 RG9/2540 F 16 P 14
John Titterton aged 39 farmer
Ellen 42
Mary Ann 13
John 11
Thomas 8
Sarah Elizabeth
William Henry Beckitt (?) Titterton 1 all maiden names Oldfield
Mary ? poss Beckitt mother aged 78
All born Derbyshire
It is worth checking these census out but I cannot confirm this is your Mary Ann, if so how strange no fathers name on marriage cert for bride and groom, was it a mistake ??
Louisa Maud
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Baptism
Frederick William Titterton Clark
b 9th April ?
bpt 14th July 1872
Redhill Independent
parents Joseph Paget & Mary Ann
father's occ Cook at Earlswood, Surrey
Could that be the Asylum
https://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/themes/subjects/disability-history/royal-earlswood/
In 1871 there is a Mary Ann Marshall, 24, born Cambridgeshire Ely, a servant at the asylum in Earlswood, Redhill.
piece 833 folio 111 page 4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRNW-CX2
In 1861 she might be a servant in Islington
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-FT8Z
Other than that, nothing on Mary Ann Marshall so far.
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I have not purchased the probate, but I can see what info is available on Ancestry website.
The Nightingales are life long associates - 3 or 4 of them, in various docs - Charles, Jennie, Mary, John
Thanks Rosie, once again!
And thanks to all!!! What a great bunch of help!
Ancestry / Probate index only gives the names of the executors who are not necessarily the beneficiaries. I see he only left a relatively small amount.
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All born Derbyshire
It is worth checking these census out but I cannot confirm this is your Mary Ann, if so how strange no fathers name on marriage cert for bride and groom, was it a mistake ??
Louisa Maud
sorry, I'm not proficient with this Quote function- I hope this turns out alright
- Derbyshire seems to be the wrong county for my Mary Ann.
On 2 different censuses 1881 and 1891 she gives birthplace as Ely, Cambridgeshire.
As for no info on the marriage banns for her father - maybe since her husband Joseph couldn't give his father's name (illegit) it would have "looked bad" for her to give that info???
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Normally if they were worried about covering illegitimacy and one of the couples father was known then they would have invented a father for the illegitimate one.
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I agree lucky girl but it is always a good idea to look outside the box as it were, I agree Derbyshire is some way away, I did suggest you had a look as I wasn't completely sure, in that case I can't find her anywhere, she seem evasive, wold have thought 1901 she might still have child living with her
Happy Hunting
LM
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I have so far found 3 marriages of the Clark children
1901 Charles
1894 Henry
1905 Mary Frances
Not one of these are witnessed by a parent
Still can't find her on 1901
LM
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In 1901 daughters Mary Ann Frances Clark & Edith Clark are boarding with Caroline Brown at RG13/382 Folio 19 Page 30
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I have so far found 3 marriages of the Clark children
1905 Mary Frances
Not one of these are witnessed by a parent
Marriage of Mary Frances witnessed by Jennie Nightingale, C Nightingale, John Nightingale
Free index to 1911 has John Nightingale, 66, Builder, in Marylebone
Children include Charles (might be C the witness :-\ ) and Jenny
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLJ-K5M
Marriage of John at Tottenham, 21 May 1866
John Nightingale, 20, Coach painter, father Charles William Nightingale, Coach painter
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Selina Sophia Clements, 22
Witnesses are C W Nightingale, Mary Jane Nightingale.
Could be the same witnesses as for the Clark - Titterton marriage in Tottenham in 1871
Charles W Nightingale, 57, Coach Painter, and family, in Tottenham in 1871
piece 1338 folio 41 page 22
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF6C-QRL
So they may perhaps be the Nightingale family who keep popping up.
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The Nightingales are a pretty close family, I wonder if they are related in some way
LM
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Thank you Jon65w and LM;
I have often wondered if the Nightingales were related, but have found no evidence. I am pretty sure they are not related to Joseph, but Mary Ann's family is still a mystery. There are so many MAry Ann Marshalls, though that is an interesting find, I can not find more of a link to Mary Ann Titterton, yet.
