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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: nikitah on Monday 11 January 21 14:30 GMT (UK)
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Hi, trying to return to my Elder tree ,
I have Charles Elder born Resolis, 14/ 3/ 1828, Father John Elder, Mother Mary Paterson,
John is a MEALER at Agnes Hill,
Looking mealer up tells me , a mealer is " a person rooming at one place and boarding at another" , is there another definition?.
When John married Mary Paterson he was said to be a servant at Calmaduthy, Mary was of Resolis. My question is, was he from another area? or was mealer a description for some one in farming ? . Keep safe nikitah.
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A few online dictionaries say
a person eating but not lodging at a boarding house
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Looking at the 1841 Census transcription on FreeCEN-
Agneshill , Resolis , Ross & Cromarty.
John Elder 50 ag. lab born Ross & Cromarty
Jane(?) Paterson 40 unknown
Jane Elder 20 unknown
Isabel Elder 12 unknown
Donald Elder 4 b. Ross & Cromarty
ev
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Scots: Mealler, a cottager who lives rent-free in return for bringing so much waste-land into production each year, eventually a number of these plots were amalgamated into a farm or added to a farm & let. Mailler same thing, mail=rent.
Can also just mean a tenant farmer.
Skoosh.
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Skoosh is probably right.
Looking at census occupations which have been transcribed as "mealer", most seem to be mis-transcriptions of dealer, anealer, master, etc. "Fish mealer" is one of the few that seem genuine.
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In 1851 John Elder, 59, labourer, born Resolis, is in Resolis with wife Mary, a son and a daughter. So it would appear that he was not from another area.
If a mealer is someone who lodges in one house and gets his meals in another, there's no reason why he would necessarily be in farming. A lodger in a city might also make a similar arrangement. His relationship to the head of the household might be mealer, but his occupation could be clerk, or shopman, of factory hand, or student, or anything else.
It does seem slightly odd, if he was only a mealer in a particular house, that he would be recorded there and not in the house where he was lodging, because the census was supposed to record people in the household where they spent the night.
Edit: I had not seen Skoosh's post, which makes absolute sense. 'Mealler' isn't in my dictionary :)
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It was back-breaking work for little return and at the end of the day the mealler lost the plot and started afresh somewhere else if he was fit enough or had a son.
Largely how, generation after generation, & plot by plot, the big farms in NE Scotland were created. A cotter wouldn't have a Clydesdale for the work either as it required feeding that the cotter never had.
Skoosh.
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Where does the "mealer" reference come from? The baptism?
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Meal/Mail rent, blackmail, protection money taken to prevent cattle being stolen .
Skoosh.
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I'm thinking that if it's from the 1828 baptism it must surely be his occupation, not his lodging arrangements.
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Thank you shaun. I like that one scoosh. Anyway I'll try not to confuse myself, easier said than done. Mary Paterson was born/baptised 1792 , so I'm looking for John Elder born about the same time and place the one that fits is John Elder 1792 Resolis Father John Elder, mealer Mother Isobel McKeddy my only problem with this is John Elder and Mary Paterson didn't name a child Isobel. 1, Jane 1820, the mother is said to be HELEN but I have no doubt it's Mary. The second child is also Jane 1822, Jane after Marys mother Jean Bremner. 3, John 1824 . 4, Donald 1826, after Marys father. 5, and mine Charles 1828 , don't know where this comes from, 6 Margaret 1830. 7, Donald. all born Resolis. any help solving this will be much appreciated. stay home stay safe. nikitah.
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It's never safe to assume that the only possible candidate is the right one. There are so many people whose baptisms are missing from the surviving records that you can never be sure.
If they followed the naming pattern you'd expect John's parents to be John and Margaret.
Have you got the original baptisms of all the children? Are the witnesses named, and if so do they offer any clues?
But I think you are in luck. I see that Margaret Elder, mother's maiden surname McKeddie, died in Rosemarkie in 1873 aged 80.
