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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: smithemnk on Sunday 24 January 21 22:55 GMT (UK)

Title: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Sunday 24 January 21 22:55 GMT (UK)
New to boards so sorry if I'm not doing this right but here I go.

Edward Keay/Kaye was born to Caroline Keay/Kaye 1853 (Christened 20 Feb 1853).  No father on birth certificate that I could find.

Trying to find the parents for Caroline Keay/Kaye.  I believe that she is sometimes referred to as Caroline Dodd Keay or Caroline Dodd.  I have heard rumors that her parents were Thomas Keay and Sarah Dodd and that she was born in 1830 but I don't have any records or confirmation of anything.

Would anyone be able to help and thanks!

Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 24 January 21 23:27 GMT (UK)
Where are they on the 1861 census?
Where does she say she was born?
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Sunday 24 January 21 23:51 GMT (UK)
1851 - Listed as Caroline Key, servant  Born Hampton
1853 - Listed as Caroline Kaye, mother of Edward Kayeon birth certificate
1854 - Listed as Caroline Dodd when married Richard Williams. 
1861 - Listed as Caroline Williams  Born Welshampton

I know Richard Williams is Edward's step-father thus the confusion over Kaye/Keay/Key/Dodd
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:07 GMT (UK)
And brother John Dodd age 28 b Welshampton is with them in 1871.

Have you got the marriage certificate?  Who does it say her father was?
I can see the banns notice in Flintshire, but the marriage is registered Ellesmere.  Can’t see an image for that online


Added ..to be more accurate John is Richard’s brother in law.
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:15 GMT (UK)
Birth reg of Mary

WILLIAMS, MARY       KEAY 
GRO Reference: 1855  J Quarter in ELLESMERE  Volume 06A  Page 665

It is confusing!
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:19 GMT (UK)
John’s birth?  No mother’s maiden name

DODD, JOHN       - 
GRO Reference: 1843  S Quarter in ELLESMERE UNION  Volume 18  Page 53
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Monday 25 January 21 00:20 GMT (UK)
I just have the Banns notice too I'm afraid, I can't find a marriage certificate for them.

It is very confusing....  I have notes everywhere trying to keep it straight.  And then in another part of my husband's lineage it's about the same but that's a post for another day

Births out of wedlock seem to be the norm for his family as well as name changes out of no where
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:26 GMT (UK)
You might have to order the marriage cert?
Assuming this is it.

Marriages Dec 1854   (>99%)
Brofal    Martha        Ellesmere    6a   1393   
Dodd    Caroline        Ellesmere    6a   1393    
Meredith    John        Ellesmere    6a   1393    
Williams    Richard        Ellesmere    6a   1393    
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:33 GMT (UK)
Just throwing things into the air to see how they land  ;D

What happened to the August 22 baptism 1830 of Caroline daughter of Thomas and Sarah GROOM.
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Monday 25 January 21 00:45 GMT (UK)
I didn't look for the birth under yet another surname.  It fits the timeline but how to make the link between Groom or Dodd/Keay?
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 00:51 GMT (UK)
1828 7th September    Edward GROOM-DOD. Baptised son of Thomas & Sarah

1833 26th May  William Edward GROOM-DOD Baptised son of Thomas & Sarah

1839 29th December John GROOM -DODD. Baptised son of Thomas and Sarah

That’s all showing in Shropshire baptisms on FindMyPast
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Monday 25 January 21 00:57 GMT (UK)
Ok there's the Dodd, but how did the Keay get in?
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 01:18 GMT (UK)
I wonder if at some point Sarah Dodd/Groom married/shacked up with someone Keay?

Can you see Thomas & Sarah or any of the children in 1841?
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 25 January 21 01:30 GMT (UK)
Just to make life interesting there are these two births

GROOM, EDWARD       - 
GRO Reference: 1841  M Quarter in ELLESMERE UNION  Volume 18  Page 59
GROOM, JOHN       - 
GRO Reference: 1838  J Quarter in ELLESMERE UNION  Volume 18  Page 58


I had been assuming it was Thomas Groom and Sarah Dodd, but perhaps it’s the other way around?  It does seem odd to have at least three baptisms with apparently two surnames without the priest forcibly marrying them.   
Title: Re: St Michael's and All Angels Welshampton (maybe?) - Caroline Dodd Keay
Post by: smithemnk on Monday 25 January 21 01:41 GMT (UK)
I can't find a 1841 census with Thomas Groom and a Sarah.  Nor a Sarah Dodd with a Thomas.

Ordering a birth certificate, hopefully it will clear something up.  Or maybe as you said, it was a forced marriage and done under the table.

Imagine the bible for whomever was keeping records, there are probably lines going everywhere.