Can anyone tell me WHO lived at 46 sharsted street Newington in 1887?
The clue in the letter, is the return address, "daughter's friend's husband's address" is 46 Sharsted. That is why I believed JP and Mary Ann had a daughter old enough to have a married friend in 1887, and believed the missing 7th child was a female.
The family lives at 9 Flinton St on the 1881 census, but then by the 1891 census they live at 46 Sharsted (transpo error to Shouted St)
.
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This child would have been on 1881 wouldn't she? or am I misunderstanding
LM
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Ahh yes, you are right LM...
I didn’t have time to reprocess my thoughts after someone found them on the 1881 census today.
still something odd, about the note written in the corner of the letter regarding the address. I will have to think again
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If Lois(e)married in 1866 in Newark and died in 1868 aged 27 in Newark she would be born circa 1841
I have found a birth Lois Lineker Dec qtr 1840 Leicester, is this a possibility
So far I can't find a birth for a child born to Joseph and Lois MMN Lineker between 1866 and 1868
Louisa Maud
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If Lois(e)married in 1866 in Newark and died in 1868 aged 27 in Newark she would be born circa 1841
I have found a birth Lois Lineker Dec qtr 1840 Leicester, is this a possibility
So far I can't find a birth for a child born to Joseph and Lois MMN Lineker between 1866 and 1868
Louisa Maud
Yes that is Joseph's 1st wife. I also could not find any children born to them. She may have died in childbirth? I thought they may have had a daughter, but no record
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That is what I thought, a child born from Lois and Joseph who was talked abut in the letter, so back to the drawing board
LM
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pqIEdvb_cp6-JOX3gJwqGrzBIEFEx1xn/view?usp=sharing
so maybe I am reading the top left corner wrong.... I believe it says "our daughters friends husbands address"
added: apologies for having the google link settings incorrect at first. I think it is fixed now
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Who has signed the letter
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Joseph Padgett Clark, Mary Ann’s husband, wrote it to his cousin Robert Clark in Canada
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Doesn't take us any nearer to Mary
LM
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Clark, Joseph P
burial date 07 December 1899
location Southwark
He appears to be in a grave with several others, I doubt that Mary A was in there with him.
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Communal grave I imagine.
LM
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Well, I seem to have exhausted all avenues at the moment, Mary Ann could have remarried or lived with another family and taken on their name, I think sometimes this family has been given the surname Clarke with the E added
You would have thought one of her 9 children would have known where she was, well only 7 after 2 deaths
Louisa Maud
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Can anyone tell me WHO lived at 46 sharsted street Newington in 1887?
Online electoral registers seem only to go back to 1890
Joseph Padgett Clark was listed there in that year
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9FL-QQ82
He was letting or sub-letting rooms there, combined rent of 10/6 per week for at least three of them
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89FL-Q3NL
Joseph Padgett Clark is in the PO London Directory for 1900 (still listed 1901), letting apartments at 39 Kennington Park Road.
The only outside possibility I can see for Mary in 1901 is in Bexhill, Sussex.
piece 875 folio 39 page 11
Mary A Clark Lodger Widow 55 Living on own means, born Cambs Cambridge
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNT-63Q
There is a death reg of a Mary Ann Clark in Battle in June 1901, age 54, but she may the wife of Thomas Clark, gardener, who has remarried a few years later to a much younger woman. But I don't know.
It seems as though the Nightingales must have been good friends to either Joseph or Mary when they married, and then to both of them and their family.
There was a nurse child in the Nightingale household in 1871, Thomas P Fox, 2, born Holloway.
Possible death in Edmonton, in the June quarter that year, of Thomas Powell Fox, 2.
Was he registered in March 1869, Islington, as Thomas Richard Fox? Mother's maiden surname blank.