In the 1871 census Margaret Elder, aged 83, is living in the household of her nephew Donald Elder, 34, his widowed mother Mary Elder, 78 and sister Jane, 50, all born in Resolis.
So I think you can indeed be fairly confident that your John Elder was indeed the son of John Elder and Isobel McKeddy. Get a copy of Margaret's death certificate just to be sure.
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There is an Isabel Elder age 12 on that 1841 Census transcription(reply #2).
ev
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@ nikitah, is that Belmaduthy? Knockbain parish.
Skoosh.
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Thank you for all your replies, as usual you've all come up trumps. Forfarin I'll go and get that death certificate. skoosh sorry for the little c ;D , I'll go and check that spelling then get back to you. Ev your right I missed that. catch you all in a bit , keep safe, nikitah.
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Skooosh it doesn't look like a B I would say a C and either - a or - o-or - u, following, definitely Knockbain. Forfarian I got the death certificate and its as you said, sadly she died in the poorhouse a pauper. I also have the deaths for the only 2 John Elders in Resolis that fit the time line , possibly father and son, as you know they don't give much detail . 1, John Elder died at G---- of Raddery on the fifteenth and was buried at Rosemarkie on the 16 October 1841 in the 79th year of his age. 2, John Elder tenant at Wester Raddery died there on the 31st of May1821 and buried in the church yard at Rosemarkie in the 54th year of his age . all from Scotlanspeople. keep safe, nikitah
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Also on 1841 FreeCEN -
Agneshill , Resolis , Ross & Cromarty.
Isabel Elder 50
Margaret Elder 40
(Widow) Elder 80
All born Ross & Cromarty.
ev
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When John married Mary Paterson he was said to be a servant at Calmaduthy
is that Belmaduthy? Knockbain parish.
it doesn't look like a B I would say a C and either - a or - o-or - u, following, definitely Knockbain
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.57629&lon=-4.26385&layers=5&b=1 shows Belmaduthy in the parish of Knockbain. There is nowhere similar in Knockbain beginning Ca... or Co... or Cu... in the index to the Ordnance Survey Name Books.
Why not post the extract that is difficult to read and let us have a look at it?
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Thank you Ev, so that cant be her husband John who died in October 1841. back to the drawing board for that.
Forfarian, we have been here before, I haven't mastered posting extracts, so like before if it's ok with you I'll send it via P M to you , once again I thank you all. nikitah
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Yes of course.
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Sorry just had another look and magnified it , Skoosh i's a B ;D your right. Thank you all again at least with all your help I'm another generation back, I have noticed that children born to John Elder and Isobel McKeddy have one baptised at Cromarty in 1784 named Isobel, then there's a big gap to John 1792, Donald 1795 and Barbra 1799 these are at Resolis, more digging to do. When Mary Paterson died in 1871 she was the widow of John. Keep safe nikitah.
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This post isn't going to help you much with your current query, but as I haven't had many people researching Agneshill, I thought I would put my twopenny-worth into the ring.
My MacKenzies lived there from before the 1841 census and left in 1891. According to the 1841 census, they seemed to have lived a few doors down from your Elders.
I don't know whether you have visited the area but here's a photo which I took about ten years ago on my last visit. There were only the remains of a couple of former dwellings there.
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Thank you that's lovely and much appreciated. I see you also have Matheson's, Charles Elder married Marjory/ May Matheson and their son John became a police constable in Glasgow he married Jessie Rose at Boleskine Stratherrick Jessie died at Dingwall in 1914 and he later married Katherine MacKenzie , he died in 1930, you never know they could be connected, I think I traced these Mackenzie's to the Applecross area but Katherine was born Ross and Cromarty keep safe nikitah.
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Thanks for your reply.
My MacKenzies were from Cromarty and lived in Resolis until the early 1900s.
My Mathesons originated from Lochcarron/Applecross.
I haven't come across any Elders in either family.