Could the Nightingale family have done something similar previously? Is it possible that Mary Ann was taken in by them, becoming a kind of member of the family?
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I think we really need to find Mary Ann on 1871, have we found her yet ?
LM
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I think we really need to find Mary Ann on 1871, have we found her yet ?
LM
The nearest to finding Mary A in 1871 was John's find of a Mary Ann Marshall born Ely in Earlswood.
Joseph Clark was living in Earlswood in 1871.
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Wonder where her unusual surname came from?
LM
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There is a John A P Titterton in Ely (born c1832), he married a Hannah King in 1858.
Hannah King is in a tree that I researched some time ago, I had better get my old laptop out though I don't remember researching the Titterton line very thoroughly.
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The only outside possibility I can see for Mary in 1901 is in Bexhill, Sussex.
piece 875 folio 39 page 11
Mary A Clark Lodger Widow 55 Living on own means, born Cambs Cambridge
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNT-
BIngo!
Mary Ann had a son who lived in Bexhill in 1901
Alfred, postman, spouse Mary, daug Gwendoline
Mary Ann is not living with them but this seems to be the closest relative in the closest location
Good work Jon!!!
I meant to make that a quote but apparently that function on this site is still not my forte :-\
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you are all amazing! Thank you so much
Rosie - John Titterton's wife Hannah seems to have died and he remarried a much younger woman Elizabeth.
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If found on 1911 it should show how many births she had
LM
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Rosie - John Titterton's wife Hannah seems to have died and he remarried a much younger woman Elizabeth.
I saw that she had died and he had remarried. The link to Hannah King that I was researching was through her brother Charles, I did not look at his siblings.
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"Mary Ann had a son who lived in Bexhill in 1901"
Any idea of his name?
LM
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yes
son name is Alfred Ernest Clark, born 1878, postman 1901 Bexhill
wife Mary, daughter Gwendoline
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yes
son name is Alfred Ernest Clark, born 1878, postman 1901 Bexhill
wife Mary, daughter Gwendoline
Born 1877 :)
CLARK, ALFRED ERNEST mmn TILTERTON
GRO Reference: 1877 Sept Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 112
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Is this him?
Alfred Ernest Clark
born 1877 S qtr
St Saviour Surrey
MMN TILTERTON
LM
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SORRY ROSIE, SNAP !!
LM
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MARRIAGE 18/06/1899
St Saviour's Lambeth
Alfred Ernest Clark aged 23 father Joseph Padgett Clark
to
Mary Davis aged 23 father Jeffrey Davis Police Inspector
both of 8 Hinton Road
wit Ellen Sarah Davis and Joseph Titterton Clark
LM
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Gwendoline Eliza Mary Clark
Baptised 29/04/1900 St Saviour Ruskin Park
birth 08/01/1900
of Alfred Ernest and Mary
of
60 Holland Road
Occ postman
so far no further info
LM
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So, are we now assuming Mary might have died in the Sussex area
Did Gwendoline and her parents emigrate?
LM
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yes that is my Alfred Ernest Clark and family in St Saviour, so
I guess what I need now is to positively link him to the postman in Bexhill in 1901?
He lives one block away from the Mary A Clark widow in Bexhill
I do not know what happened to the family if that is not them in Bexhill.
I have found a Gwendoline Clark st george Hanover square at school in London in 1911? Right one?
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would it be helpful to include my Ancestry.com user name and tree here?
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He lives one block away from the Mary A Clark widow in Bexhill
I have found a Gwendoline Clark st george Hanover square at school in London in 1911? Right one?
Have you looked at online maps to see where Wickham Avenue & Windsor Road are in relation to each other. :)
I think it is possibly St Barnabus orphanage rather than a school. Have you checked the related documents for that address
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Have you looked at online maps to see where Wickham Avenue & Windsor Road are in relation to each other. :)
I think it is possibly St Barnabus orphanage rather than a school. Have you checked the related documents for that address
yes - addresses in Bexhill are one block from each other
Orphanage is correct too! if that is my Alfred's daughter Gwendoline.... then either or both of her parents died before 1911. That would be a bit of a long shot, living in Bexhill in 1901, then ending up in an orphange back in London by 1911, when she had aunts and uncles who might have taken her in?
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Just a suggestion, now you have Gwendoline' s date of birth have you checked 1939, can't be many Gwendoline' s I wouldn't have thought
LM
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there is a Gwendoline Clarke, father Ernest Clarke, school admission 1905
BUT Her DOB is exactly the same as on the baptism record I have saved
their address is 46 Reedworth Street, Lambeth
The family in Bexhill seemed to fit so perfectly. Did they move to Bexhill only temporarily in 1901? Was that very unlikely for postal workers back then? Or is the family in Bexhill just gaslighting me :-\
still no closer are we?
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As I mentioned before Clark with or without an E,makes it so much more difficult
1905 must be the same child if her D of B is the same, but dad now Ernest!!
LM
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British Postal Service Appointment Books, on ancestry
October 1900
Alfred Ernest Clark, Postman, Bexhill on Sea
I really don't know if this is connected, but a birth
CLARK, RITA EILEEN DAVIS
Mother's Maiden Surname: DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 323
Then in the free index to 1911 census
Rita Clark, 4, in St George Hanover Square
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLJ-Q75
Possibly in the same institution as Gwendoline Clark "born Loughborough"?
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Think Gwendoline' s place of birth is wrong, registered Lambeth
LM
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Rita baptised 1909, so her parents were still around , they surely must be on 1911.
LM
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Rita baptised 1909, so her parents were still around
A change in occupation for Alfred Ernest. Private Detective!
Abode 2 Railway Approach, Tooting Junction
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Possible in the free index to 1911 census
Alfred Clark, 33, born Walworth. Detective Expert! We could do with him on Rootschat.
Wife is Beatrice here, not Mary.
Living in Streatham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5K-PQ5
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From this there appears to be a child
Alexander Clark born 1910
registered Alexander Gordon Ernest Dearn Clark, mmn DEARN
LM
John, sorry but not convinced 1911 is the right family as they also appear on 1901 just as a married couple, but as always I stand to be corrected
There is a family tree on Ancestry with Alfred and Beatrice
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Hi LM
Possible timeline
Beatrice Eleanor Dearn, registered Sep 1877, Croydon.
Baptized 2 Sep 1877, Mitcham. Parents Henry and Mary Ann. Father Leather Dresser.
Marriage, 7 August 1900 Mitcham
Alfred Whalebone, 25
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Beatrice Eleanor Dearn, 23, father Henry Dearn, Leather Dresser.
Death, March 1907 Croydon, Alfred Whalebone, age 32
Marriage, Sep qtr 1909, Croydon 2a 775
Alfred Ernest Clark + Beatrice Eleanor Whalebone
Another marriage, 27 June 1923, Morden
Frank Herbert Booth, 45, Widower
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Beatrice Eleanor Clark, Full, Widow, father Henry Dearn, Leather Dresser.
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Thanks jonw65
Turns out, back in June I contacted the owner of the tree containing Beatrice Dearn-Whalebone-Clark-Booth. BUT at the time we got our signals crossed and misunderstood the generations we were looking at. :-[
I now believe she is the descendent of Alfred Ernest and Beatrice, as you may have deduced from looking at her tree too. (is it okay to put info like that here?)
Also from her tree, Alfred NORMAN Ernest Clark was the son of Alfred and Beatrice.
I have contacted her again, but replies can be slow on Ancestry.
Great work
I can't thank everyone enough. Such great clues to follow up on
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I guess we need Banns to prove the Alfred Ernest who married Beatrice in 1909 was the same person as my Alfred Ernest, son of Joseph and Mary Ann?
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I just found a very vague Christening Index for a Kenneth Stuart PODGETT Clark, parents Alfred Ernest Clark and Beatrice Eleanor Clark.
That led me to find Kenneth Stuart Padgett Clark, born Apr Q 1914 Wandsworth, mmn Dearn
Also found his marriage and death.... the PADGETT in his name is the missing link to our family!!!!
Hooray!
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Well done!
I do think that Alfred Clark in Bexhill in 1901 is the right man. He got his postal appointment in late 1900, and perhaps his mother Mary Ann followed him down there afterwards. But she may perhaps have intended to stay there only for a while.
So sometime after returning to south London, Alfred's wife Mary dies. He leaves his two daughters in the orphanage (I hope they returned to him!) and marries again to a youngish widow, having more children. He has also changed occupation.
Alfred must then have died before 1923.
We are still left with the problem of when and where his mother Mary Ann died, not to mention who on earth she was.
John
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yes John, but I am over the moon happy with the progress we have made on descendants of Mary Ann and Joseph.
I will try to follow up on whatever happened to the Mary A Clark living in Bexhill in 1901. Perhaps remarried, when died etc.
I need some time to put all this info into my tree now.
Yesterday I came across a Mary A Clark who seemed to fit the age and widow - she died in Chatham, Kent. couldn't tie her in though.
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I wonder if she stayed in Sussex :-\
Deaths Jun qtr 1925
Clark , Mary A age 78
E.Preston 2b 412
Her address Clytha, St Botolphs Road, West Worthing - she was a widow - notice in paper re Probate
Worthing Gazette 15 October 1924 has an advert for a strong girl to help a nurse in attendance on an invalid lady at that address.
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Deaths Jun qtr 1925
Clark , Mary A age 78
E.Preston 2b 412
Probate calendar says died 20 May.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=clark&yearOfDeath=1925&page=7#calendar
She is not buried at either Broadwater or Durrington cemeteries
https://www.adur-worthing.gov.uk/burial-search/
There is a burial of a Mary Ann Clark, 23 May 1925 in Southwark :-\
Two others in grave. Deceased Online free index.
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I am being very caution about the Husband of Beatrice, PLEASE check me out but they are on 1901, he couldn't have been in 2 places at once, plus if you check births 1879 a year either side , from memory there are 4 Alfred Ernest Clark born
LM
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Bad news, sorry.
Probate Calendar 1922 has an entry for Thomas Clark of Clytha, 11 St Botolphs Road, Worthing, died 19 January 1922.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=clark&yearOfDeath=1922&page=8#calendar
March 1922, East Preston 2b 541, Thomas Clark, age 70.
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I am being very caution about the Husband of Beatrice
Hi LM
You are right of course to be cautious with the surname Clark. Have you looked at the 1911 census image to see how many years Alfred and Beatrice had been married?
Plus you found the baptism of Rita which had her father Alfred Ernest Clark as a private detective. There can't have been so many of those about.
John
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British Postal Service Appointment Books, on ancestry
October 1900
Alfred Ernest Clark, Postman, Bexhill on Sea
I really don't know if this is connected, but a birth
CLARK, RITA EILEEN DAVIS
Mother's Maiden Surname: DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 323
Then in the free index to 1911 census
Rita Clark, 4, in St George Hanover Square
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLJ-Q75
Possibly in the same institution as Gwendoline Clark "born Loughborough"?
Rita Eileen Davis Clark
Baptism date 02 May 1909
Father Alfred Ernest
Mother Mary
St Barnabas, Pimlico, Middlesex
Sorry I missed that this had already been posted
ADDED
Thanks John, it is good that we can eliminate that 1925 death ;D
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The marriage cert of Beatrice would be a very good idea
LM
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I would like to find out what happened to the little girls after 1911 ish
LM
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Rita Eileen Davis Clark
1938 living 17 Moyser Road Clapham along with Charles Frederick Flatt
LM
ADDED
1931 At same address
Charles Frederick Flatt
Mary Frances Flatt
Rita Eileen Davis Clark
1905 marriage between Charles Frederick Flatt and Mary Frances Clark
LM
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Mary F Flatt died 1933 aged 57 Wandsworth, looks as if Rita stayed at the same address
LM
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;D ;D ;D
Yes that is a package tied up with a bow! full circle on Rita, living with her aunt Mary Frances Flatt nee Clark
And then the Kenneth Stuart Padgett Clark, mmn Dearn father Alfred Ernest Clark b1877.
There are 2 Albert Ernest Clarks in my tree cousins, the other b1879.
You guys work so fast that I have not had time yet to revisit that 1911 census with son Alex, father's occupation detective.... need to catch my breath!!!!
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Can't find a death for Rita, sometimes shown with an E, or her sister Gwendoline , would have been interesting to have found a will for Charles Flatt
LM
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Death, full name from new GRO death index.
March 1918 Wandsworth 1d 714
Clark, Alfred Ernest
age 40
1918 electoral register
Battersea
Beatrice Eleanor Clarke at 14 Leathwaite Road (with others)
Burial at Wandsworth Cemetery, 3 April 1918
Alfred Ernest Clark
age 40
abode 14 Leathwaite Road Battersea
Image on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TP-LJ
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In 1901 daughters Mary Ann Frances Clark & Edith Clark are boarding with Caroline Brown at RG13/382 Folio 19 Page 30
Also there is Caroline's son Alfred Brown, who Edith married a year later.
Beginning to wonder if Mary Ann ever did return to London!
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I can't access newspapers but I wonder if his obituary was in the local paper listing the bereaved who attended
LM
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You are doing well John
LM
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I haven't seen anything else about Alfred's death yet, LM.
The National Burial Index has a burial for a Mary Ann Clark in Hollington, Sussex, in 1901. Age 54. I don't have the full details, but I think that definitely rules out the June qtr 1901 death in Battle, as Hollington is where the other possible Mary A Clark of similar age was living in the census.
So that one is out of the way.
John
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Did Charles F Flatt remarry?
Found a will dated 19/10/1955
Charles F Flatt of 9a Stockfield Road Streatham
to Grace Darling Flatt widow
Marriage 1944 Wandsworth to Grace D Nicholls
I then double checked electoral registers for the above address,
Charles F Flatt was living with Grace intermittently but he was there 1947 and 1951 for sure
Rita is no longer living with her uncle and I can't find her after about 1939
LM
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A Rita E Clarke married William F Bunce in December quarter 1943, Merthyr Tydfil.
Rita Eileen Bunce died aged 78 (Dob 15th June 1906) July quarter 1984, Ogwr district.
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Welcome Sakura77
That looks good,
Louisa Maud
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It seems as though the Nightingales must have been good friends to either Joseph or Mary when they married, and then to both of them and their family.
There was a nurse child in the Nightingale household in 1871, Thomas P Fox, 2, born Holloway.
Possible death in Edmonton, in the June quarter that year, of Thomas Powell Fox, 2.
Was he registered in March 1869, Islington, as Thomas Richard Fox? Mother's maiden surname blank.
Could the Nightingale family have done something similar previously? Is it possible that Mary Ann was taken in by them, becoming a kind of member of the family?
Can you tell me in your words about a "nurse child" please?
I'm assuming it might be similar to what we call Foster child with Foster parents here in Canada? Would they have been compensated? or just charitable?
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Do you want any info on Kenneth Stewart Padgett Clark?
born 20/03/1914 and died 25/02/1994 Lewisham
I also found a baptism for him
21/08/1918 Sawbridgeworth Herts father Alfred Ernest and mother Beatrice Eleanor Clark, perhaps they moved away during the war
LM
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Hi
I think examples of nurse children run from fairly well off parents in earlier times who are said to have sent out children, possibly sickly, into the country, through to those notorious baby farmers of the late 19th century. Payment would be involved.
In between, perhaps most often an illegitimate child who the mother couldn't look after being taken in, possibly for a short time. But some may have stayed with their new family for longer. So a kind of fostering.
If something like this happened with Mary Ann and the Nightingales, she may not have been, strictly speaking, a nurse child, she may have been adopted by them (unofficially of course) and no payment. Really don't know of course.
I just wondered whether having a nurse child in 1871, which showed that the Nightingales were prepared to take children into their home, might indicate that they may have done something similar before.
Sakura77, welcome to Rootschat!
What a splendid find for Rita, you have sorted her for us!
John
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I'm good on Kenneth S P Clark, thanks LM. finding plenty on him
He also had a brother Alfred Norman Ernest Clark, that I found, and his family
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I just wondered whether having a nurse child in 1871, which showed that the Nightingales were prepared to take children into their home, might indicate that they may have done something similar before.
Thank you John, yes I believe your thinking on the Nightingales must be correct.
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Hi Sakura
Thanks for jumping into the water with us!
my Rita Eileen Clark was baptized on May 2, 1906. Do you think the DOB of 15 Jun on the marriage you found is correct?
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Hi Sakura
Thanks for jumping into the water with us!
my Rita Eileen Clark was baptized on May 2, 1906. Do you think the DOB of 15 Jun on the marriage you found is correct?
You can check it with her date of birth on the 1939 register :)
ADDED She was baptised 02 May 1909
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my mistake, thanks for keeping an eye on me Rosie!!!
my Apology to Sakura77
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Alfred was a fast worker? Rita was baptized on 2 May 1909. do you think wife/mother Mary Davis was already deceased? I don't know exactly when first wife Mary died.
He married Beatrice in Jul Q of 1909
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Unfortunately we haven't solved the mystery of
Mary mmn Titterton
and
Mary mmn Davis
we have given you lot to think about!!
Wonder if Sukura is related somehow, gold star for jumping in with Rita, her marriage cert would be interesting , fathers name and witnesses
LM
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Hi, just to confirm I am not related. I recently joined Rootschat and was just scrolling through posts!
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I think you love this website Sakura77.
I come here whenever I am really stuck on a problem, and people find miraculous stuff for me :)
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Really well done, how did we all miss it
You will enjoy this forum Sakura, always plenty of interesting things pop up with a lots of friendly helpful people
Happy hunting
LM
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Thank you lucky girl and LM. I have used Rootschat before when my late husband was a member, but it's been a while.
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I don't know exactly when first wife Mary died.
It is another problem. In 1901 in Bexhill, Mary was 24, born London Paddington.
On her marriage to Alfred in June 1899 she said she was 23. Father Jeffrey Davis (deceased), Police Inspector.
Perhaps a clue as to why Alfred was interested in detection.
In 1881 they seem to be the family at the police station in Harefield, Middlesex
Jeffery Davis, 46, Police Inspector
Wife Eliza 43
Two children including a Mary, but she is 10 years older here!
Mary Ann H E Davis, 13, born Paddington Middlesex
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-76GW
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Mary Ann Hannah Eliza
Born 27/05/1867
Baptised18/08/1867
at St Mary's Paddington Green
of Jeffrey and Eliza Davis
Occ Police Constable
address Police Station
Paddington Police Station is within minutes of St Mary Paddington Green Church, it is on Edgware Road,
So now we have date of birth which won't really help as D of B's weren't listed on deaths published online
St Mary Paddington Green was where a lot of my own family were baptised or married
LM
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Well done, LM.
It is beginning to look as though Mary was 10 years older than she said!
1871 census in police cottages in Paddington
piece 7 folio 89 page 53
Jeffery Davis 36 Metrn. Police Sergeant
Eliza Davis 33
Ellen S Davis 9 - I think possibly Ellen Sarah Davis the marriage witness in 1899
Charlotte Davis 5
Mary A Davis 3
Jeffery Davis 11 months
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBD1-9ZJ
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MARR 08/07/1857
Christ church Marylebone
Jeffrey Davis occ Soldier father David
to
Eliza Monger? father Daniel
1871 Census
Police Cotts Dudley Grove
Jeffrey David 36 Met Police
Eliza 33
Ellen S
Charlotte 5
Mary Ann 3
Jeffrey 11 months
LM
ADDED
Met Police pension statement
Joined 1865
retired 1887 at a pension rate of £78 per annum
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I have really filled out this branch of my tree.
thanks to all of you!
I will be chatting with descendants of Joseph Padgett Clark and Mary Ann Titterton tonight and sharing all this with them. Across the planet, from Canada to Australia, distant distant cousins
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1891
Eliza Davis is a widow living with 2 daughters in Sydney Road Chelsea
looking death of Jeffrey, wonder if he retired through ill health
Am still intrigued with the surname of Titterton
LM
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looking death of Jeffrey, wonder if he retired through ill health
I have lost track on this post so don't know if you have already found them, but I think Ancestry has Met Police records
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Yes Rosie, they do, don't think we went down the Davis path
Jeffrey Davis died 1888 Kensington
This might help to find Mary
LM
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Have you considered the death of Mary Clark in Hatfield Hertfordshire, 1909 Hatfield aged 31
Marriage of Mary Eliza Gwendoline took place in Hatfield Hertfordshire 1919 to James T L Rumball, have you checked the Rumball family out on 1939?
LM
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Still doesn't solve the Mary TITTERTON 1 problem Mary solved and 1 to go, hopefully
LM
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Thanks LM
I have found enough chain of evidence to trace Gwendoline marrying James Rumball in Hatfield, Herts.
Poor Mary Ann Titterton though... she had so many children, and none of them took her in when her husband Joseph passed???? I just cant believe it.
But to go back to the beginning again and find her before her marriage....
The Nightingale family - who are so involved with this family - all the way back to the marriage in 1871.
If we think maybe Joseph and Mary Ann met in 1871 in Reigate, Surrey when he worked there as a cook?
I have found other Nightingales in Reigate, builders, just not Charles William Nightingale and Mary Jane, or Jennie or John.... but there must be a connection between them, the place, and the Nightingales in Tottenham, where the marriage took place? John Nightingale is a builder too
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Are you happy with the death of Mary in Hatfield?, I didn't think she would have been in that area till you mentioned the Rumball marriage, then to me, it all clicked in
The Nightingales feature so often there must a a connection
Some lead such sad lives, thank goodness times are so much better now
LM
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It did occur to me to look at Reigate census but to be honest it would be far to big a job, I don't have the CDs for that area, only London ones but if you think they met in Reigate she must be listed somewhere
LM
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It is a very tight timeline
2 May 1909 Baptism of Rita Eileen Davis Clark at St Barnabas Pimlico. I suspect this may have been when the girls were admitted to the St Barnabas orphanage in Pimlico.
Sep qtr 1909 Hatfield death of Mary Ann Clark
Sep qtr 1909 Croydon marriage of Alfred Ernest Clark
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unless Alfred and Mary had split up - after Rita is born in 1906?
Would Mary and girls go to Hatfield without Alfred?
Mary dies, girls go to orphanage in London? but why would Gwendoline then get married in Hatfield in 1919. What was the connection to Hatfield?
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The address on the baptism is Tooting Junction, down in South London, towards Mitcham and not far from Croydon.
Perhaps Mary was dead, hence the orphanage, and Alfred was preparing to marry Beatrice.
Can't be sure when Mary died.
John
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If the Gwendoline in the orphanage was put into a girls school she might have been in service in the Hatfield area, we may never know
LM
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Thanks again for trying LM and John! and everyone else who contributed.
I will try to investigate a little more on my own, something may turn up some day.
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Don't give up on Mary Titterton
Happy hunting
LM